Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • 9 months later...
  • Replies 581
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Twenty years ago today, Howard Shore took to the podium in front of the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra at Wellington Town Hall for the first Fellowship of the Ring recording session. 

Sorry to interrupt that discussion but I just can't stop marvelling at the way the Minas Tirith theme is played (after equally lovely attacca transition from Caras Galadhon/Lament for Gandalf) by solo

I think composers are rarely as involved as Shore was on all six films. 

  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/7/2020 at 7:56 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

Organic?

 

Yes, organic. 

As in creating a musical equivalent to skillfully crafted poetry, as opposed to creating the musical equivalent of merely functional instruction manual language. 

 

11 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Outside the classical realm?

 

Outside the realm of music that was created for its own sake. 

There are choral pieces in opera and such that reach an even more transcendental level. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

There are choral pieces in opera and such that reach an even more transcendental level. 

 

Does anything in the following sound familiar?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2020 at 12:39 AM, Chen G. said:

Why? Why?!

 

Also, this:

 

 

:biglaugh:

 

8 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

Easily.

 

And Russian Church Singing tops it all, to me.

 

Having sung in two lay Russian choirs (and one Ukrainian one), I confirm and second this. Here are seven not-so-random pieces that I have repeatedly touted among my all-time most favourite pieces of music (the last one of which I have actually sung the solo in concert):

 

 

 

 

 

This one I couldn't find on Youtube: "In Thy Kingdom" (Dimitrij Bortnyansky): https://vocaroo.com/enZvtOVTati

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Did anybody notice that Shore's shire theme melody/melodies are based on the Fibonacci sequence? 

1 2 3 5 8 13

 

C D E G C A or C D E G A C

 

The 1 2 3 5 13(6), minor and major, plays a major part in his scores. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

This has probably been asked before, but since I could only find ambiguous breakdowns: Does anyone have a comprehensive, simple list of LOTR OST track titles that contain material not present on the CRs? I don't need to know what material, just the track names alone would be great.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

This has probably been asked before, but since I could only find ambiguous breakdowns: Does anyone have a comprehensive, simple list of LOTR OST track titles that contain material not present on the CRs? I don't need to know what material, just the track names alone would be great.

 

FOTR - every track except A Journey in the Dark and The Bridge of Khazadhum

TTT - The Passage of the Marshes, The King of the Golden Hall, The White Rider, The Forbidden Pool, Forth Eorlingas

ROTK - A Storm is Coming, Hope and Memory, The White Tree, Twilight and Shadow, Cirith Ungol, Anduril, Hope Fails, The End of All Things, Into the West

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2020 at 2:13 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

The CRs should really be renamed The Incomplete Recordings.

 

They're fine if that's what they wanted to go for, the main body of the scores as a single presentation. 

What's a tragic case is the rarities archive CD, which is one of the most staggering missed opportunities I can remember. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, gkgyver said:

What's a tragic case is the rarities archive CD, which is one of the most staggering missed opportunities I can remember. 

 

I would argue that was always going to be the case. Wasn't there talk back in 2008/09/10 about multiple CDs, then a DVD? And the cue selection was never going to be an objective, or else complete-ish, one. "We" wanted (even more now, in retrospect) the RA to fill the gaps from the three scores rather than, I would suspect, the demo and synth versions of early cues.

 

Howard Shore and Doug had a slightly different focus, and that's fine, too (with the sole exception of the alternate "The Breaking of the Fellowship", of course...I made it QUITE CLEAR over Guinness that Doug ought to use every ounce of his persuasive strength to have it included). The completely alternate versions of early stuff that made it to the recording stage are great. But even an 9-minute gem like "Sammath Naur" has chunks of music that were now on CD for the third time. And I would have gladly listened to Howard and Doug analyse the music for another hour. So....Rarities 2, anybody? :wave:

 

Again, I'm not going to let the 0.5% that are less than perfectly represented sully the 99.5% of this music that are! But I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and remain vexed about it. Yes, VEXED! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m more than happy with what we have, but every now and again I do think it could have been good if, between the Two Towers and Return of the King CRs, we would have another CR made up of alternates.

 

But again, between the OST, Rarities, fan-credits and CRs I’m more than happy. Even if the OST didn’t contain alternates, it would still be worth owning alongside the CR for those cases where one wants a more concentrated listening experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
4 hours ago, gkgyver said:

I mean the drum orchestration particularly 3:13 onwards and 5:34 onwards in Siege Of Gondor. 

 

Taikos, yes, but there's more. It's hard to hear.

 

The passage you're referring to has four side drums* and timpani. No taiko.

 

*The term "side drum" can direct percussions toward a number of different instruments. It's a sort of fuzzy term that requires a knowledge of a composer's intentions. Shore's concept is of a deep drum -- a field drum -- with no snares. That last bit throws a lot of orchestras off. I've seen Howard ask percussionists to please the snares off, I've seen Ludwig Wicki ask it, and I've asked it. Howard and Ludwig tend to be nicer about it than I am. But I'm usually the most jet-lagged of the three of us. ;) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now I'm torn between the two versions of this particular segment: one included on the OST and the theatrical edition of the film, the other is on the CR.

1:07

Notice the trumpet line that is removed in the CR. I love both renditions where one sounds slightly more foreboding, and the other more regal just with the inclusion/exclusion of that one instrument. 

@6:34

 

This whole track is probably one of my favourites from the trilogy, there's a lot of yearning and mystery, especially around 4:54ish when this solemn theme enters and it really captures the feelings of the Fellowship at that moment in the film before they're broken apart.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Doug Adams said:

 

The passage you're referring to has four side drums* and timpani. No taiko.

 

*The term "side drum" can direct percussions toward a number of different instruments. It's a sort of fuzzy term that requires a knowledge of a composer's intentions. Shore's concept is of a deep drum -- a field drum -- with no snares. That last bit throws a lot of orchestras off. I've seen Howard ask percussionists to please the snares off, I've seen Ludwig Wicki ask it, and I've asked it. Howard and Ludwig tend to be nicer about it than I am. But I'm usually the most jet-lagged of the three of us. ;) 

 

I'm surprised professional percussionists wouldn't know about that use. 

Are we talking about the "standard" 14" or 16" field drums, or those explicit bass field drums? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

I'm surprised professional percussionists wouldn't know about that use. 

Are we talking about the "standard" 14" or 16" field drums, or those explicit bass field drums? 

 

It's not that they don't know of the use of that term, but many aren't familiar with the Rings scores per se, so they have to guess at what's being called for. Fortunately, as performances circulate more and more, these scores are becoming part of the modern repertoire, and so percussionists are better prepared. 

 

Size is left to the performers. It's not specified. But I've never seen drums larger than 16 inches being used, I don't think. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally gave in and spliced the OST beginning of Pelennor onto the CRs version. I think it's one of, like, four instances out of 12,000 tracks where I had to do this, but I ever so slightly prefer the fade-in of the drums as heard on the OST to the somewhat-abrupt start of the CR...

 

...and for some reason, I now have an image of Nazgûl!Doug standing behind the percussionist, being like: "Take the sssnaresss off. Now! Or I'll have my Fell Beast over there take your head off." Followed (or not) by a Nazgûl wail. And Éowyn on (Old) English Horn standing up etc.

 

What I mean to say...Doug and not being nice about anything is a leap.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Kühni said:

I finally gave in and spliced the OST beginning of Pelennor onto the CRs version. I think it's one of, like, four instances out of 12,000 tracks where I had to do this, but I ever so slightly prefer the fade-in of the drums as heard on the OST to the somewhat-abrupt start of the CR...

 

...and for some reason, I now have an image of Nazgûl!Doug standing behind the percussionist, being like: "Take the sssnaresss off. Now! Or I'll have my Fell Beast over there take your head off." Followed (or not) by a Nazgûl wail. And Éowyn on (Old) English Horn standing up etc.

 

What I mean to say...Doug and not being nice about anything is a leap.

 

My midwestern guilt makes me feel like I'm being meaner than I probably am. At least I hope that's the case.

 

I once attended an orchestra's first rehearsal where they decided to start with the Shire music. About 5 seconds after their first note, I started hollering: "Stop, stop, stop! Basses are supposed to be half pizz. half arco, not all arco!" The conductor (not Ludwig) responded, "I checked the recording and didn't hear that." I told him to go check again. Somebody dubbed me the Niles Crane of film music for the remainder of that week. I don't think they meant it flatteringly.  

 

PS: The basses changed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
9 hours ago, gkgyver said:

I so desperately wonder how Shore's music for Valinor or Gondolin would sound like. 

Extension of Rivendell's sound? Extension of Lorien's sound? 

 

You could say the Grey Havens theme relates to Valinor. On the other hand, Amazon could use it as a theme for Lindon all the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2020 at 3:39 AM, gkgyver said:

I so desperately wonder how Shore's music for Valinor or Gondolin would sound like. 

Extension of Rivendell's sound? Extension of Lorien's sound? 

 

Don't we have a glimpse of that? As per Doug's Annotated Score:

 

"10 – THE PASSING OF THÉODEN
The Army of the Dead pours over the walls of Minas Tirith, overwhelming the simple-minded Orcs with fear and destroying them. But no victorious music emerges. Cor anglais sorrows over minor-moded strings. King Théoden lies dying upon the Pelennor. Éowyn crawls to his side and he looks upon her smile one last time. Chorus somberly intones “Death of a King” in Old English, but this is not the music of Men. This is music of the next world, tones one step closer to the music of Valinor. The World of Men fades away. With a final remembrance, French horn recites the Rohan Fanfare. King Théoden, son of Thengel, passes."

 

 

@Quintus wouldn't be too far off the mark if we take this as an example...

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kühni said:

tones one step closer to the music of Valinor.

 

I suppose by that, musically, he means towards the Grey Havens material.

 

Someone like the Amazon showrunners could be literal-minded and take that theme for a Lindon theme, but it really speaks to the Grey Havens not so much as a place, but as a passage to Valinor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.