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Nick1066

Worst Scene in The Hobbit?

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The absolute worst scene in the Hobbit films, to me at least, is the Legolas/Ravenhill action sequence. Even describing the sequence hurts, because you realize that PJ actually put time and effort into something so horribly bad.

 

It begins with Legolas jumping onto a giant bat, flying upside down and decapitating 100 orcs before killing the bat, then conveniently falling onto a tall tower. After sniping a number of orcs, he launches a sword about 500 feet and perfectly impales an orc. He then proceeds to jump from said tower, breaking his fall by lodging his sword into the brain of a disfigured troll. He then uses said sword to control said trolls movements like a joystick, causing him to crash the tower across a chasm where he proceeds to have the most ridiculous fight possible with Bolg the orc lieutenant. Physics are defied and defiled alike. Jumping up falling rocks? Money, time and energy was spent by a lot of people to make all of that dreck possible. 

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On 23-9-2016 at 7:03 PM, goldeneye said:

The absolute worst scene in the Hobbit films, to me at least, is the Legolas/Ravenhill action sequence. Even describing the sequence hurts, because you realize that PJ actually put time and effort into something so horribly bad.

 

It begins with Legolas jumping onto a giant bat, flying upside down and decapitating 100 orcs before killing the bat, then conveniently falling onto a tall tower. After sniping a number of orcs, he launches a sword about 500 feet and perfectly impales an orc. He then proceeds to jump from said tower, breaking his fall by lodging his sword into the brain of a disfigured troll. He then uses said sword to control said trolls movements like a joystick, causing him to crash the tower across a chasm where he proceeds to have the most ridiculous fight possible with Bolg the orc lieutenant. Physics are defied and defiled alike. Jumping up falling rocks? Money, time and energy was spent by a lot of people to make all of that dreck possible. 

 

I like that!

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1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

So @Chen G., what are your least favourite The Hobbit scenes?

 

That's actually a very interesting question! and its interesting because I like the films.

 

I wouldn't know how to point out to any one scene, though. The fact that I like them doesn't mean I like everything in them: not by a long-shot.

 

So, let's see. Just about every scene with Tauriel from her healing Kili going forward: especially her confrontation with Thranduil. It just doesn't work for me. I'm also not a huge fan of Legolas' stunts on Ravenhill. I don't mind his fight with Bolg, per se, but in watching it, I can't ever escape the feeling that Tauriel was more narrativelly deserving of being the one to kill him. It makes the fight feel kind of satiatying fans of Legolas more than doing what was appropriate to the story.

 

It should however be said that I haven't watched the sextet in quite some time: I'm working to remedy that, so my conclusions may change slightly.

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44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

That's actually a very interesting question! and its interesting because I like the films.

 

I wouldn't know how to point out to any one scene, though. The fact that I like them doesn't mean I like everything in them: not by a long-shot.

 

So, let's see. Just about every scene with Tauriel from her healing Kili going forward: especially her confrontation with Thranduil. It just doesn't work for me. I'm also not a huge fan of Legolas' stunts on Ravenhill. I don't mind his fight with Bolg, per se, but in watching it, I can't ever escape the feeling that Tauriel was more narrativelly deserving of being the one to kill him. It makes the fight feel kind of satiatying fans of Legolas more than doing what was appropriate to the story.

 

It should however be said that I haven't watched the sextet in quite some time: I'm working to remedy that, so my conclusions may change slightly.

 

A lot of those scenes are indeed obnoxious, but I keep going back to the Laketown refugees attempting to murder Alfrid. He's an awful character (both in character and as a character), but I can't think of anything in these films more antithetical to the spirit of Tolkien than a mob of supposedly decent people trying to beat someone to death like a pack of raging orcs.

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I see what you're saying, but for me personally that's complementary to the chaos following the destruction of Laketown. Its very much consistent with historical examples of the aftermath of such catastrophies: think about mass murder of Jews during the outbreak of the Black Plague. Its essentially a further exploration of the line "down with moneybags", and it helps to set up Bard's nobility.

 

Still, I see your point. And it reminds me: I also dislike Alfrid's scenes in the Battle of the Five Armies. As you said, its an obnoxious character. He could work in extremly small doses though (not that there's all that much of him, thankfully).

 

Like I said, interesting topic!

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One of the worst scenes for me in those films is the confrontation at Dol Guldur in film three. Not because it is the worst executed scene but because it feels so unexciting and unnecessary. All the build-up for this?

 

Karol

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What did you expect?

 

Its not spectacular, but I like the use of the environment: Wraiths get knocked down the edge of Dol Guldur, grab unto the wall and climb back up and leap at Saruman or Elrond; and that light-show when Galadriel confronts Sauron is bonkers.

 

Its good that they tied it back to the main plot, by making Sauron the mastermind behind the Orc attack that initiates The Battle of the Five Armies. The appendices make it clear enough that, had the quest of Erebor not been undertaken or had the Orcs won, the outcomes will have served Sauron's purpose all the same.

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Worst scene in The Hobbit was certainly NOT Legolas climbing the fallen boulders!

 

It was done extremely well, and isn't against anything Tolkien wrote at all.

 

I don't mind the content of the fight too much, although I'm yet to revisit the film. I mind that, narrativelly, Tauriel is more deserving of taking down Bolg. Legolas does have an earlier brawl with him so there's that going for it, and there's actualy a payoff there: In both fights, Bolg has a strategy of grabbing unto Legolas' sword, which in the later fight the Elf anticipates and uses to overcome his opponent. The fight is also the way in which Legolas gives Orcrist back to Thorin, which I like.

 

In terms of Legolas' stunts I much more mind him using a bat to fly across Ravenhill and especially an extended scene where he, hanging upside-down on the bat, takes down hundreds of Orcs. Generally I like him (and Tauriel, for that matter) more in The Desolation of Smaug than in The Battle of the Five Armies. But his role in both is minor enough that I don't mind it all that much. Especially now on the small screen where one can fast-forward through some of those beats.

 

I dunno.

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The scene with Tauriel and Thranduil “because it was real” might be the worst. It’s awful.

 

Might actually be the worst scene in any film ever come to think of it... you can tell the actors are thinking “Oh God, I’m I actually saying this?!?”

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There are much worst movies which much worst scenes, but yeah I don't care for those beats in the slightest. Really, the majority of Tauriel and Legolas' story in The Battle of the Five Armies is my least favorite aspect of the film.

 

I don't have an issue with the scene as a whole, though: a bit of prequel-itis there with the Aragorn reference but that's fine; a nice long-ish take as Thranduil walks into Ravenhill, too. I would just have cut it with Legolas going off and be done with it. The fact that we see Tauriel give Kili the runestone back is enough for me.

 

I think it would have been best to, until the very end, maintain a romantic ambience between the characters rather than an outright romance. That's why the tipping-over point for me is the scene where Tauriel heals Kili. Everything that takes place prior to that, I'm fine with.

 

Legolas crosses over at around the same time: Without him, The Desolation of Smaug wouldn't have anywhere near the right amount of action, plus he helps keep Thranduil in the loop of the story. But in The Battle of the Five Armies, Thranduil shows up quite early, and there's no shortage of action, so his presence starts to overstay its welcome quite early on. Doesn't mean I don't want him in the movie, though.

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1 minute ago, Jerry said:

The way I see it, we would never have gotten this.

It's just a fabulous rendition.

Yeah, shame it's all butchered in the film.

 

Karol

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2 hours ago, KK said:

Wish we heard more organ for all that stuff

 

Yes. Even if it is something of a cliché use of the organ, it fits Sauron's theme like a glove.

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16 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

LOTR quoting JWFan > SW prequels quoting JWFan

 

How wude.

13 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

As was Tolkien! As is Lord of the Rings.

 

Its a strange criticism to make alright. It’s a very catholic work. 

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Even in Christianity it’s not confined to Catholicism. 

 

Titanic’s sister Britanic was supposed to have a pipe organ fitted. A Belfast ship with a German pipe organ. Nothing too Catholic going on there!

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Orgol (which "coincides", as many Tolkien names are wont to do, with old English for "vanity") is Tolkien's intended name for the character of Saeros from The Children of Hurin.

 

By the time Christopher uncovered the fact that his father intended to rewrite Saeros as Orgol, it was too late to retcon the entire Silmarillion.

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Isn't there an index at the end of each book?

 

That's one of my favorite things about Tolkien: while he wrote narrative works, they're supported by so much scholary background. Even with no prior knowledge, you just feel that the man who wrote this was a professor. That's perhaps the aspect of his work that distinguishes it from the works of other writers in the field.

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The Hebrew translations have a great index with succint explanations, but than they were translated by a Tolkien scholar rather than just any common translator.

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On 7/8/2018 at 5:39 AM, Chen G. said:

Orgol (which "coincides", as many Tolkien names are wont to do, with old English for "vanity") is Tolkien's intended name for the character of Saeros from The Children of Hurin.

 

By the time Christopher uncovered the fact that his father intended to rewrite Saeros as Orgol, it was too late to retcon the entire Silmarillion.

 

There is a lot of stuff that JRRT intended to change and never did. I know some people consider only final intent to be canon, but personally I don’t worry about that so much, and just enjoy the extant texts as they’ve survived. If pressed, I’d say for me the “stable state” of the mythology would be as it existed in the early 50s, at the point he was finalizing the LotR manuscript. I happen to prefer the early name for that character, Orgof. But the Narn should definitely read Saeros, because that’s how that work stands, despite that Tolkien once penciled “Orgol” into a margin somewhere.

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I don't think the design's too bad: I like that he has all this metal attached to his body. Looks like a frankenstein-type monster. He's got bear claws for epaulets - referring to what Beorn says about Azog (and, evidentally, Bolg as well) torturing skin-changers.

 

Its just that sometimes the CG on him is shoddy. Other times it looks fine. He's a minor character, anyway.

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Still amazes me how The Hobbit somehow manages to looks worse than LOTR despite a decade of advancement in CGI. Very littler in The Hobbit looks grounded.  

 

The prequels have the same problem.

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