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Complete "Breaking of the Fellowship" NZSO


Gollum Cat

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7 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

Dull, uninspired,  mediocre and repetitious. 

 

Sad really, considering your early posting brilliance.

 

Nothing lasts forever, my friend!

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Stefan please stop with the abusive language, it us completely unnecessary and inappropriate. Thank you.

 

For what?

15 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

Often? Gkyver recent outbursts do not constitute often.

 

Often enough...

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I vividly recall beseeching Doug during our meeting over Guinness in IL seven years ago to please, PLEASE, PLEASE include the alternate 'Breaking' on the RA (which, back then, was still an unknown quantity). Clearly, my arguments weren't persuasive enough...that, or there wasn't enough Guinness involved. ;)

 

Seriously, I recognize that the selection of music for the RA was for Shore to decide, likely with input from Doug. They chose what they thought was the most interesting music to illustrate both how Shore arrived at the final pieces, and what some of his earlier intentions were. The latter pieces often made it to the recording floor, i. e., are fully realised compositions. These are, to me, the most interesting. The alternate (earlier) 'Breaking' is one of those, as is, in part, 'Sammath Naur' and the 'Prologue' (both of them, actually). And since Georg mentioned '30 seconds of alternate stuff in Flight to the Ford'...WHY, OH WHY, WASN'T I GIVEN ANOTHER 30 SECONDS OF CHORAL RINGWRAITH MUSIC FOR FRODO'S VISION ON AMON HEN???!!! Because that one, too, was mentioned over said Guinness...

 

Long story short, Georg and I remain vexed, and the world continues to spin. C'est la vie, celery.

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6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Nothing lasts forever, my friend!

 

For what?

 

Often enough...

 

For not sounding like a bitter arsehole maybe.

 

I dare you to count my rants here the Last 7 months, that also qualify as such, meaning no arguments. I don't insult anybody (rarely), while every posts you made here in forever seems to either call people blind fanboys, idiots, or are just spam.

37 minutes ago, SafeUnderHill said:

Thinking about it now, I actually think CD is a better format for the alternates. It's the standard music format that we all use for our libraries. Using DVDs would require ripping to get the tracks out, and is getting towards the dedication required to get some of the pieces anyway from other methods (cues from games, appendices).

 

A separate CD release with two discs of pure alternate recordings, plus maybe a DVD of the interview with mockups, in the CR style, was always the better option.

 

And yes, Doug's book is directly linked to the rarities, but since when does a book need to include the CD it's discussing? The book also discusses the CRs track by track, and nobody would think those should be included.

And the book is still available, while the CRs are not.

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3 hours ago, SafeUnderHill said:

 

That sounds good. I'm not sure whether I'd prefer mockups on the DVD or CD, I think they're fascinating but whether I'd want to listen to them regularly is something I don't know.

 

I think it's simple really. Mockups don't really need audio quality, so leave the stuff you want to listen to in high quality and in your car etc on CD, and leave the mockups on DVD, in a sort of library system, to browse through. I don't think Smart TVs were a Big thing back then yet, but these days, with a Smart TV, DVD is a good option to present these things.

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19 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

I think it's simple really. Mockups don't really need audio quality, so leave the stuff you want to listen to in high quality and in your car etc on CD, and leave the mockups on DVD, in a sort of library system, to browse through. I don't think Smart TVs were a Big thing back then yet, but these days, with a Smart TV, DVD is a good option to present these things.

 

I kind of agree on this. Back when TRA came out, someone connected with the production (not Doug) said, rather patronisingly IMO, that this was a set that could be listened to like an album. I think the inclusion of the mockups somewhat takes away from that. I found them curious (at most) to listen to them once or twice, but not as regular listening.

 

The ideal situation I think would have been 2 CDs - one for presenting all of the major alternates (which could be listened to as a proper album), and another for interviews, mockups, and any other sundries. I hesitate think about what was removed in order to fit everything on one CD.

 

I know Doug tweeted to suggest that he was working on reissues, but is this likely to be anything other than a straight repressing?

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4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I know Doug tweeted to suggest that he was working on reissues, but is this likely to be anything other than a straight repressing?

 

I doubt that any changes are going to be made to these reported re-issues.

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I'd love to be proven wrong of course, but I doubt we'll get a different version of the LOTR scores commercially released while Shore is alive.

 

(By different version I mean a different musical program, not packaging differences)

 

But one can dream of a definitive set!

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A new musical program would require a new edition of The Music of The Lord of the Rings Films!!!

 

Much of the book is organized around the CR releases' tracklists/editing.

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51 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Well, if you think about it the LOTR book could already be revised now, to reflect the fact that some one-time passages became "themes" in The Hobbit scores....

 

Maybe we could get something like this:

 

2016 Q4: AUJ CR

2017 Q2: DOS CR

2017 Q4: TBOTFA CR + The Music of TH book w/ Rarities Archive

2018 Q1: FOTR CR version 2

2018 Q2: TTT CR version 2

2018 Q3: ROTK CR version 2

2018 Q4: The Music Of The LOTR book version 2 (no more Rarities Archive because each CR 2.0 has their own disc of extra material)

 

The timing's just about right too.  FOTR CR came out 4 years after the movie, which is the anniversary we're approaching for AUJ (if you can believe it).  Although I'm not sure they'd release all three CRs for The Hobbit so close together, but who knows!

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My thought on The Hobbit is that if they're going to do it, they need to strike while the iron is still lukewarm.  To the general public, The Hobbit is done.  I don't hear anybody talking about the movies any more - I hear more people still talking about LOTR, the last of which came out over 12 years ago.  The fact that Hobbit CRs or a book about the music are considered viable is a surprise to me.

 

(a happy surprise if and when they do happen, but a surprise)

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2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

The timing's just about right too.  FOTR CR came out 4 years after the movie, which is the anniversary we're approaching for AUJ (if you can believe it).  Although I'm not sure they'd release all three CRs for The Hobbit so close together, but who knows!

 

The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces.

I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant.

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I wonder if Doug will be able to assess/comment on whether Shore's compositional approach to Middle-earth after AUJ changed/was modified by the change in orchestrational, conductory and recording duties.

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4 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces.

I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant.

Well we know pf at least a few alts for DOS.

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Off the top of my head, notable unreleased BOTFA music would include a sizeable chunk of Fire and Water, the fabled funeral composition, and apparently a fair bit of interesting music from the war chariot scene we have yet to hear (I'm guessing there might be a fair bit of unheard battle music). I guess there would be around 15-20 minutes worth there alone.

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Let's hope that we are not seriously let down by any future releases as we have in our salivating desire for unreleased music in this thread painted pretty high expectations for possible LotR and the Hobbit releases. Nothing bad about dreaming but we tend to take such things as the measuring stick against which we will compare any release we might eventually get.

 

As I have said before the Music of LotR Films book was built around the CRs (curiously there is no mention of this relation in the book), the upcoming Music of the Hobbit Films has to be a bit differently structured as we do not have any CRs to connect it with, not unless they suddenly plan to release such things to go with it. Thus I was left wondering how will the track-by-track analysis of the music in the films be dealt with. Will the 2 disc OST sets be some kind of guideline for such text or is the score discussed as it is appears in the film.

 

And I am sure there will be plenty of rarities for the Hobbit scores beyond the still unreleased tracks from the scores and the EE stuff on top of that.

 

 

10 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

The only one of the three that probably has plenty alternates and unreleased stuff is AUJ, I don't think the other two have that much to go through, it's probably just a case of mastering unedited and additional pieces.

I think DoS and BotFA remained more or less as Shore wrote it, anything done by Pope on the podium was probably not that significant.

I might be misremembering but wasn't e.g. the Mirkwood material with all the strange percussion and sound design-y elements at least partially concocted on the recording stage when they started to play with the weird sounds things like bowed cymbals could make.

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The choir section consists of pianissimo whispers with the instruction to repeat quickly and quietly (women initially, later joined by men).  There is a specific choral text in there if you listen for it. 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Ah yes, "The Elven Road"

Well it is not that obvious to me. Where did you figure that one out? Is the text available somewhere?

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No that I know of.

 

Hopefully Doug's book will have all the choral texts and their translations

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

No that I know of.

 

Hopefully Doug's book will have all the choral texts and their translations

Well if it follows along the lines of the previous book then that is more than probable. :) 

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7 hours ago, Incanus said:

 

Let's hope that we are not seriously let down by any future releases

 

 

Not gonna happen to me, as I'm not expecting any future releases (other than Doug's book), nor the allegedly upcoming re-issues of the CRs to be any different from the original pressings.

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3 minutes ago, Kühni said:

 

Not gonna happen to me, as I'm not expecting any future releases (other than Doug's book), nor the allegedly upcoming re-issues of the CRs to be any different from the original pressings.

Good, good. :) 

 

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Yes a pessimist is never disappointed.

 

Not that you are one Kühni.

 

And I think Finns share that "don't expect much" attitude with Germans.

 

My hopes are that we might get 2 discs of rarities with the new book. Fingers crossed!

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Finland has one advantage. It isn't Germany. Which in this day and age is of considerable importance!

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I think the rarities disc was just fine, and I listen to it as much as I listen to the rarities at the end of an expanded release - which is to say, infrequently.  The music on the albums is more than enough for me.

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On 18/07/2016 at 10:37 PM, Kühni said:

I wonder if Doug will be able to assess/comment on whether Shore's compositional approach to Middle-earth after AUJ changed/was modified by the change in orchestrational, conductory and recording duties.

 

I would say no.  Shore's compartmentalisation of composition, orchestration and recording allowed the composition approach and general process to remain consistent throughout the trilogy.  There were differences in the timescales involved and the linearity of scoring, but that's to be expected when dealing with three fluid films and a director with no concept of picture lock.

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That's why the presentation of the score especially in BOTFA is so abysmal in the film. Of course if a composer writes his score months before picture is locked, and records it weeks before, the end result will be awful with PJ.

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So how then was FotR such a resounding success (the relatively small amount of tracking and micro-editing notwithstanding)? Beginner's luck?

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In general the LOTR series was so much more thought out from the beginning, right?  With PJ taking over at the last minute from del Toro and the pretty last minute decision to make it a trilogy instead of just two movies, they were makin' that shit up as they went along.

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