TTT & ROTK Complete Recordings Speculation

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ok let's start some speculation about the 2 sets that are still coming to us.

FOTR contained songs sung by the actors in the film, will TTT have Gollums rhyming in it? (i'm guessing not)

If TTT and ROTK will also include DVD-A's, will they have to present the music on 2 DVD's for ROTK, because of it's mamoth length?

Will they still bother with the Dolby Digital stereo? (useless really since you can just as well pop in the CD's)

[Incanus 5,713]

Ok let's start some speculation about the 2 sets that are still coming to us.

FOTR contained songs sung by the actors in the film, will TTT have Gollums rhyming in it? (i'm guessing not)

If TTT and ROTK will also include DVD-A's, will they have to present the music on 2 DVD's for ROTK, because of it's mamoth length?

Will they still bother with the Dolby Digital stereo? (useless really since you can just as well pop in the CD's)

Well TTT probably contains Miranda Otto's song at Theodred's Funeral and perhaps that Gollum's song at the Henneth Annun pool (that is one song I would not care to hear on the Complete recordings set).

I have been wondering that DVD-A problem as well since those two scores (well atleast ROTK) apparently do not fit comfortably on one DVD-A. But that is their problem not ours.

And what about that Rarities CD Doug has been hinting at? That is coming out with the ROTK Set? These things are in the works, TTT set at the moment, so perhaps Doug will reveal something this spring for us

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I wonder where Arwen's song will be placed.

It was written for a scene in TTT, which was moved to RotK, but the music was replaced by a new piece, and the Arwen song finally ended up in the Houses of Healing scene in the RotK EE. Thoughts?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

and perhaps that Gollum's song at the Henneth Annun pool (that is one song I would not care to hear on the Complete recordings set).

Well probably not, since it rather ruins the dramatic impact of Shore's music playing during that scene. They wisely avoided using Samwise's poem about Gandalf's fireworks.....

And what about that Rarities CD Doug has been hinting at? That is coming out with the ROTK Set? These things are in the works, TTT set at the moment, so perhaps Doug will reveal something this spring for us

Oh here we go again.

Doug Adams should really be carefull with announcements like that.

The shit's really gonna hit the fan if we get over 4 hours of ROTK music later this year, but NO rarities disc.

[Incanus 5,713]

I think Arwen's Song will be on the ROTK set in the Houses of Healing scene even if it was intended for TTT.

Atleast I see no reason to change that placement. Shore may of course do as he likes but it would not make any sense to put it anywhere but in ROTK.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Shore might decide to put the song he originally intended for that scene, song by Sissel.

I would not be against it, I find Arwen's Song to be a bit of a distraction.

[Incanus 5,713]

Oh here we go again.

Doug Adams should really be carefull with announcements like that.

The shit's really gonna hit the fan if we get over 4 hours of ROTK music later this year, but NO rarities disc.

Well Doug really should be more careful. There are lot of fans who have nothing else to do but hunt for those unused cues and try to match snippets of music for scenes that they found on the EE DVD menus.

Unused cues and alternates are hot stuff amoung us fans.

I for one am not so concerned about the Rarities CD. ROTK will have enough music to keep me occupied for a long time.

Oh BTW is that song in the end credits of ROTK the Sissel song that was not used for the Houses of Healing scene?

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

I wonder where Arwen's song will be placed.

It was written for a scene in TTT, which was moved to RotK, but the music was replaced by a new piece, and the Arwen song finally ended up in the Houses of Healing scene in the RotK EE. Thoughts?

I'm somewhat worried about that. It's a nice song, but the edits it has in ROTK are horrible.

Marian - who still doesn't have the FOTR set.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm somewhat worried about that. It's a nice song, but the edits it has in ROTK are horrible.

If the song is included, i'm sure we will hear the completed version.

Afterall Enya's Aniron is shortened in FOTR but we can hear it in it's complete form on both CD releases.

Marian - who still doesn't have the FOTR set.

Traitor!

[robthehand 3]

Well TTT probably contains Miranda Otto's song at Theodred's Funeral

I hope not.

[Incanus 5,713]

Well TTT probably contains Miranda Otto's song at Theodred's Funeral

I hope not.

Well if the FOTR contained the songs of the actors so why not TTT? These are Complete Recordings after all. Some may protest and say music is missing from the release but the music they are pining for was not in the movie and therefore should not be on the sets (I mean e.g. that Isengard theme choir rendition in the DVD menus that someone was overtly concerned before the set was released that was not on the set as it never made it to the movie). That is Shore's idea anyway and he decides what goes in and what stays out of these releases. So the song will probably be on the TTT set.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Where can I find that Isengard choir bit?

And there's something about the funeral song I kind of like, actually. I won't mind if it's on there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I like the funeral song and I definatly expect it will be included.

[Incanus 5,713]

gkgyver mentioned the Isengard choir thing but not where it could be found. He wrote this a little while ago on this page:

Did anyone spot the Isengart theme with choir that can be heard on one of the DVD menus? I don't think it's there. So much for "complete".

I do not know what place in the DVD menus he means and I have not bothered to find out myself. I am just too lazy to do that

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did anyone spot the Isengart theme with choir that can be heard on one of the DVD menus? I don't think it's there. So much for "complete".

The main problem is that people take this release's title The Complete Recordings far to seriously.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

I like the funeral song and I definatly expect it will be included.

I certainly hope it will be. A friend always complains about Miranda Otto's singing, but in fact, she's the only actress in all three films who gives the impression that she could stand on a stage and actually sing (and be heard by the audience without needing a microphone).

Marian - 8O

The Butcher Boy (Elliot Goldenthal)

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

This many character songs is these movies are just...cheesy.

The only one i think it works (in the movie the are cheesy but they all work more or less) isolated is Aragorn's in ROTK ending. Sounds like medieval church chants...

i would not have included them unless this one, an maybe put them on the rarities disc... as 'dialogue' versions...

BTW, doesnt this discussion belong to the music thread?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The only one i think it works (in the movie the are cheesy but they all work more or less) isolated is Aragorn's in ROTK ending. Sounds like medieval church chants...

I think Billy Boyd's song in ROTK worls even better.

i would not have included them unless this one, an maybe put them on the rarities disc... as 'dialogue' versions...

You really think they are gonna release such a disc?

BTW, doesnt this discussion belong to the music thread?

Perhaps, but this discussion is about the 2 upcoming releases, so it can't go in the FOTR thread on the Music forum.

And since we already have a fixed LOTR thread there's no real use in starting a new one.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

The only one i think it works (in the movie the are cheesy but they all work more or less) isolated is Aragorn's in ROTK ending. Sounds like medieval church chants...

I think Billy Boyd's song in ROTK worls even better.

Must be the dubbing of it.. yuck.

BTW' date=' doesnt this discussion belong to the music thread?[/quote']

Perhaps' date=' but this discussion is about the 2 upcoming releases, so it can't go in the FOTR thread on the Music forum.

And since we already have a fixed LOTR thread there's no real use in starting a new one.[/quote']

It's called 'Official LotR music thread'. What a fan you are... :roll:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't blame me for just because Marc screwed up again.

Must be the dubbing of it.. yuck.

What do you mean?

i dont know, if they are, i would put the songs there. If not i wouldnt put the songs in the releases (in the ones that have music, i would put the music...)

Gandalf's and Bilbo's singing fit very well, I can do without the Drinking song, but even that does not really bother me.

The funeral song in TTT functions as underscore, if one of the singers on the soundtrack, or the choir would have sung it in instead of Miranda Otto, we would not be having this debate.

For instance the FOTR release has the singing for the passing of the Elves, i've not heard anyone saying it should not have been included.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm not too keen on Bilbo's singing. It's probably because 1) he sings it differently than McKellen does, and 2) McKellen's singing was set to fitting music later, but Holm's wasn't.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How do we feel about Viggo's crooning about Beren and Tinuviel?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I could do without it too. It's nice to have for completion's sake, as the other in-film songs are on there too, but I don't care for Mortensen's mumbled off-key song there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't care for Mortensen's mumbled off-key song there.

TURN IT UP....TURN IT UP!!!

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

The only one i think it works (in the movie the are cheesy but they all work more or less) isolated is Aragorn's in ROTK ending. Sounds like medieval church chants...

I think Billy Boyd's song in ROTK worls even better.

And unlike Mortensen, Boyd can sing.

Not having these CDs, I still guess I'll be slightly annoyed by Bilbo and Aragorn on FOTR. I say yes to putting all the singing on the CDs that actually goes with the score... but these two bits don't seem to be related to the score in any way.

Marian - who likes the Hobbit drinking songs.

[Incanus 5,713]

I am happy with the McKellen's song at the beginning of the CR. Shore orchestrated around it in the EE so it sounds like it belongs there.

Ian Holm's song comes in abruptly and does not fit in the music very well but it still does not bother me very much.

Mortensen's song of Luthien was funny already in the movie as it is basically almost inaudible mumble. It only proves that Viggo is not the best singer out there. Even his ROTK song is better as it is almost a chant rather than a song.

I have no problem with the Hobbit Drinking Song. Nice addition. Atleast it does not play over the score.

I am actually hoping Eowyn's Lament will be on the TTT set. I loved the way Jackson got these cultural elements into the films even if he couldn't present all the songs featured in the book. And even if that song is not from the book it tells us something about the Rohan funerary customs and culture and the way they honour their dead and is not a great diversion from the culture Tolkien created. Miranda Otto's performance is appropriate and fittingly sad.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Must be the dubbing of it.. yuck.

What do you mean?

I mean that the song is in spanish here... (not in the CD though)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Dubbing sucks!

If you haven't heard these songs in English you cannot really have an opinion about them.

[Incanus 5,713]

Dubbing sucks!

If you haven't heard these songs in English you cannot really have an opinion about them.

Quite agreed. Dubbing is a horrible way to ruin a movie. I am glad they do not dub films in Finland (except for animated films).

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Dubbing sucks!

If you haven't heard these songs in English you cannot really have an opinion about them.

As i said in the CD they are not dubbed, and i have the CD and DVD by the way.

It still posses a cheesy feeling to it anyway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes I agree.

But it's very Tolkien.

[Incanus 5,713]

I have not seen the TTT in a long while and I was wondering is there anything significant changed in the music of EE compared to the TE. Of course there is more music but did Shore have to rewrite longer segments to wed the new music to the pictures and the old music. What were the most significant changes?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes I think so.

The ending of the film is extended with several scenes for instance.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Yeah, the final 'epilogue' showing the aftermath of the battle has some extra music, which I'm really looking forward to seeing.

There's also extra music at the start in the 'Elven Rope' scene and the extra shots of Frodo, Sam and Gollum. Can't remember anything else so I'll have to give the film another viewing nearer the time.

[Incanus 5,713]

Also there are the Faramir flashback scene with Boromir, Faramir and Denethor where we hear further development of the Gondor theme and the Aragorn and Gandalf scene they discuss the fate of the Ring Quest.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Not just "further development". It's pretty much a full-blown rendition of the Gondor theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I had goosebumps the first time I heard that theme in the TTT EE.

I always liked it's one appearance in FOTR and to suddenly be treated such a heroic rendition of it....

[Incanus 5,713]

OK I admit it. A full-blown great fanfare of Gondor theme That was a welcome addition and now the Gondor theme is heard in all the three films. It's absense in the TTT TE bothered me a bit since the movie moves into Gondor territory and we never hear the theme. EE rectified that.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Ah yes, I forgot about that one, great cue I particularly like the minor chord aspects (I think - I know almost nothing about music technics) as Boromir is looking up at the flag.

Looking through the DVD booklet, there's also the Ent Draft scene which I know had some comical music. Other than that I think it's mostly just slightly extended scenes, and a lot of it such as the Passage of the Marshes I don't remember being scored.

In other words, I think we're looking at a lot more new cues than alternates for this one, although I haven't begun to think about Helm's Deep, but again, did they really add that much more?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I had goosebumps the first time I heard that theme in the TTT EE.

You could have heard it on the TTT TC DVD.

It's in the EE preview.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Some of us didn't go near the TTT TE

I've only seen the FotR TE, which kind of explains why I wasn't very familiar with many of the changes in the CR set.

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Those looking forward to the coming TTT:EE Complete Recordings might find this old piece of work interesting...

This cuelist should give you an indication of the Extended Edition add-ons for TTT - referencing the two DVD discs:

# = music composed for the Extended Edition

* = unreleased cue.

** = partially unreleased cue.

DISC ONE

1. Foundations of Stone [3:34]

2. Main Title [0:34]* #

3. Elven Rope [0:28]* #

4. Lost in Emyn Muil [1:01]*

5. Lembas [1:21]** #

6. Capturing Gollum [1:55] **

7. The Taming of Smeagol [2:46] * #

8. TTT Overture [7:02]#,**

a. The Uruk-Hai [1:32] * #

b. The Three Hunters [2:02] **

c. Union of the Two Towers [2:30] ** #

d. The Westfold Burns [0:58] *

9. The Fords of Isen [0:38] * #

10. Grima Wormtongue [2:05] * #

11. On the Trail of the Uruks [0:55] *

12. In the Company of Uruks [2:39] *#

a. Dinner Debate [1:41] * #

b. Mordor Meat [0:58] * #

13. The Riders of Rohan [0:53]

14. The Business of an Elf, a Man and a Dwarf [0:27]*

15. The Pile of Carcasses [1:48]*

16. Grishnakh’s Timely End [4:17]*

17. Treebeard [0:56]

18. The Dead Marshes [0:50]** #

19. Little Candles [2:04]** #

20. Smeagol / Wraiths on Wings [1:54]**

21. Talking Trees [0:22]*

22. Olorin [1:35]**

23. Gandalf the White [1:44]* #

24. Shadowfax / The White Rider [0:56]**

25. Song of the Entwives [1:48]* #

26. Sauron Searches [6:24] **,#

a. The Heir of Numenor [1:30] *,#

b. The Black Gate is Closed [1:49]** #

c. Another Way [2:07]**

27. The Ent Draught / Old Man Willow [2:43] *

28. The Fellowship comes to Rohan [4:31] **

a. Edoras [1:06] **

b. Bitter Watches of the Night [3:25] **

29. Rohan Revival [7:22] **,#

a. King of the Golden Hall [2:00] *

b. The White Wizards [1:01] **

c. Theoden King / Theodred’s Funeral [4:21] ** #

30. Symbelmine [1:28]

31. The King’s Decision [1:38] **

32. Rohan Retreat [5:41] * #

a. Brego [1:22] * #

b. The Ring of Barahir [1:26] * #

c. We Shall Return [0:28] * #

d. A Daughter of Kings [1:20] *

e. Exodus from Edoras [1:05] *

33. Ithilien [0:56]*

34. Gollum and Smeagol [1:00]*

35. The Rangers of Ithilien [3:29]** #

DISC TWO (cue 36 actually continues for 3 seconds into disc 2)

36. Eowyn’s Smile [1:39]* #

37. A Dunedain Ranger / Evenstar [3:57]** #

38. A Gift [1:10]*

39. The Wolves of Isengard [2:32]**

40. Warg Battle [1:35]*

41. Helm’s Deep [3:05]** #

42. The Missing [0:23]**

43. Isengard Unleashed [0:47]*

44. Breath of Life [1:48]

45. Arwen’s Fate [1:25]**

46. Second Prophecy [3:27]

a. The Leavetaking [1:10]

b. Galadriel’s Prophecy [2:17]

47. Henneth Annun [0:53] **

48. Brother of Boromir (aka Faramir’s Dream) [0:21] * #

49. Sons of Denethor [3:43] * #

50. The Forbidden Pool [2:40] **

51. Smeagol Betrayed [0:44]

52. Faramir’s Test [0:49] **

53. Hope Returns [1:22] **

54. The Evenstar Restored [0:36] *

55. Preparations for Battle [1:15] *

56. Theoden’s Desperation [1:00] *

57. Entmoot [0:50]

58. Valour without Renown [2:16] * #

59. The Horse and the Rider [1:05] **

60. Son of Hama [0:18] **

61. The Fellowship Arms [1:05] **

62. The Last Alliance – One Final Show! [0:59] *

63. Hornburg Haka [1:30] ** #

64. The Whites of Their Eyes [2:52] **

65. Fire Undoes Stone [1:10] *

66. The Deeping Wall Breaks [1:41] *

67. Part of this World / The Eldar Retreat [1:54] *

68. Lament for the Eldar [1:13] **

69. Defending the Keep [1:42] **

70. The Hornburg Breached [1:17] **

71. Travelling South / Osgiliath Burns [2:01] *

72. A Wizard Should Know Better [0:07] *

73. Last March of the Ents [1:30] **

74. The Nazgul Cometh [0:53] *

75. Ride out with Me [1:53] *

76. The Turning of the Tide [4:24] **

a. Forth Eorlingas [1:57] **

b. Stone Breaks, Ground Shakes [2:20] **

c. The Nazgul Goeth [1:07] *

77. Finale [11:29] ** #

a. The Tales that Really Mattered [2:49] **

b. Wrath of the Huorns / Final Count [1:18] #,*

c. Flotsam and Jetsam [2:11] #,*

d. The Good Will of All Men [2:23] #,*

e. The Battle for Middle Earth Begins [0:31] *

f. Samwise the Brave / Gollum Wins [2:17] **

78. End Credits [9:04]**

a. Gollum’s Song [3:44]

b. Eowyn’s Theme [0:19]*

c. Seduction of the Ring [0:29]

d. Olorin (incl. ‘The Fight’ and ‘The Call’)[0:58]

e. Gilraen Theme [0:27]*

f. Rivendell Theme (‘The Leavetaking’) [0:40]

g. Evenstar Theme (for cor anglais) [0:30]*

h. Aragorn’s Theme (flute variation) [0:32]

i. Rohan Theme / Finale [1:25]

79. Extended Edition End Credits [11:23]**

a. The Uruk-Hai [2:46]

b. Forth Eorlingas (without soprano solo) [1:59]**

c. Treebeard [1:44]

d. Grishnakh’s Timely End (part one) [0:39]*

e. A Balrog of Morgoth [0:24]*

f. Darkness Took Me [0:21]*

g. I Strayed out of Time and Thought [0:25]*

h. Gandalf the Grey [0:24]*

i. Gandalf the White (excerpt) [0:36]**

j. Faramir’s Dream [0:44]*

k. Hope Returns [1:22]

[robthehand 3]

Shouldn't this thing be available for pre-order by now?

- Rob, sensing more Incanus hissy-fits in the next few months...

[John Crichton 4]

I'm hoping that the complete TTT will heighten my appreciation of the score. It's still very mediocre in my opinion. Right now the only reason I'm buying it is to prevent an unseemly gap in between the FotR and RotK releases.

[Incanus 5,713]

Shouldn't this thing be available for pre-order by now?

- Rob, sensing more Incanus hissy-fits in the next few months...  

Nope, no, not a one rant this time about the release dates or anything about this release. I was so anxious with the FOTR because it was the first one and I really wanted to see if we were to get these scores for real. Now I have the FOTR CR to keep me company while waiting for the TTT CR. No problems anymore.

And Rob remember I am not one of those going bonkers while trying to get the unreleased LOTR music from Battle for Middle-Earth 2.

[nightscape94 965]

No worries. The best cue from the TTT score is already on the OST release. Forth Eorlingas.

Tim

[John Crichton 4]

If nothing else the TTT complete release will be worth it for some pre-RotK full-on Gondor theme action. The statement of it in FotR is such a tease.

[Incanus 5,713]

I really liked the fact that the EE scenes gave Shore an opporturnity to add the Gondor theme to the TTT as well and this way the thematic continuity is much more satisfying.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

From an interview with Howard Shore on FSM online.

The Two Towers boxed set is likely to show up in record stores toward the end of 2006, which should allow cash-strapped collectors time to recover from the hefty cost of the complete Fellowship of the Rings release. “That’s why I thought by putting them out once a year it allowed some break between the releases so people could catch up a bit. And it also takes us so long to do it. It’s a complicated process to restore the pieces and edit it all together into new tracks and it takes a while to get it all done.”

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Meh.. I want it now

On the other hand, it gives them plenty of time to top the already near perfect FotR box