Howard Shore's THE LORD OF THE RINGS

[Brónach 1,301]

Hurt? Nonsense!

[Incanus 5,713]

Phew, I am glad that's over. I was afraid I would be witnessing the break-up of the century.

[alicebrallice 134]

nooooo! chaac edited his post.

I thought it was cute. this could've turned into a lovefest.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

nooooo! chaac edited his post.

I thought it was cute. this could've turned into a lovefest.

WHAT? What did I miss? I didn't the post before the edit! What did he say??

[Jay 37,281]

I think they could have pulled of including the Scouring of the Shire in this film adaptation if you restructured from the beginning to be a 4 film series instead of a 3 film series

[alicebrallice 134]

nooooo! chaac edited his post.

I thought it was cute. this could've turned into a lovefest.

WHAT? What did I miss? I didn't the post before the edit! What did he say??

oh I can't tell you that. wouldn't be right.

he'll tell you, when he's ready.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,301]

nooooo! chaac edited his post.

I thought it was cute. this could've turned into a lovefest.

WHAT? What did I miss? I didn't the post before the edit! What did he say??

oh I can't tell you that. wouldn't be right.

he'll tell you, when he's ready.

[Quintus 5,399]

There's so much middle-of-the-road tension in this thread, it's unbearable.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,281]

Film 1 would have the Moria sequence as its climax instead of the battle of Amon Hen, which means they'd have room to add Tom Bombadil or other pre-Bree stuff. Maybe even have time to explain that 17 years is supposed to pass between Bilbo's 111th birthday and when Frodo leaves the Shire with the ring. The ending would be leaving Lothlorien without Gandalf but still a Fellowship determined to destroy the ring.

 

Film 2 would start with the trip down the river and the breaking of the Fellowship, and the climax would be the Black Gate for the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story and the Helm's Deep battle for the human story. So the ending for the human characters would basically be like current TTT film, with them outside after battle and the whole "the battle is over but the war has just begun" line, and then the end for the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story would be with Gollum telling them he knows another way in to Mordor, and you put his "she will take care of them" conversation there.

 

Film 3 for the human characters would basically start as the ROTK film does now but the climax would be the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story would start with all the Faramir stuff so you meet him before Gandalf arrives at Gondor still, through the entire Shelob sequence. So the end for the human characters would be the witch king is dead and the battle is won but many are wounded, and the Hobbit/Gollum story would end as TTT book does, with Sam taking the ring as Frodo is taken by the Mordor orcs and Sam taking off after him.

 

So Film 4 would start with the clean-up after the battle and the houses of healing, etc for the humans, go through to the battle at the Black Gate which would be bigger and longer than the current version. The destruction of the ring would be about halfway through, then you have Aragorn's coronation and then the whole Scouring sequence before the Grey Haven ending.

 

I think that would work. Some of the stuff they made up for the original trilogy wouldn't be needed any more, and you'd have room to adapt more book stuff, and you'd still have room to expand on some of the things they expanded on that worked like Arwen's character and stuff. And all 4 movies would have a major action set piece, (Moria in Film 1, Helm's Deep in Film 2, Pelennor Field/Gondor in Film 3, and Black Gate in Film 4)

[KK 3,307]

Then what the hell should be done with Saruman?

Maybe they could have made that he is left alone in his tower, bitter about everything, thinking on whatever. Maybe it's not that important.

I felt what they did to Saruman was a suitable scene and reconnects the audience to the one of the major villains of the past 2 films. The audience wants an end to this character, and so they provided it. I personally love the scene. It pays homage to the "Voice of Saruman" chapter (which is one of my favourites) and the manner of his death in "The Scouring of the Shire".

The Scouring of the Shire would simply not have worked in film. It's far too anti-climactic (in film. It worked well in the book). Think about it, the audience has been drained emotionally after the big battles of Gondor and the Black Gate, and the characters all having gone through massive near-death experiences. They've all had their reunions and all is good in the land, but guess what...its not over! And then yet another battle with hobbits this time around would simply have turned people off to the film. Cinematically, it just doesn't work.

The Tom Bombadil scenes also would not have worked. This would be a character they would stumble upon once and never see him again, making his appearance in the film redundant. Characters like Galadriel and Elrond are also only seen once by the fellowship as well, but the films managed to keep the audience connected with those characters through the means of alternate storylines and flashbacks. Tom Bombadil's appearance would have been inconsequential, making it needless baggage to the film.

In the books of course, it's completely different. Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire have important roles in the work as a whole. There's many moments like that, which is why the LOTR films were meant to be impossible to film. But Jackson did the best job anyone could have done with the material.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,301]

Looking at how PJ is handling The Hobbit I think he would have considered something like that if they had allowed him.

[Jay 37,281]

I agree

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I can't say I'm a big fan of these guys (I don't like everything they've done). But I will I admit I was rather impressed by this. Not your average LOTR arrangement. And from their blurb, its clear they've spent a lot of time on this with coordinating the varying motifs.

Too bad they weren't very accurate with naming them, but that's me being picky (they could have bought Adams' book ).

Kudos to them. I enjoyed this quite a bit.

Now I've got to listen to the real stuff! Another round of the CRs for me.

[Incanus 5,713]

Pretty neat!

[Joe Brausam 214]

I liked it enough to buy the single from their website - it's a nice arrangement!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

That performance is little bit too cheesy but otherwise nice. Very nice actually.

[KK 3,307]

What's the theme from The Hobbit they incorporated into the medley? Is it the Misty Mountains theme, or some other that is on the OST?

There is no melody from the Hobbit. It's all LotR stuff. I guess they're just doing it in honour of the Hobbit I guess.

That performance is little bit too cheesy but otherwise nice. Very nice actually.

Their performances usually are over-the-top (especially the Bourne one). But it wasn't a bad arrangement.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I'm not a big fan of their arrangement, to be honest (and that comes from someone who loves a lot of their work). It's a bit uneven: some neat stuff, and some not so neat.

From 0:00 to 0:18. It seems like he's playing a few notes wrong (or maybe not, but something sounds off at 0:05), which is weird because Schmidt knows how to play the piano!

Nothing wrong, just different harmonies. I didn't like it very much.

From 0:45 to 1:48 Didn't even recognize Twilight And Shadow at first. Nothing terribly exciting here. Not worth being put in the arrangement in my opinion. There are much better parts in the score that would have been worth including instead of that one (Lothlorien theme, anyone?)

It's a lovely theme and particularly endearing on the cello. I liked it.

From 2:32 to 2:56 Bloody awesome! Love that arrangement of the Isengard theme! Love the pause at 2:53, as well.

I wasn't particularly fond of this rendition....verging too much on some hard core rock (don't like how they put the Mordor descending third there).

From 2:56 to 4:11 Another of those moments that are nice, but don't really offer much when compared to the original.

From 4:11 to the end: THE GONDOR THEME! Fuck yeah! You can't wrong with this one! (I mean, even a techno or rock arrangement of that theme would sound great!) Awesomeness at its finest! Easily the best part of the arrangement.

Agreed. It's such a fantastic theme and they really brought it out.

I think a lot of my problems with these guys are their over-the-top acting. It's hard to watch sometimes

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I meant the acting, not the actual playing.

I especially hate it when they seem like they're playing such deep music when they're just stupid ostinatos.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

I couldn't concentrate on the music because the video itself was cringe-city hilarious.

[KK 3,307]

That's often the case with these guys.

[Barnald 365]

I was going to bump up The Hobbit thread with this but I may as well post it here. Snippets from 'An Evening with Howard Shore', which was held last week:

http://www.blog.filmarmy.ca/2013/05/invisible-melodies-an-evening-with-howard-shore/

Aside from the LOTR insights, I found Mr Shore's thoughts about directors falling in love with their temp tracks very interesting, given what may have occurred with The Hobbit. Scorsese might not use music from other movies in his films, but I wonder who might?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,281]

The correct thread for that post would be What Is The Last Film You Watched?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

*sniff*

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't know what part this is referring to, but what works as music and what works on film are two pairs of shoes.

Could be Shore preferred one take musically, but chose another for the film.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I was under the impression Shore wrote music away from the picture as well, after visiting sets, reading the book, script and so on.

And like you said, scenes change. What was written for one version doesn't have to match the next version.

What happens in the editing room however, is of course out of Shore's hands.

For example, I never understood why small things were changed that aren't consequential for anything. Like the trumpet fanfare on The Great River. Never understood why it's only present on the OST.

[KK 3,307]

The thing is, Jackson's LotR/Middle-Earth films, moreso than the norm, are most often subject to changes, and especially last minute ones at that. A single sequence can have 10-20 variations, either because Jackson wants to add more effects shots, or just change the edit. This consequently has Shore scoring multiple versions of the same scene, resulting in many small or large variations in a single cue. This is why LotR, and the Hobbit are so notorious for its many alternates.

But as GK mentioned, there are strange times where certain layers of music are removed in film for no apparent reason whatsoever. Overall though, I think The Hobbit had much more head-scratching moments in terms of the music...and its only been one film

[Incanus 5,713]

The film makers were very meticulous with Lord of the Rings and that goes with the music. Everything written on this matter (by Mr. Adams for example) points to that they actually discussed the score and its impact, thematic choices and the rest thoroughly even during the post production and recording process and PJ was very conscious of Shore's themes and work as a whole but also conscious of what he needed from the score. Small tweaks due to the reshaped edits and rethinking of some thematic choices and connotations easily account for the numerous changes in the music. We can't always explain these changes and they seem odd but there must have been reasons for them in the film makers' mind that might not be as apparent to us as to them.

[Faleel 5,330]

there are also SFX/Dialogue vs. music reasons to consider.

[Incanus 5,713]

there are also SFX/Dialogue vs. music reasons to consider.

Yes it is definitely one of the factors. And it is surprising how those little nuances are the ones the film makers take the greatest pains over. Is it s a horn or is it a trumpet? Should that hardanger solo be removed because it doesn't please the director for some reason? A gong hit there or here? I have seen those concerns voiced in several film scoring documentaries where they do go to that intricate level of musical detail when trying to hone that final section of a cue to perfection.

[Faleel 5,330]

And of course, reel changes.

[gkgyver 1,645]

there are also SFX/Dialogue vs. music reasons to consider.

Yes it is definitely one of the factors. And it is surprising how those little nuances are the ones the film makers take the greatest pains over. Is it s a horn or is it a trumpet? Should that hardanger solo be removed because it doesn't please the director for some reason? A gong hit there or here? I have seen those concerns voiced in several film scoring documentaries where they do go to that intricate level of musical detail when trying to hone that final section of a cue to perfection.

Then Jackson definitely lost sight of those musical intricacies because putting a cue like The Breaking Of The Fellowship, which draws massive attention to itself, and also lives from being in the spotlight, over a simple dialogue scene between Gandalf and Galadriel clearly shows very little scoring sensibilities.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I didn't actually notice it in the cinema (all I seem to remember was the whistle and I love when it comes in). I wish I was on these forums ten years ago with the hype for FOTR and with most people ending up loving the film and music.

Really? As BloodBoal said, one of the worst moments in film. Just as distracting as the Nazgul music. It naively uses one of the most emotional and memorable pieces of music (written for one of the most well-known scenes from LotR) of the original trilogy to act as a backdrop to a simple conversation. It seemed very emotionally manipulative and made what could have been a sweet scene, sound very cheesy.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I didn't actually notice it in the cinema (all I seem to remember was the whistle and I love when it comes in). I wish I was on these forums ten years ago with the hype for FOTR and with most people ending up loving the film and music.

Really? As BloodBoal said, one of the worst moments in film. Just as distracting as the Nazgul music. It naively uses one of the most emotional and memorable pieces of music (written for one of the most well-known scenes from LotR) of the original trilogy to act as a backdrop to a simple conversation. It seemed very emotionally manipulative and made what could have been a sweet scene, sound very cheesy.

Exactly. It's not the scene itself that was cheesy or bad, the bad music placement made it so. Would have never happened 10 years ago.