Howard Shore's THE LORD OF THE RINGS

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I wouldn't call tracking an alternate. An alternate to me is a piece of music written by the composer.

It sounds literally as if they just kept the temp track.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,326]

Yes.

[mstrox 6,637]

Hi everyone, I have a dumb qrequest and I figured this would be the best place to pose it - does anybody have the three PDF files that were freely available when the CRs were released? And if so, could you fwd them to mstrox at gmail? I know most, if not all, of the material is posed in the book, but I am hoping to have these for archival reasons, as I'm currently going through the scores, along with the book, and really exploring all of the themes for the first time.

As mentioned, I do have Doug's book and all of the CRs - so I'm not looking to steal any info or anything.

Thanks for anyone's help. I don't contribute here often anymore, but I lurk almost every day mainly to see what you are all up to in the LOTR and Hobbit threads.

EDIT- Thanks Incanus, that was fast!

[Incanus 5,713]

The Annotated Scores PDFs do have some discussion that is missing from the finished book, namely on the changes made to the score and alternate music found on the OST albums. The book treats the scores much more like complete entity with very little references to the process of scoring and all the details it entails, inculding rescoring or changes. The In the Making boxes found in the PDFs are entirely absent as is the information they contained, which must have been done to avoid a fragmentary jumpy presentation of the information in the middle of a musical narrative. On the other hand the track-by-track analysis in the Annotated Score PDFs is truncated compared to the finished versions found in the book, which of course was very intentional to save some exclusive content for the book. So both complement each other nicely.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Speaking of ghosts of the past, I just grabbed the old Music From The Movies LotR issue, and I wonder if the alternate Twilight and Shadow ever made it past the mockup/compositional stage.

[Faleel 5,326]

Could it have been Gwenwin In In (sp?)?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Nope, it's a different melody for Renee Fleming.

[Faleel 5,326]

Could you post what the issue says?

Because we have:

Gwenwin In In

Arwen's Song

Twilight and Shadow OST version: (intro is edited out of film/CR version and the string statement of the Evenstar Melody is longer)

Twilight and Shadow CR version

[gkgyver 1,645]

The issue itself doesn't say anything in the interview with Shore about the piece, but the issue shows many sheet music excerpts, parts for chorus, for orchestra, the whole score and so on. One of them is a sheet for Renée Fleming, titled "rotk 1005 1021, Twilight and Shadow". In the above right corner it reads

Howard Shore

words: Philippa Boyens

The Evening Star (Sindarin)

Above the stave, above the tempo mark, it says "CD TRACK #1".

The sheet shows the part for Fleming, as well as the choral accompaniment. And even though the progression is very similar to the OST track, the melody takes different turns and has a more direct quote of the Evenstar theme. I did a quick mockup (the oboe is the Fleming parts, obviously):

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Nope.

If you want to know which OST tracks contain music that doesn't appear in the CRs, you should check Jim Ware's breakdowns:

FOTR OST/CR Breakdown
TTT OST/CR Breakdown
ROTK OST/CR Breakdown

[Jim Ware 525]

Could you post what the issue says?

Because we have:

Gwenwin In In

Arwen's Song

Twilight and Shadow OST version: (intro is edited out of film/CR version and the string statement of the Evenstar Melody is longer)

Twilight and Shadow CR version

The 'live to projection' version of Twilight and Shadow includes unique material that is not present in any other version.

[crocodile 7,973]

Can't wait to hear it this Sunday!

What else should I look out for?

Karol

[mstrox 6,637]

Could you post what the issue says?

Because we have:

Gwenwin In In

Arwen's Song

Twilight and Shadow OST version: (intro is edited out of film/CR version and the string statement of the Evenstar Melody is longer)

Twilight and Shadow CR version

The 'live to projection' version of Twilight and Shadow includes unique material that is not present in any other version.

Are there any other changes the the live-to-projection movies? When I went to see FOTR at Wolf Trap in September, there were a few moments that sounded unfamiliar, but it may have just been a different sound, or because I haven't watched the theatrical version in many years.

I'm pretty sure in the scene with Gandalf and the mop, the orchestra didn't drop out from under the soloist in the live version - just kept drumming.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What mop?

[crocodile 7,973]

Could you post what the issue says?

Because we have:

Gwenwin In In

Arwen's Song

Twilight and Shadow OST version: (intro is edited out of film/CR version and the string statement of the Evenstar Melody is longer)

Twilight and Shadow CR version

The 'live to projection' version of Twilight and Shadow includes unique material that is not present in any other version.

Are there any other changes the the live-to-projection movies? When I went to see FOTR at Wolf Trap in September, there were a few moments that sounded unfamiliar, but it may have just been a different sound, or because I haven't watched the theatrical version in many years.

I'm pretty sure in the scene with Gandalf and the mop, the orchestra didn't drop out from under the soloist in the live version - just kept drumming.

There were quite a few in The Two Towers. All those howling sound effects for the ring were dropped in favour of Shore's music and the Gandalf resurrection also had music. And also, at the very beginning of the film, when Gandalf and Balrog fall this great choral outburst is back and as heard on the albums. Bits and pieces like that.

I'm sure Jim has a complete breakdown of all this somewhere. That's why I'm asking him as well.

Karol

[mstrox 6,637]

What mop?

The mop that flies away to get the eagles, of course!

[Jim Ware 525]

I'm sure Jim has a complete breakdown of all this somewhere. That's why I'm asking him as well.

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/fotr_live_notes.pdf

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf

I am searching my archive for ROTK. Off the top of my head -

Smeagol/Deagol fight

Gollum transformation prologue

Most stuff that was dialled out except the Pippin/Gandalf balcony conversation

Some extra chorus in places

Shelob stalking Frodon

Contrapuntal arrangement of ring themes at Mount Doom

[crocodile 7,973]

Thanks. It definitely shows how much of a treat these performances are for someone who actually knows these scores well.

Karol

[Incanus 5,713]

I really wish the second and third installments of the trilogy were performed here in Finland. The FotR performance was fantastic.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[crocodile 7,973]

As has been said before, in The Return of the King, you get to hear some bits and pieces that were written but never recorded.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

It's not all new music. Some is on the CR's, PJ just removed it from certain scenes.

I saw the first and second films done at Radio City over the past 4 years. Stunning. Return of the King has been conspicuously absent since.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sure Jim has a complete breakdown

Really? Has he been working too hard? Family issues?

[Incanus 5,713]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[whisper]I heard the bitch dumped him...[/whisper]

[Jim Ware 525]

This thread is worryingly close to reality!

[Jay 37,249]

It's not all new music. Some is on the CR's, PJ just removed it from certain scenes.

I saw the first and second films done at Radio City over the past 4 years. Stunning. Return of the King has been conspicuously absent since.

I was at those concerts too! (they are where I met Doug Adams, Jim Ware, and John Takis in fact). Both were amazing concerts and I am so bummed ROTK is seemingly never happening.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

On 10/25/2013 at 8:32 PM, Jason LeBlanc said:

On 10/25/2013 at 2:07 PM, TheGreyPilgrim said:

It's not all new music. Some is on the CR's, PJ just removed it from certain scenes.

I saw the first and second films done at Radio City over the past 4 years. Stunning. Return of the King has been conspicuously absent since.

I was at those concerts too! (they are where I met Doug Adams, Jim Ware, and John Takis in fact). Both were amazing concerts and I am so bummed ROTK is seemingly never happening.

It's a real shame.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,249]

The Fellowship concert was in 2009

[Incanus 5,713]

Makes you wonder what is the problem. I mean RotK Live would certainly be a success. Perhaps it is scheduling problems?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

It is frustrating. By the time it should have happened, I had a sizable group of family and friends attending those concerts and really digging them.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Makes you wonder what is the problem. I mean RotK Live would certainly be a success. Perhaps it is scheduling problems?

I don't know how successful it was. When I was there, I still got tickets (good seats) on the night of performance, and I remember it not being sold out.

[Incanus 5,713]

Makes you wonder what is the problem. I mean RotK Live would certainly be a success. Perhaps it is scheduling problems?

I don't know how successful it was. When I was there, I still got tickets (good seats) on the night of performance, and I remember it not being sold out.

Then people are boorish louts who do not understand good music even if it walked right into them and said "Hello I am good music"! And I don't think the ticket prices are too high either, especially when you consider the cost of a single ticket to a normal pop concert.

[Jim Ware 525]

I'm sure Jim has a complete breakdown of all this somewhere. That's why I'm asking him as well.

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/fotr_live_notes.pdf

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf

I am searching my archive for ROTK.

And here we are -

http://www.metronomical.plus.com/rotk_live_notes.pdf

[Incanus 5,713]

Your notes are excellent Jim! Many thanks!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Thanks! Looking forward to going through those!

[Faleel 5,326]

Hey Jim Ware, are the brass overlays that are present in the OST version of "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields" (but not in the CR) present in the Live version?

[crocodile 7,973]

I'm sure Jim has a complete breakdown of all this somewhere. That's why I'm asking him as well.

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/fotr_live_notes.pdf

http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf

I am searching my archive for ROTK.

And here we are -

http://www.metronomical.plus.com/rotk_live_notes.pdf

Oh thank you so much, I'll keep it for my record.

Karol

[Kühni 485]

.

[crocodile 7,973]

Few more attempts you'll be doing this job next year in Wellington

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Yes, I hope you've acquired more economy of motion in your conducting if you want to be accepted by me!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Since I am new to this board, but not new at all to the LotR discussion, I should probably establish my credentials, eh?

http://tinypic.com/r/e6zs4w/5

http://tinypic.com/r/2aan6ah/5

http://tinypic.com/r/29w0pz5/5

Yeah, I'm that kind of fan! (These videos are over six years old...I have since improved my conducting skills! I still crack up watching myself...) KK, GK, Jim Ware and Incanus can also vouch for me, should they so choose. I once had Guinness with Doug Adams in Illinois and we remained on speaking terms thereafter.

I'm also German, so everything is my fault, not Conrad Pope's.

Carry on!

Thursday night, I felt compelled to conduct the first two discs of Two Towers ... again.

Amazing how short two hours can feel with a stick in your hand.

Eh ,,, wait