Lord of the Rings scores slate numbers?

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

From Use Well the Days (the copy on youtube is crappy quality so I can't some of them very well):

 

rotk 519 (619?)

 

rotk 624 The Passing of the Grey Company?

 

rotk 629

 

 

 

rotk 506 1 731

rotk 506 2 802(?)

 

rotk 3F3 804 (506) 

 

rotk 615 907 The Siege of Gondor seems to include Allegience to Denethor, and possibly The Sacrifice of Faramir? @Jim Ware?

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

rotk 926 a928 The End of All Things

[Jim Ware 638]

On 06/02/2026 at 6:31 PM, Edmilson said:

The Two Towers

 

• 9A Samwise the Brave

Deciphering key: Same as Fellowship. Numbers represent the reel and letters represent the part.

There are more Two Towers cue numbers in the documentary on the EE DVD guys!

11 hours ago, The Score Cleaner said:

rotk 615 907 The Siege of Gondor seems to include Allegience to Denethor, and possibly The Sacrifice of Faramir? @Jim Ware?

Yes - 615 907 is both of those (but not the *actual* siege of Gondor, which is a separate composition with the same title).

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

6 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

 

Yes - 615 907 is both of those (but not the *actual* siege of Gondor, which is a separate composition with the same title).

So is the *actual* Siege of Gondor basically what's on the CR (minus the EE additions)? or is there music that ended up elsewhere later included as well?

 

BTW, in the UWTD doc we hear the first (EE) section of A Coronal of Silver and Gold being recorded, is this the initial sessions recording that was later redone in the EE sessions?

[Edmilson 12,182]

49 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

There are more Two Towers cue numbers in the documentary on the EE DVD guys!

I don't have it  My dad bought the DVDs back in the Day, but only the 2 disc edition of the TEs. But I'll try to find it on YouTube.

 

51 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

Yes - 615 907 is both of those (but not the *actual* siege of Gondor, which is a separate composition with the same title).

So the cue list for ROTK has two cues named "The Siege of Gondor", but one is Allegiance to Denethor/Sacrifice of Faramir and the other is the actual siege?

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

34 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I don't have it  My dad bought the DVDs back in the Day, but only the 2 disc edition of the TEs. But I'll try to find it on YouTube.

Sadly, TTT is missing a lot of the appendices on YT compared to the other two.

[Holko 12,003]

It's all up on archive.org.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

rotk 519 ??? (876? 576? 276?) Journey to the Cross-roads

 

Hmmm, Palantir is 511... does this indicate a different cutting order? Or just writing/recording order? @Jim Ware

 

b137-282 rotk 629 c902b cf902 The Passing of the Grey Company 

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

???g Forth Eorlingas!

ttt4b The King of the Golden Hall

ttt dvd 3 v2 307c cf313 1d 2g The Taming of Smeagol

ttt dvd 3 Slinker

ttt 6d Pt. 1 Stinker

ttt dvd 18 Fangorn Forest (Ent-Draught? @Jim Ware?)

[FOTR] 1A The History of the Ring (theme)

ttt 7f Helm's Deep

ttt 5w Breath of Life

ttt 8d The March of the Ents

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

ttt 9ae Gollum's Song

ttt dvd 40 v2 315c cf315 9a Samwise the Brave

ttt dvd 29 Gondor

M88 Gollum

M91 Balin's Tomb

M92 Orc Attack

M98 Balrog

I think M140 Breaking of the Fellowship refers to the NZ version.

??? Breaking the Fellowship seems to be the LPO version and includes In Dreams.

8G The Great River seems to include Parth Galen/Amon Hen.

[Jim Ware 638]

9 hours ago, The Score Cleaner said:

ttt dvd 18 Fangorn Forest (Ent-Draught? @Jim Ware?)

Yes!

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

18 hours ago, The Score Cleaner said:

rotk 519 ??? (876? 576? 276?) Journey to the Cross-roads

 

Hmmm, Palantir is 511... does this indicate a different cutting order? Or just writing/recording order? @Jim Ware

 

@Jim Ware?

[Jim Ware 638]

19 hours ago, The Score Cleaner said:

Hmmm, Palantir is 511... does this indicate a different cutting order? Or just writing/recording order? @Jim Ware

 

A little of both in this case, although the composition numbers are dates and (generally) have no bearing on sequencing. This is another case of scenes being re-ordered during scoring, and there is material that was recorded for 511 that also appears in later versions of 519.

 

In the event of a revised Complete Recordings and Rarities, would you want every recorded sequencing permutation? This would necessitate some duplication, but might include some unique bridging material.

[Edmilson 12,182]

30 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

 

A little of both in this case, although the composition numbers are dates and (generally) have no bearing on sequencing. This is another case of scenes being re-ordered during scoring, and there is material that was recorded for 511 that also appears in later versions of 519.

In other words:

1. Shore wrote The Palantir in May 11, 2003.
2. Eight days later, he wrote Journey to the Crossroads.
3. During the scoring sessions a few months later, scenes were reordered and forced Shore to incorporate stuff that he originally wrote for The Palantir in May 11 into revisions of Journey to the Crossroads.

Geez, seems like the scoring process for ROTK was a nightmare for Shore... And it only got worse with The Hobbit movies.

 

Also, do you know what the codes "d811h", "cf813 D", "c308b", "cf218" and "3F3" for the cues below mean?

• rotk 602 d811h cf813 D b203-261 Minas Tirith
• rotk dvd74 c308b cf218 The Battle of Pelennor
• rotk 3F3 804 (506) 

Thanks for your help with these! And sorry if we're being annoying with all these questions 

[Jim Ware 638]

30 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Also, do you know what the codes "d811h", "cf813 D", "c308b", "cf218" and "3F3" for the cues below mean?

• rotk 602 d811h cf813 D b203-261 Minas Tirith
• rotk dvd74 c308b cf218 The Battle of Pelennor
• rotk 3F3 804 (506) 

Thanks for your help with these! And sorry if we're being annoying with all these questions 

 

rotk 602d 811h cf813

602 = date of composition (June 2nd)

d = version (in this case 'd')

 

811 = date of orchestration (August 11th)

h = version on the date above (so this is the eighth version on August 11th)

 

cf = conform

813 = conform date (August 13th)

 

The 'D' and bar numbers are to assist the librarians and musicians in identifying the right paperwork at the sessions to keep things moving.

 

Some pieces will have two dates of composition (615 907) - this is where the logic gets a little hazy, but generally speaking these are instances where a composition has been substantially revised to fit a new cut or is a patch/insert to accommodate recutting. The composition may typically incorporate other material, overlap with other compositions or completely replace other material. 

 

Some pieces will have no 'conform' date - this is rare, but these are typically 'one and done', in that the film didn't change between writing and recording.

[BloodBoal 8,485]

This whole system sounds like quantum physics to me.

[Jim Ware 638]

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

This whole system sounds like quantum physics to me.

This was simplified considerably for The Hobbit!

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

1 hour ago, Jim Ware said:

 

A little of both in this case, although the composition numbers are dates and (generally) have no bearing on sequencing. This is another case of scenes being re-ordered during scoring, and there is material that was recorded for 511 that also appears in later versions of 519.

 

In the event of a revised Complete Recordings and Rarities, would you want every recorded sequencing permutation? This would necessitate some duplication, but might include some unique bridging material.

I would! At the very least, a little note/breakdown in the booklet somewhere ala the take log in some Intrada bbooklets. the early cut stuff fascinates me greatly.

[BloodBoal 8,485]

Count me interested as well.

 

The Complete Recordings: The Early Cuts Material and The Music Of The Lord Of The Rings Films: The Early Cuts Edition

 

Make it happen, Jim.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Count me interested as well.

 

The Complete Recordings: The Early Cuts Material and The Music Of The Lord Of The Rings Films: The Early Cuts Edition

 

Make it happen, Jim.

Nah, call it "The Music of The Lord of the Rings: In the Making" or "In the Making: The Music of Lord of the Rings" to make up for the burying of the annotated scores pdf  

[BloodBoal 8,485]

The Music Of The Lord Of The Rings or How I Learned To Stop Worrying About Changing Cuts And Love The Sequencing Permutations

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

On 06/02/2026 at 4:38 PM, BloodBoal said:

This picture from the An Unexpected Journey album booklet presents lr56b, which seems to correspond to the opening section of Radagast The Brown (along with the preceding unused "rain" music heard in one of the production diaries):

 

It was actually heard here:

 

 

(And in the background of a couple of the EE appendices docs)

[BloodBoal 8,485]

Yes, I know (it can be heard at 02:50 in the video, Edmilson, in case you're wondering ). I remember you were the one who pointed out that this music was most likely unused material for the scene with the Company in the rain, since we then see Shore record the beginning of Radagast The Brown.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

Yeah, I think @Jim Ware confirmed it shortly afterward.

[Edmilson 12,182]

8 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

This whole system sounds like quantum physics to me.

I mean, the other five movies have easier systems, it's just ROTK that is the odd one.

 

FOTR and TTT use the "1M1" system we know and love, just with a new coat of paint (instead of "1M1, 1M2...", we have "1A, 1B...").

 

The Hobbit movies are easy once you understand the "LR, MR and BR" codes, and that the numbers correspond to each scene in the entire trilogy. Which makes sense, considering they were moving scenes around movies (like the High Fells example) during editing to create the trilogy.

 

It's ROTK that is the representation of this meme:

 

 

But hey, if it made sense for Shore and the movie team during production, then great.

[Edmilson 12,182]

Post updated with newly unearthed info about FOTR, TTT and ROTK.

 

I've also added some speculation of my own, such as this:

 

On 06/02/2026 at 3:31 PM, Edmilson said:

Additionally, for some cues we know the number used during the writing process and the early recordings with the NZSO in April, 2001, for the Cannes Festival in the following month. Some of these cues were re-recorded later with the LPO in new versions, during which they gained new slates that conformed with the 1A pattern above (The Breaking of the Fellowship being the greatest example).

I think, based on what we know, that the "m + cue number" system from Fellowship was not only used for the writing, but also for the NZSO recordings. It would make sense: by April, the reels weren't completely locked (which would be a much greater problem later on), so they decided to just use this format when recording the NZSO cues.

 

Also, the "m" cues we know of mostly correspond to those that were recorded by the NZSO. We have pretty much all the cues from the Moria setpiece (from Gollum to The Balrog, which I presume is for the Gandalf vs Balrog confrontation), plus m140 seems to be for the early, NZSO recorded version of The Breaking of the Fellowship. Later, when Shore recorded the final version of Breaking with the LPO, he probably attributed it a new cue number to conform with the other LPO cues (9A or something on that realm).

 

OTOH, I haven't heard anything about The Shire, Many Meetings, The Fighting Uruk-Hai/The River Anduin and The Great River being included on the NZSO recordings... I might be wrong, but if not, then these might just be the writing numbers.

 

For TTT, some interesting details with the dvd cues. They seem to be in an ordinary numeric order by their placement in the movie (so, dvd 3 The Taming of Smeagol is before dvd 29 Gondor, which is before dvd 40 Samwise the Brave). That facilitates things... 

 

This one is interesting, though:

 

On 06/02/2026 at 3:31 PM, Edmilson said:

• 1D The Taming of Smeagol
• ttt dvd 3 v2 307c cf313 1D 2G The Taming of Smeagol

If we break down the codes:

• dvd = written for the EE of the movie.
• 3 = Third newly-recorded cue in the placement of the EE version.
• v2 = Second version of "The Taming of Smeagol", the first one was recorded for the TE.
• 307c cf313 = Written March 07, 2003; conformed March 13. I think.
• 1D = Original reel/cue number of this cue in the theatrical edition (fourth cue from reel 1).
• 2G = New reel/cue number of this cue in the extended edition (seventh cue from reel 2).

If my theory is correct, then I extrapolated 1D as the slate for the TE Taming of Smeagol.

 

For ROTK, please let me know if I put these cues in order (since we can't count on the numbers for that... ).

 

I included all of our conclusions up to this point. My only extrapolation was "Journey to the Cross-roads", which @The Score Cleaner was having a few doubts about the number after 519, and I put it as 816, as in August 16th - a potential date for this cue's orchestration.

 

On 06/02/2026 at 3:31 PM, Edmilson said:

Return of the King

 

• rotk 519 816 - Journey to the Cross-roads

• rotk 511 - The Palantir

• rotk 602 d811h cf813 D b203-261 - Minas Tirith

• rotk 912 917 - The Black Gate Opens

• rotk 414 415b - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol

• rotk 624 - The Passing of the Grey Company

• b137-282 rotk 629 c902b cf902 - The Passing of the Grey Company 

• rotk 506 1026 - Shelob's Lair

• rotk 615 907 - The Siege of Gondor (actually Allegiance to Denethor and The Sacrifice of Faramir).

• rotk dvd74 c308b cf218 - The Battle of Pelennor

• rotk dvd79 - Houses of Healing

• rotk 926 a928 - The End of All Things

• rotk 926 1001 a1002 - The End of All Things (a new version?)

• rotk 805 1103 - The Grey Havens

• rotk 707 - Use Well the Days

 

Cues with unknown names:

 

• rotk 519 (619?)
• rotk 506 1 731
• rotk 506 2 802(?)
• rotk 3F3 804 (506)
• rotk 629

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

I mean, there is no need to theorize, as the session log in Doug's book straight up says it. (and I think @Jim Ware said so on the forum at some point)

 

 

(Hopefully the Horse doesn't trample me for posting this image)

As you can see, your post was off with it's titles + slates, Mithril Vest and The Second Hall are separate "cues" and are m95 and m96 respectively, Khazad-Dum is m97 not m96.

19c is different from the others, because it's a title from the Live to Projection score, not the original sessions sheets.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

46 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

For ROTK, please let me know if I put these cues in order (since we can't count on the numbers for that... ).

 

• rotk 519 816 - Journey to the Cross-roads

• rotk 511 - The Palantir

• rotk 602 d811h cf813 D b203-261 - Minas Tirith

• rotk 414 415b - The Stairs of Cirith Ungol

• rotk 624 - The Passing of the Grey Company

• b137-282 rotk 629 c902b cf902 - The Passing of the Grey Company 

• rotk 615 907 - The Siege of Gondor (actually Allegiance to Denethor and The Sacrifice of Faramir).
• rotk 506 1026 - Shelob's Lair

• rotk dvd74 c308b cf218 - The Battle of Pelennor

• rotk dvd79 - Houses of Healing
• rotk 912 917 - The Black Gate Opens

• rotk 926 a928 - The End of All Things

• rotk 926 1001 a1002 - The End of All Things (a new version?)

• rotk 805 1103 - The Grey Havens

• rotk 707 - Use Well the Days

This is basically the order based on what we know of the early cut.

Interestingly, the book chapter titled Journey to the Cross-roads covers scenes scored with these cues: Journey to the Cross-roads, The Road to Isengard (The Journey There section), A Coronal of Silver and Gold (the 0:00-1:38); perhaps when originally scored, all or some of these scenes were once sequence? @Jim Ware?  

Stairs Cirith Ungol is the earliest number on the list, so perhaps it is the early version prior to having material from Osgiliath Invaded grafted onto it.

b137-282 rotk 629 is probably the revision for Anduril, though it could also be the revisions for Theoden leaving Merry behind or Theoden's scene with Eowyn (no more despair)

dvd74 is probably the extra EE section of The Tomb of the Stewards.

[Edmilson 12,182]

1 hour ago, The Score Cleaner said:

I mean, there is no need to theorize, as the session log in Doug's book straight up says it. (and I think @Jim Ware said so on the forum at some point)

 

 

(Hopefully the Horse doesn't trample me for posting this image)

As you can see, your post was off with it's titles + slates, Mithril Vest and The Second Hall are separate "cues" and are m95 and m96 respectively, Khazad-Dum is m97 not m96.

19c is different from the others, because it's a title from the Live to Projection score, not the original sessions sheets.

Nice. I'll fix the post later today. And I'll remove the Dwarrowdelf cue, since it doesn't make sense in the post.

 

By the way, just to be sure, these four cues recorded between April 17-19 weren't the only ones from the NZSO recording, right? Do we know for certain which cues were recorded with the NZSO in those early sessions?

[Holko 12,003]

13 hours ago, Jim Ware said:

In the event of a revised Complete Recordings and Rarities, would you want every recorded sequencing permutation? This would necessitate some duplication, but might include some unique bridging material.

I think the "alternate section" approach could be useful here, even by faking cue starts and endings with obvious or not so obvious fadeins/outs for the takes which were already included elsewhere, having enough of them for context to help definitively place where we are but not much more. Not the nicest but probably the most economical way? CR version in the main program, a definitive alternate assembly with the most different permutation/takes (or more if there are more true alternates, maybe even just including inserts on their own), plus these segments for the unique bridging sections of nonunique material. With of course a booklet laying it all out clearly in recording order.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Do we know for certain which cues were recorded with the NZSO in those early sessions?

Everything from at least Journey in the Dark/Moria to 6:57 of Khazad-Dum. about twenty minutes.
 

 

@Jim Ware would m89 be Gandalf and Frodo's discussion and m90 be Dwarrowdelf? 

[Jim Ware 638]

On 12/02/2026 at 6:28 AM, The Score Cleaner said:

 

@Jim Ware would m89 be Gandalf and Frodo's discussion and m90 be Dwarrowdelf? 

 

m88 includes Gandalf and Frodo's discussion. 

 

On 12/02/2026 at 5:37 AM, Edmilson said:

By the way, just to be sure, these four cues recorded between April 17-19 weren't the only ones from the NZSO recording, right? Do we know for certain which cues were recorded with the NZSO in those early sessions?

This is just one page of the recording log. Everything in Moria was recorded with the NZSO, including the EE material, ending with Mabel Faletolu's solo (the orchestral piece that follow was recorded later in London).

[Edmilson 12,182]

36 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

This is just one page of the recording log. Everything in Moria was recorded with the NZSO, including the EE material, ending with Mabel Faletolu's solo (the orchestral piece that follow was recorded later in London).

In other words, and including the EE stuff, the NZSO recordings went from this:

 

 

To the female solo here (orchestral parts being done by the LPO):

 

 

Pretty substantial amount of music. Judging by the CRs, it's about 21 minutes, though I'm sure there are alternates and the like.

 

Did the NZSO record anything aside from the Moria setpiece?

[Chen G. 6,009]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Did the NZSO record anything aside from the Moria setpiece?

 

The version of the Breaking of the Fellowship you hear in the fan credits.

 

I think that's it.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

36 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

To the female solo here (orchestral parts being done by the LPO):

The LPO stuff starts at 6:57.

 

Notice the OST doesn't include it. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Pretty substantial amount of music. Judging by the CRs, it's about 21 minutes, though I'm sure there are alternates and the like.

 

 

There are microedits that are present in video games and the Cannes reel, and some dropped/reworked passages, that are present in L2P.

[Cameron007 116]

11 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

The LPO stuff starts at 6:57.

 

Notice the OST doesn't include it. 

 

 

I always wondered why the end of the OST track seemed to fade out so naturally.

 

Also, it sounds to me like the solo soprano is a different take compared to the film/CR.

[Edmilson 12,182]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

The version of the Breaking of the Fellowship you hear in the fan credits.

 

I think that's it.

I remember listening to that early version of Breaking of the Fellowship a few years ago. I thought it was just dreadful . Might be the worst piece of Middle Earth music Shore wrote.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm just too attached to the final version of that track, which is one of my favorite Middle Earth pieces ever, and actually one of my favorites, period. But I thought that early version was pretty annoying, just a looooooong descending melody that is trying to be melodramatic.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

26 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I remember listening to that early version of Breaking of the Fellowship a few years ago. I thought it was just dreadful . Might be the worst piece of Middle Earth music Shore wrote.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm just too attached to the final version of that track, which is one of my favorite Middle Earth pieces ever, and actually one of my favorites, period. But I thought that early version was pretty annoying, just a looooooong descending melody that is trying to be melodramatic.

We also clearly don't have all of it, as the Andrew Lesnie tribute has bits not in the fan club credits:

 

 

And then there is of course the fact the Fellowship statement for the Three Hunters is completely absent.

 

Also @Kühni's holy grail.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

Interestingly Sibley's making of book seems to indicate 1G goes through to Gandalf seeing the map in Bag End...

[Edmilson 12,182]

7 hours ago, The Score Cleaner said:

There are microedits that are present in video games and the Cannes reel, and some dropped/reworked passages, that are present in L2P.

I saw FOTR L2P once, back in November of 2022. They showed the theatrical cut, but to be honest, I didn't catch many different bits from the score I was used to in TE form, except for one: the Last Stand of Boromir scene used the choir from the EE, while in the TE it plays without the choir. I always preferred the choir version, so I welcomed that change 

 

4 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

Gandalf being the map

I didn't know Middle Earth wizards had the power to turn themselves into maps... 

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

2A The One Ring

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

1E dvd The Shire

ttt 9a 1020b px1004 Samwise the Brave

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

ttt 1A Glamdring (506)

[Edmilson 12,182]

26 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

ttt 1A Glamdring (506)

 

By the way, 506 means this cue was written on May 6th, right? So Shore's thing of dating his compositions goes way before ROTK and the Hobbits movies?

[Jim Ware 638]

1 hour ago, The Score Cleaner said:

ttt 1A Glamdring (506)

I'm assuming that the 506 on this sketch is the *picture version*. The sketch was written on June 23rd (623).

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

25 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

I'm assuming that the 506 on this sketch is the *picture version*. The sketch was written on June 23rd (623).

While you are here, Dernhelm In Battle, was the EE section recorded in the main sessions, or as a later insert during the EE sessions?

 

And which EE section does dvd74 cover?

[Chen G. 6,009]

10 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

DernHelm

 

 

 

(Dernhelm is the Old English cognate of "Tarnhelm" )

[Edmilson 12,182]

52 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

I'm assuming that the 506 on this sketch is the *picture version*. The sketch was written on June 23rd (623).

Lol that they had 505 cuts of the movie before this one, and it wasn't even the final cut 

 

Just kidding. I'm sure that there is some kind of system to keep track of these movies' many versions.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

13 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Lol that they had 505 cuts of the movie before this one, and it wasn't even the final cut 

 

Just kidding. I'm sure that there is some kind of system to keep track of these movies' many versions.

Maybe the scene was cut May 6th? Nah.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

brackets indicate the actual title is unknown, but the relevant OST/CR is used

ttt 1J [The Three Hunters]

rotk 619 [Dwimorberg - The Haunted Mountain]

rotk 529 909 [Osgiliath Invaded]

rotk 411 [A Coronal of Silver and Gold/Minas Morgul]

@Jim Ware what was the earliest composition written for ROTK?