Star Trek Beyond SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

[Giftheck 916]

2 hours ago, Blumenkohl said:

I still don't get the villains motivations. I kinda went, "that's it?"

 

At least a better Villain plot would have been to have Baddy see himself in shard of glass, moment of humanity, tear up, and sacrifice himself to undo the havoc he wrought.

 

I disagree. In this case, having a 'villain's redemption' moment would have weakened an already-fairly-weak villain.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

8 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said:

The photograph of the original cast at the end made me tear up a little.

 

Me too. Memories of better Trek movies!

 

I see no one hates this movie yet.  The harshest opinions are like mine, that it was just fine. Middle-of-the-road for a Trek movie.  Of course it really is excellent for a Summer popcorn action-sci-fi.  I don't want to downplay what an accomplishment it is to craft a well thought out, personable, exciting, likable blockbuster these days when most big movies are absolute shit.

[Brónach 1,301]

So it's better than TFA?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

No. Not even a little bit close to it.

[MedigoScan 324]

I'd honestly say they're about equal really

but then I was never 100 % wowed by TFA

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

in the end i will probably rate them about evenly. Though TFA was more of s redemption and a rebirth after the awful prequels.

 

Like most modernblockbusters Beyond is incapable of showing a realistic fightscene. Characters fall from 5 meters on top of each other or a glass table and get up to continue the fight, even though their spines should have been shattered.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Beyond doesn't even come close to TFA's brilliant character work (especially with Rey, Finn, and Ren obviously), which was that movie's greatest strength.

[Wojo 2,453]

Are there any post credits scenes? I will be seeing this today and the folks I'm with won't want to stay if there's nothing after the credits. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, you can leave right after the memorial credits for Nimoy and Anton Yelchin!

 

Or stay if you are a fan of Rihanna.

 

 

Saw the film again just now, this might be super geeky, but the round door Krall and Uhura look through as Ensign Syl is being dissolved looks very much styled like an airlock from Deep Space Nine.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Apparently Takei isn't happy about them making Sulu gay because it changes canon, but I think the alternate universe allows them to change a few minor character details at their discretion, as long as they keep the heart and spirit of the characters. I get that they did it to show a more realistic crew sexuality and not all having heterosexuals males waltzing around.

 

I think it was well revealed too, as instead of Sulu saying something like "he's hot," to a male character, they just instead had a nice little throwaway scene of Sulu being reunited with presumably his husband and adopted kid. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And apparently those scenes were shot in Dubai, and they couldnt hire an asian actor from there willing to play a gay man. So they cast one of the production crew instead.  This shows that things like these, while almost commonplace here, arent everywhere else.

 

That's why it sort of matters to do these things.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So is that what "Sulu" has to do in this one? He was by far the most useless and miscast.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

have you seen the new films? Cho is good in it. They all are actually.

[Trent B 337]

Just got home from seeing the movie and loved it.  The little girl Sulu picked up and hugged...obviously his daughter Demora. 

 

Anyways the film definitely is a step up from Into Darkness (which I liked PARTS of).  I agree with what others said that it had a TOS feeling to it.  Kinda got misty eyed when Spock found the photo of the Prime Universe crew in Ambassador Spock's belongings. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

If I didn't like the first two, will I still not like this one?

I didnt. I really was expecting to like it. The reviews all said it was. They lied. 

10 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

So is that what "Sulu" has to do in this one? He was by far the most useless and miscast.

I think Simon Pegg is. Whatever Mr. Scott embodied Pegg is unable to channel.

[Wojo 2,453]

13 hours ago, Nick Tatopoulos's Beret said:

So is that what "Sulu" has to do in this one? He was by far the most useless and miscast.

He flies the NX-01 prototype off the cliff and into space, making up for not punching the Enterprise into warp in the first one. But before that and after, he does very little, other than being in the chair when Kirk orders evacuation and holding his husband lovingly. 

[Giftheck 916]

Here's a little thing: the tie-in comics for the reboot series are canonically in-line with the movies, which means NCC-1701-A is actually the third Federation ship to bear the name Enterprise. Robert April captained the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 prior to its decomissioning to be replaced with a newer NCC-1701, the ship we see in the films.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He also heroically stands his ground when Krall says that without struggle you cannot know who you really are.

 

Sulu- "You have no idea who we really are."

 

What a hero!

[crocodile 7,978]

I wrote a film review for The Digital Fix.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Check the other thread for some suggestions of revisions you need to address.

[Brónach 1,301]

22 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Beyond doesn't even come close to TFA's brilliant character work (especially with Rey, Finn, and Ren obviously), which was that movie's greatest strength.

 

Shit, what do I have to do to see a space-fantasy-sci-fi-action film that I like?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

22 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Beyond doesn't even come close to TFA's brilliant character work (especially with Rey, Finn, and Ren obviously), which was that movie's greatest strength.

 

I like them, but Kirk, Spock and McCoy are far more memorable and iconic characters.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Trek's trio is certainly more iconic (for now...), but in terms of comparing the writing for these two sets of characters in these two specific films, TFA is better IMO.

 

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

 

Shit, what do I have to do to see a space-fantasy-sci-fi-action film that I like?

 

Duh, watch The Force Awakens and Star Trek Beyond!

[Jay 37,267]

I'm sure many of you will enjoy reading this

 

Here’s Where the Franklin Fits in the STAR TREK Timeline

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Interesting.

 

The biggest failure of the film is trying to conceal the identity of it's villain until very late in the film. It actually shifts the motivation of Krall from an alien opposed to the encrouchment of the Federation, the UN theme Simon Pegg mentioned in an interview to a human soldier who was there for the birth of the Rederation, but feels it had abandoned him after the Franklin was lost.

 

Both motivations are actually potentially interesting. The Federation seen as not an alliance of countless cultures, but a vast homogenous alliance, forcing it's laws and way of life upon cultures. That is actually rather relevant right now and could have made for something interesting.

 

the Franklin story could have worked too if they didnt try to use smoke and mirrors. An early Federation ship gets lost due to some worm hole displacement and it's crew end up on a world far from explored space, But they don't know that and slowly assume the Federation doesnt care and will just leave them there to die. Captain Edison slowly becomes enraged and him and his few remaining crew members vow revenge for what was done to them. granted this has been done several times in the Trek movies, but still....

 

Both lots could have worked but for some reason there's this idiotic idea that a story needs to have a dramatic revelation that will shock the audience. It disnt work at all for Into Darkness, and it doesnt do that much here.

 

Because of this there are a few things that remain unclear if you just go by the film.

 

1- is Kalara (the female who betrayed Kirk) part of the original Franklin crew? It's not stated outright but I think so. The film pauses briefly on the image of her file in Commodore Paris' office.

 

2- Krall has characters in full body armour as foot soldiers. Are they drones or lifeforms. They fly the "bees"'that attack the Enterprise making me suggest they are drone robots.

It also might explain why Uhuru manages to fight off several of these guys wearing metal or composite suits....

 

3- What exactly happened to the Franklin. Scotty suggests that they were caught in a wormhole and thrown in the nebula, but the film gives no info on it. Is that how all the other races got there?

 

4-Jaylah cleverly uses holograms to disguise the Franklin. But Krall would have known where it crashed. It was his ship. Would he not actually have taken a look after it had apparently disappeared? Maybe he no longer cared I guess.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

And I wish that Krall didn't speak so much in sweeping generalizations that don't really make a lot of sense.  Like "Strength is born from chaos so I want to put the galaxy into chaos so..that..others...will be strong? or something?"  If they had concentrated on keeping his explanations more personal it'd have been better.

[Jay 37,267]

That female alien who betrayed Kirk wasn't part of hte original Franklin crew - all of that crew would be dead since it crashed 100+ years ago.  Only Krall is still alive because he sucked the energy out of lifeforms who crashed there to stay young.  I thought the idea was that that female alien was from one such ship that he lured into the planet and he had sucked up most of her crewmates, but she was allowed to go out to and trap The Enterprise in return for lettin the rest of her crew go

 

 

Yea good point about the hologram thing... you'd think Krall would indeed know exactly where it was.  Maybe it would have made more sense for her hideout to be a different ship than the one Krall was the captain of.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, but they could not, or it would have ruined "The Surprise" (insert dramatic music).

 

Actually Edison as a character to spent his whole life fighting and is then forced to give it up and join a fleet of peace could have made for an interesting story. The soldier who cannot adjust to the peace of the Federation.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Well there was the henchmen who fought Jaylah and killed her father.  I think he was supposed to have been the Franklin's first officer.

 

But yeah the female who served as the bait to get the Enterprise to the planet I think was supposed to have been an alien Krall kidnapped and I guess had developed Stockholm Syndrome or whatever.

[Jay 37,267]

So Krall let a few other peeps also suck hte life out of people?  Damn

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The film actually doesnt make that clear either. Did he kill most of his crew? I think at some point he vows vengeance upon the Federation for abandoning him and his crew. Wouls he avenge the crew he killed?

 

Ok i just compared the actress who played Kalara with the pic of the female crewmember next to Edison as Commodore Paris closes their files. It looks like the same actress to me. Meaning Kalara was part of the Franklin crew.

 

She did say "Do you believe every sad story you hear?" to Kirk, suggesting it was a lie.

 

 

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I'm sure many of you will enjoy reading this

 

Here’s Where the Franklin Fits in the STAR TREK Timeline

 

I came to the same basic conclusions driving home after the movie. 

[Jay 37,267]

Hmmm, this makes less sense.  So it wasn't just the captain of The Franklin that was ok with straight up murdering innocents to stay young forever, but other of his crew too?  Weird.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I thought it was just the one guy, but maybe I wasn't following the plot correctly.  It's a pretty common trope, right?  The main henchman who's the main baddie's most faithful believer?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, who said he was murdering his own people? Jahlay claimed that Krall kept luring or trapping ships to the nebula searching for the artifact. The fact that Krall and the two others looks so alien suggests they have been feeding of alien lives for a long time.

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

I thought it was just the one guy, but maybe I wasn't following the plot correctly.  It's a pretty common trope, right?  The main henchman who's the main baddie's most faithful believer?

 

It really isnt told with much clarity.

[Jay 37,267]

That's exactly my point.

 

They are murdering INNOCENT people to stay young for 100+ years.  If one crazy guy is doing it OK, but multiple members of the crew are all cool with it?  That's weird.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well in his final log Edison says that "Of the crew, only three remain", meaning him, Manas (the one who killed Jaylah's father) and Kalara. The rest were all dead apparently.

How or how long that final log entry was made after the crash isnt clear.

 

This is actually very similar to Insurrection, which had exiles from the Baku world trying to prolong their lives with technology which changed their appearance.

 

[Jay 37,267]

Ah OK, so the three of them agreed that murdering innocents was cool as long as they can get their revenge one day.  Alrighty then.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why does that surprise you?

 

Btw, I had to see the film twice and find a cam download to actually figure all this out....

[Jay 37,267]

On 7/22/2016 at 0:11 AM, Jay said:

I realized something: I am pretty sure the film makes no references to the events of STID at all!

You could watch this film right after ST09 and not miss a thing at all.

 

On 7/22/2016 at 3:35 AM, Gistech said:

 

Well, the Enterprise bears the refit seen at the end of Into Darkness. Given you clearly see the configuration of the Enterprise at the end of 2009 is different, it would raise questions as to where these changes came from and why.

 

Speaking of which, the last film introduced quite a few changes to the Constitution Class (new impluse engine, altered nacelle struts and nacelle fins). Does the Enterprise-A bear any further (visible) changes?

 

I never would have noticed anything you are talking about in a million years

 

So other than supposedly some changes to the look of the ship or whatever, the film really doesn't reference STID at all, eh?  I wonder if that was a conscious decision / directive, or if it just happened?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, the only thing that's in any way a continuation of Into Darkness is the fact that they or on a five year mission. (Carol Marcus has apparently left ship though)

You could watch this film right after the 09 one (which i did) and not miss a thing. It's pretty standalone anyway, though it does need the 2009 film to explain why young Spock is mourning old Spock. If you havent seen it you'd probably wonder what the hell that was about.

[Jay 37,267]

Yea, I was just wondering if Paramount told Simon Pegg to not have any references to STID in it, or if it just kinda ended up happening that way (as in, there ended up being no reason to have to reference it).

 

I actually thinking having Carol Marcus in the film would have improvied thing.  She could have been stationed at Yorktown and had a scene with Kirk in the beginning of the movie, as extra motivation for him to want to retire from captaining and settle down there.  And then she could have appeared at the end and been a part of the party scene and stuff.  I dunno.

 

I wonder if Alice Eve wasn't interested in returning, or if they never even asked her...

[Wojo 2,453]

Wasn't there a line about an ancient civilization and technology on the planet (Altamid)? My assumption is that Edison used it to prolong his life, inheriting hatred and malice inherent to the aliens, which turned him into Krall. His remaining crew also sold their humanity to stay alive.

 

What's less clear is where the millions of bee ships and soldiers came from. Franklin crew? Trapped ships? Natives? Androids? 

 

It's okay, we don't have to know. It's the Shinzon scenario. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The ancient civilization also left very sophisticated mining technology using drones.

[Jay 37,267]

Does Justin Lin do director's cuts?  Maybe there will be a longer cut where things are explained better on home video.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm getting a bit tired of directors cuts to be honest. Just release the film proper in the cinema!

[Faleel 5,326]

But, but, limitations! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What limitations?

 

 

What limitations?

 

 

[Faleel 5,326]

Studio interference! Film length rules, guidelines,  and regulations! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Those are not a valid excuse as to what a films like BvS was released as a murky 2.5 hours rather then a much clearer 3 hours. And it's no excuse why the villians motivations and modes operandi is told so sketchy in Beyond!

 

If i take the effort to go the the cinema I would like the see the film I paid for in the best version the film makers thought they could give us. Don't release a compromised version on the big scream and then market a longer and better version for home video a few months later!