Is Dracula (1979) Soundtrack Lost to Time?

[RICHARDSTRAUSS68 107]

I've heard and seen many things to let me believe the recordings and sheets were lost to time, but under recent study I've seen that they aren't I've seen sheets and since the movie was put into blue-ray I believe they would've used master tapes to bring the audio to quality standards. I have also heard varsee is planning a new release. Does anyone have any knowledge of this or when it may become available?

[Thor 7,465]

No, it's not lost to time. It's been available on a gorgeous soundrack album ever since the movie came out in 1979 -- first on LP, and then later on CD. That CD may be difficult to come by these days, though, so a reissue would be beneficial for new fans.

[Bespin 8,480]

Another score on my wish-to-be-reissued-list!

[publicist 4,643]

It will probably be re-recorded by James Fitzpatrick at some point, if he continues his series of re-recordings. Tapes can always turn up but a 1979 LSO recording that didn't turn up at UMG/Universal until the 2010's are a doubtful proposition. 

[Thor 7,465]

3 minutes ago, publicist said:

It will probably be re-recorded by James Fitzpatrick at some point, if he continues his series of re-recordings. 

 

I wish Fitzpatrick forgot all about that, and threw himself over STORY OF A WOMAN instead.

[TownerFan 4,983]

According to LLL's MV Gerhard, only mono tapes from the original sessions were found so far and they don't even sound very good. The recent blu-ray release is 2.0 audio only, so it's likely they only had a music/fx stem to work with. According to some people at the FSM boards, Varèse is still searching for the best-sounding source possibile to re-release the title. The sheet music of the full score is archived at the Universal Studios library, so it's definitely possible to do a re-recording--I wouldn't hold my breath, though. Fitzpatrick expressed interest to do a full re-recording with the City of Prague Philharmonic, but these things take a lot of time and, in case of JW, a cooperation with his people to get access to the material.

15 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

I wish Fitzpatrick forgot all about that, and threw himself over STORY OF A WOMAN instead.

 

Fitzpatrick pays all the Tadlow re-recordings out of his own pocket and it's known he prefers other composers than Williams for his own series (Jarre, Goldsmith, Rozsa, Tiomkin). But it's mostly a problem of access to the material. Studios don't loan out easily Williams scores in their archives without his own permission.

[Thor 7,465]

49 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

Fitzpatrick pays all the Tadlow re-recordings out of his own pocket and it's known he prefers other composers than Williams for his own series (Jarre, Goldsmith, Rozsa, Tiomkin). But it's mostly a problem of access to the material. Studios don't loan out easily Williams scores in their archives without his own permission.

 

The STORY sheet music is available for rental outside the studio system, and I doubt Williams would stand in the way (even if he could).

 

But you're right that Fitzpatrick only does his own favourite stuff, and he's not that "hot" on Williams. When I suggested this to him once, I believe he said something a la "sure, just pay up and I'll do it for you". So it's clearly not a high priority on his list.

 

What IS of highest priority, though, is getting all the unreleased music out there first before turning to scores (like DRACULA) that already have a release. And people always say "but it's never a matter of either/or", but it damn well is!

[crumbs 14,301]

I'm sure if Williams were told the studio sessions are lost/destroyed (possibly in the Universal archive fire) he wouldn't stand in the way of a re-recording. Unless he hates the score, why intervene? Who knows, maybe he'd offer to conduct it himself! 

 

JW says he rarely revisits his older work, almost being embarrassed by them, but I still think he'd be mortified to know the recording sessions of an entire score were lost forever. Isn't it the same scenario with Jane Eyre?

[TownerFan 4,983]

18 minutes ago, Thor said:

The STORY sheet music is available for rental outside the studio system, and I doubt Williams would stand in the way (even if he could).

 

No, it's not available for rental. The sheet music is archived in the Universal Studios music library, and you might ask to loan it for a variety of purpose, but it's up to them if yes or no. It's not like a regular music rental, where you pay a fee and they loan it for a certain amount of time. It's studio property. From what I've been told, usually they allow people into the library for study purposes only, but they don't allow to take sheet music outside.

[Thor 7,465]

30 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

No, it's not available for rental. The sheet music is archived in the Universal Studios music library, and you might ask to loan it for a variety of purpose, but it's up to them if yes or no. It's not like a regular music rental, where you pay a fee and they loan it for a certain amount of time. It's studio property. From what I've been told, usually they allow people into the library for study purposes only, but they don't allow to take sheet music outside.

 

Maybe I'm confusing it with the symphony, but didn't someone post a link to the STORY sheet music at some point -- available for rental to anyone who had the money to fess up?

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Maybe I'm confusing it with the symphony, but didn't someone post a link to the STORY sheet music at some point -- available for rental to anyone who had the money to fess up?

 

Yes, that was the Symphony, which was available for rental through Chester Music until a few years ago (now it's been totally retired).

 

Full film scores are never available through those services for rental for concert performance or recordings (unless it's concert suites, but those are a different thing). The studios usually archive everything in their own libraries (or let third party music service agencies do the jobs for them, i.e. JoAnn Kane Music Service), but usually don't loan anything easily.

[Jay 37,287]

4 hours ago, dillweed97 said:

I've heard and seen many things to let me believe the recordings and sheets were lost to time, but under recent study I've seen that they aren't I've seen sheets and since the movie was put into blue-ray I believe they would've used master tapes to bring the audio to quality standards. I have also heard varsee is planning a new release. Does anyone have any knowledge of this or when it may become available?

 

The original sheet music prepared for the film's recording sessions is not lost to time.  It all exists just fine.

 

The original master tapes of the recording sessions could be lost to time.  Us plebes don't know all the details the industry professionals do, but from various posts on boards across the years, it seems all that may have turned up is a mono music-only stem of the final film's audio track (meaning it could have edits and bits of cues dropped).  Maybe the session tapes were lost in the Universal fire, maybe they just got filed wrong and will turn up when a label works on another project - who knows.

Varese seems to hold the current license to release the music so another label can't work on it.  If Varese is choosing to prepare a new release soon or hold out as long as possible in hopes that material turns up, we don't know.

 

Certainly the original LP could be put back on CD for those of us who don't have it.  Whether or not that presentation will be followed by additional music from the mono stems remains to be seen.

[TownerFan 4,983]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

I'm sure if Williams were told the studio sessions are lost/destroyed (possibly in the Universal archive fire) he wouldn't stand in the way of a re-recording. Unless he hates the score, why intervene? Who knows, maybe he'd offer to conduct it himself! 

 

JW says he rarely revisits his older work, almost being embarrassed by them, but I still think he'd be mortified to know the recording sessions of an entire score were lost forever. Isn't it the same scenario with Jane Eyre?

 

I think Williams still prefers to keep himself busy with the music he's working on at the moment. He probably doesn't feel the urge to re-record a full score from 37 years ago, even if the original recording is lost or destroyed. However, he performed the End Titles from Dracula in concert quite a few times in recent years, so it's likely not on the list of his own works he doesn't like at all  It would be great if Dudamel or Denève would offer to conduct a re-recording, I'm sure they both love that score.

[Sandor 796]

I'm so glad I started collecting in 1993. In the mid 90's, I bought this CD just in a regular record shop in Rotterdam.  

[Thor 7,465]

2 minutes ago, Sandor said:

I'm so glad I started collecting in 1993. In the mid 90's, I bought this CD just in a regular record shop in Rotterdam.  

 

Same here. I amassed most of my Williams collection in the mid 90s to early 2000s. Which meant I had easier access to some of these Williams soundtracks that have basically only had ONE CD pressing, i.e. the pressing that came with the introduction of the medium itself. Like DRACULA, STANLEY & IRIS, EARTHQUAKE, THE EIGER SANCTION etc.

 

Of course, at the same time time we also had to struggle with rarities such as WITCHES OF EASTWICK, ACCIDENTAL TOURIST, the Japanese TEMPLE OF DOOM import, the Japanese SPACE CAMP import, the original Silva JANE EYRE and so forth. Most of these titles have been reissued since our "collecting heyday", so that's where younger fans have had easier access.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 hours ago, Sandor said:

I'm so glad I started collecting in 1993. In the mid 90's, I bought this CD just in a regular record shop in Rotterdam.  

 

I had to go to Alkmaar to buy it, from something they has back in the day called a "record store".

 

[Jay 37,287]

It's one of the only JW OST CDs I don't own

I'd be happy with a straight reissue so I can own it.  Please, Varese!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You can have mine for €200!

[Jay 37,287]

I'll wait for whatever future version may be released.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You sure? Mine is the original "vintage" version!

[mstrox 6,647]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's one of the only JW OST CDs I don't own

I'd be happy with a straight reissue so I can own it.  Please, Varese!

 

Same.  I recently picked up Presumed Innocent and Stanley and Iris, found for decent prices.  Now it's just The BFG, Dracula, The Eiger Sanction, Earthquake, The Cowboys, and The Reivers.

 

I also only have Heartbeeps and The Towering Inferno as downloads, and if they ever get rereleased on disc I'll probably upgrade.

 

(of course there's also a small handful of specialty label releases which sold out before I was aware of such things, but I'll never pay those aftermarket prices either.  Reissue or die!)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ok, because we are friends, i'll let you have it for €195, but you are ripping me off here!

 

Dont tell my wife I'm doing this, cause she will think I'm a sap!

[Nic Cage Fugue 19]

So I take it I should go pick it up from the record store I was at last night that had the LP for five bucks?

[Jay 37,287]

Whether or not a new CD reissue is forthcoming should have no impact on your decision to purchase an LP or not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have the LP too!

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I've got the LP as well. Seems to be a lot easier to come by than the CD. But $5 is a good deal, anyway.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

I'm so glad that I bought the LP in July, 1979, and the CD in 1990-whenever.

 

It may be 2.0, but the Blu ray is, in fact, in Dolby Pro Logic, and the music has an ok surround spread. A little tweaking, and one could get a decent sound from the 35mm stems.

[Josh500 1,615]

I have the OS album on CD.

 

It's good, but it's not in my Top 10 or even 20.

 

I want to see the expanded editions of the Harry Potter movies, the Jurassic Park movies, and the Star Wars prequels first.

 

By the way, it occurred to me that the "Dracula Main Title" might be an ancient forefather of "The Chamber of Secrets"...

[TownerFan 4,983]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

It may be 2.0, but the Blu ray is, in fact, in Dolby Pro Logic, and the music has an ok surround spread. A little tweaking, and one could get a decent sound from the 35mm stems.

 

The Blu sounds very good, but I think they only had music/fx combo stems (as conformed to the final edit) to work with.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

To quote Billy Joel: you may be right, I maybe crazy. I'll check, tonight, but I seem to recall a stereo spread on the Blu.

 

Edit. I get what you mean. Would that suffice, if that's all that was on offer, as a 2-CD set with the OST?

[Jay 37,287]

John Williams certainly wouldn't approve the release of his music that has film sound effects over it.

[Andy 4,085]

This thread makes me sad.  This may not be to the level of Superman the Movie, but this is Golden Era Williams.  The only blockbuster score from his '75-'84 reign to not have a decent re-release/and or expansion.

[Jay 37,287]

Isn't it depressing when huge corporations can't vault their one-in-a-lifetime recordings properly?

[karelm 2,903]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Isn't it depressing when huge corporations can't vault their one-in-a-lifetime recordings properly?

 

You really don't know it's important until after the fact.  Remember, every one who worked on Star Wars thought it was at best a teenage summer flick rather than a multi-billion dollar worldwide phenomenon with 7 films, spin offs, games, etc.  In old Hollywood they used to throw away the scores after the recording.  There are many famous scores by the great Golden Age composers that is in a trash dump since it's goal was to get recorded and no one thought it would be important or worth keeping for no real reason other than the future significance of the composer or film.

[Jay 37,287]

I know - all that is depressing!

[publicist 4,643]

4 hours ago, karelm said:

There are many famous scores by the great Golden Age composers that is in a trash dump 

 

Rather, they just erased the tapes to record new stuff onto it. Same thing but still...

[karelm 2,903]

6 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Rather, they just erased the tapes to record new stuff onto it. Same thing but still...

 

I actually meant the scores themselves were lost.  All of the Rozsa MGM scores were tossed. Some of his sketches may have survived (I think they're at Eastman) but not the full orchestrations. Anyone doing those now would have to rebuild them from piano conductor scores or takedowns. Herrmann's slightly different because he orchestrated everything himself and much (but not all) of that has survived. Virtually none of the Korngold sketches exist; but the orchestrations done for the WB pictures survive because WB saved everything, or nearly everything, and they're at the WB archive that USC administers.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

Nic Raine. Calling Mr. Nic Raine.

[Thor 7,465]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Nic Raine. Calling Mr. Nic Raine.

 

I think James Fitzpatrick is the guy to call. He's the producer of these rerecordings, and he's the one who hires Nic Raine for conducting duties. But as I said earlier, if you're going to rerecord Williams, then PLEASE, pretty please with sugar on top -- rerecord something completely unreleased!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

Agreed, but I mentioned Nic Raine because he did such a wonderful restoration-job on "RTT".

[Amer 2,080]

I remember James Fitzpatrick was interested in recording it. But decided against it when he heard the news that some tapes were available and that a release was imminent (i.e. before it was realised that these were mono tapes only) Apparently he had some rather odd luck with a few re-recording projects which he had premiered as complete scores and only to have another label reissue the original recordings in complete form (OBSESSION, CONAN THE BARBARIAN) 

[crumbs 14,301]

Well, fuck:

 

Quote

Although I can not go into too much detail about the following, a very reliable source of mine had the following exchange with three people involved in the original dubbing and recording of 1979's DRACULA.

Most unfortunately, following the original sessions held at Anvil studios, most of the master stereo tapes were ERASED. This was done at the time for outrageous reasons, i.e.: crass commercial ones. Anvil Studios was then in deep financial trouble, hence most of the surviving tapes were erased and reused for other commercial purposes. 

This is very sad news indeed. Personaly, I can't believe the late Eric Tomlinson would have approved such an awful turn of events. Suffice to say, the people in charge at Anvil Studios then were responsible for such a terrible decision, just a few months shy before their closing in mid-1980 (August '80.)

 

Quote

Unfortunately I can confirm this information (coming from the same source I guess, Christian ). 

 

Well, at least we know it wasn't destroyed in the Universal archive fire; turns out it hasn't even existed for about 4 decades!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is.

[crumbs 14,301]

I don't understand how an industry secret like this could possibly stay secret for so many decades?

 

Nor how duplicates of the original master tapes wouldn't have been made... like, seriously, what the fuck? The only existing copy of this score is whatever exists on the film stems?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

crumbs, it's more common than you might think.

 

I've been re-reading this thread. It's interesting. A few options:

1/ if VS wanted, they could remaster it from either the tapes, or, if they don't own that, either a vinyl, or CD copy. It's been done, before. They could even remix it in 5.1, if they wanted to, as the technology exists to do this (just ask Steven Wilson).

2/ Nic Raine could reconstruct the score, by ear. Sure, it would take a while, and would end up a "labour of love", but, hey...

3/ I can't believe that JW does not have his sheets for this. If he doesn't have them, where are they?

4/ petition VS to rerelease the OST.

[crumbs 14,301]

I thought Williams kept the original handwritten sheet music for every score he's written in leather-bound folders? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No. He keeps it all in PDF now. On a USB stick.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Thing is, he doesn't know how to use it. That's why he can't share them with people who would like to have it to release the music.

[crumbs 14,301]

Right next to his digital keyboard?