Lord of the Rings scores slate numbers?

[Edmilson 12,182]

1 hour ago, The Score Cleaner said:

@Jim Ware what was the earliest composition written for ROTK?

Good question! And what was the latest composition written for the movie before the premiere in December 2003 (so, excluding the EE stuff recorded in 2004)?

 

Also, do we know approximately the recording months for ROTK and the other two LOTR movies? @Jim Ware

 

Thx

[Jim Ware 638]

On 16/02/2026 at 3:04 AM, The Score Cleaner said:

@Jim Ware what was the earliest composition written for ROTK?

In terms of things that were actually recorded:

Earliest - April 9th.

Latest - November 5th.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

36 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

In terms of things that were actually recorded:

Earliest - April 9th.

Latest - November 5th.

 

[Jim Ware 638]

On 17/2/2026 at 12:07 PM, The Score Cleaner said:

 

You’ve heard one of them.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

4 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

You’ve heard one of them.

I should hope so, since I have heard every single LOTR composition released AFAIK  

 

Is it Lighting of the Beacons?

[Jay 45,771]

I thought we were told somewhere long ago that Lighting of the Beacons was the first thing recorded at the ROTK sessions

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

Just now, Jay said:

I thought we were told somewhere long ago that Lighting of the Beacons (OST version) was the first thing recorded at the ROTK sessions

Yeah, I think so as well, but I am not entirely sure if it was "first thing recorded" or "recorded on the first day"

[Jay 45,771]

You're right!  First day is all we were told, I found it:

 

On 20/03/2025 at 7:47 PM, Jim Ware said:

The original version *is* the film version (and was indeed recorded on the first day of the sessions). The album version came later.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

You're right!  First day is all we were told, I found it:

 

Well, In the EE watch along commentary, Jim says this and Minas Morgul material was recorded on the first day.

 

Around 1:12:25

 

 

[Jay 45,771]

Wait @Jim Ware grew a beard!?

[Edmilson 12,182]

27 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

You’ve heard one of them.

 

24 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

I should hope so, since I have heard every single LOTR composition released AFAIK  

In other words: whatever was recorded on the last session, on November 5th, 2003 (trivia: The Matrix Revolutions release date ), it was probably an alternate for a cue that has never been released and ultimately went unused in both TE and EE.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

According to Doug's Book, a temporary title for the Into the West was Journey's End.

 

And the last passage recorded ended softly.

 

Shore started writing "The Destruction of the Ring" in October. The Mumakil battle as well apparently.

 

Master Meriadoc Swordthain (The Passing of the Grey Company) was recorded in September

[Jim Ware 638]

14 hours ago, Jay said:

I thought we were told somewhere long ago that Lighting of the Beacons was the first thing recorded at the ROTK sessions

First thing recorded, but not the first thing written.

 

13 hours ago, Edmilson said:

In other words: whatever was recorded on the last session, on November 5th, 2003 (trivia: The Matrix Revolutions release date ), it was probably an alternate for a cue that has never been released and ultimately went unused in both TE and EE.

Remember, these are writing dates and not recording dates.

 

13 hours ago, Jay said:

Wait @Jim Ware grew a beard!?

I've had a beard for six years! You've seen it in person!

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

11 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

First thing recorded, but not the first thing written.

Technically, something that started life in the first two films, and was moved to film 3, would be [one of?] the first thing written right?

[Jay 45,771]

6 hours ago, Jim Ware said:

I've had a beard for six years! You've seen it in person!

 

My memory ain't what it used to be!

[BloodBoal 8,485]

Exclusive picture of Jason LeBlanc in 2026, trying to remember Jim Ware's face:

 

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

Everyone else: 

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

@Edmilson No slates, but some decent info here:

 

 

[Edmilson 12,182]

That's an impressive report! And to think this treasure trove was all hidden in the depths of the Tolkien subforum. Loved reading Catherine's report.

 

Some interesting things I could pick up from reading her journal:

• Catherine refers to Shore as "Howard" throughout most of the report. Unless that was her first year with the LPO, then she surely worked with him before Fellowship, as Shore used the LPO on numerous occasions (speaking of which: does anyone have a list of scores that they did together before and after LOTR?). I mean, a little more than a year before that, they were doing Shore's creepy music for The Cell.
• "Every player has a pile of folders, beautifully organised with the music of each section in a different colour. The music is very clear, printed in large notes direct from a computer. Gone are the days of trying to unscramble incomprehensible manuscripts!" - this tells me she had been working with music for a long time by 2001, maybe since, what? The 80s? 90s? I bet it was in the 90s that they started using computers for this stuff. 
• The LPO Fellowship sessions began on September 3, 2001, which was almost five months after he recorded the Moria sequence with the NZSO. Hmm... For some reason, I thought the LPO sessions began earlier than that, maybe July or August. Was he waiting for editing on the whole movie to be complete?
• Fellowship recorded in Watford between Sep 3 and Sep 19, Air Studios between Sep 20 and 25, and Abbey Road from Sep 26 to Sep 30 (or maybe early October).
  • Meanwhile, John Williams was recording Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone at Air Studios between August 28 and September 8, and at Abbey Road on September 11 and 12.
  • It's really cool that two of the most iconic and defining film scores of the century were being recorded almost at the same time, so close to each other. Google Maps tells me it's a 28 minute car ride for the 16 miles (26 kilometers) between the Watford Colosseum and Air Studios in Hampstead.
  • Both Howard Shore and John Williams were in London conducting two of their most famous film scores of their careers when 9/11 happened. And both have deep connections to New York: Williams was born there, and Shore, as Catherine mentions: "Howard lived for ten years in a neighbourhood ten blocks from the World Trade Center and sent his daughter to school nearby.". And both were able to keep their professionalism. 

Now, enough with this boring date crap, let's talk about music!

 

From her report on the first recording session on September 3:

 

Quote

"When the 'black riders' appear, the music is suddenly faster, rhythmic and frightening. Susanna Riddell (my cello desk mate) and I soon discover that we can go up to the control room in the breaks to watch the film and listen to the music. Coffee breaks are forgotten as we get immersed in the film. Computer imaging technology has been used to 'shrink' the six-foot actors playing hobbits and dwarfs. "

In other words: it's highly likely that the first cue recorded for FOTR with the LPO was for a scene involving both Nazgul (black riders) and hobbits. She mentions that she and her colleague went to the control room and saw the technology being used to shrink the actors playing hobbits and dwarves. 

 

Now, I don't remember a scene in Fellowship that has both dwarves AND Nazgul, but they do torment the Hobbits a lot in the first half. 

 

So my guesses for the first thing that the LPO recorded:

• Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe
• A Shortcut To Mushrooms;
• The Nazgul
• Weathertop

My bets are on Shortcut to Mushrooms and Weathertop, but who knows? 

 

Quote

8 September 2001

We manage to start on time. In the control room there is an amazing array of switches. We go up there to listen to the playback and hear a noble cello passage to accompany Gandalf. It is nice to be chosen to represent the good! Then we move on to deeply scary music.

Noble cello passage for Gandalf? Is she talking about this then?

 

 

Then they follow to a deeply scary piece. Unless she's talking about the Lothlórien sequence that follows, I'm pretty sure she's talking about a different cue. Unfortunately, "deeply scary piece" isn't enough for us to discover which cue is that 

 

Quote

17 September 2001

We are on the river Anduin, sailing along with a lovely cello phrase.

 

Argonath?

 

 

Quote

26 September 2001

We have moved to Abbey Road Studio. Howard tells us there is music all the way through the film, except for four minutes. As we are working, the music is being sent down the internet and mixed with the film track. When we go to listen to the playback of the Prologue we joke that we would like to stay there for three hours and see all the film. The Orchestra’s enthusiasm and level of commitment to the film is evident.

I think it's been known for a while that the film version of the Prologue (the "collage of many cues") was the last thing they recorded, so here's the date of when that happened... 

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

According to Doug's book, The first thing the LPO recorded was 2C and it was Gandalf looking at the parchment in Minas Tirith

 

it's possible the noble Cello is Gandalf darkening the room with Bilbo.

 

In July, Shore was working in Eventone Editiorial on composing, reviewing mockups with NZ and prep.

 

Sue Bohling's (cor anglais player) first film with Shore was The Yards

 

Doug's Book mentions Isobel Griffiths taking her son outside because "this looks like it's going to get pretty scary" and "a knife in the dark cutting deeper and deeper" and "Bari'n Katharad"

 

One of the statements of the Seduction of the Ring was recorded in September.

 

Peter Jackson playing the gong was recorded in September 2002

 

Samwise the Brave was recorded October.

[BloodBoal 8,485]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I think it's been known for a while that the film version of the Prologue (the "collage of many cues") was the last thing they recorded, so here's the date of when that happened... 

 

How do you know this is the film version they recorded then, and not The Prophecy?

 

The end of September being the end of the recording sessions seems very early for a Middle-Earth film. I mean, The Fellowship Of The Ring may not have had as hectic a schedule as that of all the following films, but I somehow doubt the score was completed three months before the release of the film.

 

This is a cellist's report. We don't know about the recording sessions that took place without the need of a cello.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

20 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

How do you know this is the film version they recorded then, and not The Prophecy?

 

The end of September being the end of the recording sessions seems very early for a Middle-Earth film. I mean, The Fellowship Of The Ring may not have had as hectic a schedule as that of all the following films, but I somehow doubt the score was completed three months before the release of the film.

 

This is a cellist's report. We don't know about the recording sessions that took place without the need of a cello.

Well, not that it means anything, Doug's book says this "October 2001, the Lord of the Rings' sessions are several weeks old" but then does seem to indicate that further sessions indeed took place.

[Jim Ware 638]

Does anyone have the 2003 issue of Music from the Movies magazine that focused on The Return of the King? It has a wealth of session reports (and I can't find my copy).

[Jay 45,771]

11 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I think it's been known for a while that the film version of the Prologue (the "collage of many cues") was the last thing they recorded, so here's the date of when that happened... 

 

Nope, this would have been the original version of the prologue, the one recorded during the main sessions that ended up (in shortened form) on the OST album.  The revised film version wasn't recorded until after the OST album was locked.

[BloodBoal 8,485]

1 hour ago, Jim Ware said:

Does anyone have the 2003 issue of Music from the Movies magazine that focused on The Return of the King? It has a wealth of session reports (and I can't find my copy).

 

I told you many times: clean up your room! 

[Edmilson 12,182]

9 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

How do you know this is the film version they recorded then, and not The Prophecy?

 

The end of September being the end of the recording sessions seems very early for a Middle-Earth film. I mean, The Fellowship Of The Ring may not have had as hectic a schedule as that of all the following films, but I somehow doubt the score was completed three months before the release of the film.

 

This is a cellist's report. We don't know about the recording sessions that took place without the need of a cello.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Nope, this would have been the original version of the prologue, the one recorded during the main sessions that ended up (in shortened form) on the OST album.  The revised film version wasn't recorded until after the OST album was locked.

Yeah, it makes sense.

 

I thought the recording sessions already took a bit longer than usual, almost a whole month, usually it's one or two weeks, then maybe a few more days of pickups. But that can be explained by the score's pretty long duration (the cellist says Shore told them the movie had constant music in all but 4 or 5 minutes, so I guesstimate about 170 minutes of music at the time). I think Shore's attention to detail, like trying to make the percussion sound just right, also played a role in it.

 

Still, it's reasonable to assume, given what we know, that new sessions were needed for revisions and corrections, like the film version of the Prologue. But in comparison with future Middle Earth movies, this would be like a walk in the park 

[Jay 45,771]

The prologue was the only revision he had to come back and record later.

 

The other rewrites in FOTR (revised arrival at Weathertop, revised Ringwraiths in the river, revised Argonath traversal) were done during the main sessions.

 

All the other "alternates" in this score are really just different take choices and mixing differences (plus PJ's dialing out and tracking I suppose).

 

From TTT onward there were WAY more revisions, as you say.

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

58 minutes ago, Jay said:

The only other rewrites in the whole score are the revised arrival at Weathertop.

Wasn't that tracked from The Sword that Was Broken?

[Jay 45,771]

It's a different recording, and I don't think we ever figured out which scene it was written for first!

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's a different recording, and I don't think we ever figured out which scene it was written for first!

@Jim Ware said it was recorded for the TE version of the Boromir scene and unused, and then the EE re-recorded it at a different pitch.

[Jay 45,771]

Right - but was it recorded for the Weathertop scene or the Narsil scene?

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Right - but was it recorded for the Weathertop scene or the Narsil scene?

See my edit.

 

Would Breaking of the Fellowship count as a rewrite?

 

What about the Nazgul in the Bruinen?

[Jay 45,771]

33 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

Would Breaking of the Fellowship count as a rewrite?

 

Oh I forgot about that one! I guess because the earlier version was from the NZSO sessions, not like the prologue, which was still the LPO, just done way later.

 

33 minutes ago, The Score Cleaner said:

What about the Nazgul in the Bruinen?

 

would that be considered a major rewrite?

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

would that be considered a major rewrite?

I mean, it changes quite a bit of the ending: no big brass (or adds big brass?), no big choir, English choir lyrics instead of just solo vloce.

[Jay 45,771]

Yes, all good points!

[Jim Ware 638]

On 26/02/2026 at 4:29 PM, Jay said:

Right - but was it recorded for the Weathertop scene or the Narsil scene?

Absolutely Narsil - it's too long for Weathertop.

On 26/02/2026 at 4:36 PM, The Score Cleaner said:

What about the Nazgul in the Bruinen?

The short prayer vs. long prayer at the end is the rewrite (presumably when they extended the goofy floating heads montage). The horsey confrontation bit isn't really an alternate - the film and the rarities use exactly the same material. The album and CR present an alternate unused horny option and delete a chunk of material that appears in the film (the CR even uses the album edit here, complete with a bit of tracked Nazgûl material).

[Rachael Foley 10,001]

2 hours ago, Jim Ware said:

(the CR even uses the album edit here, complete with a bit of tracked Nazgûl material).

AHA! So 3:46 is tracked?

 

 

I thought that might be the case, do you know where it was taken from?