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Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available


mrbellamy

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Anyone who have made fun of Giacchino's Rogue One or think it's so bad, whatever reason, should check out this video and then revise their opinion.

 

 

 

 

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The one cool thing about the video is that it helped me finally locate where that flute motif came from. I was certain it showed up at some point in the OT, but couldn't find where exactly. It's a nice little connection, but again, it doesn't suddenly turn the score into a masterpiece.

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19 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I just watched it.

 

My opinion of the score hasn't changed. It's OK, but not great. The fact that he used the same scale or whatever for the title card music doesn't make it sound less clumsy.

 

So nothing that wasn't contained in the Star Wars Oxygen episode that I've already heard? Grand.

 

ok but not great probably sums up my own views. 

 

Desplat should have scores it 😜

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Amateurish video.  This is supposed to change opinions?  Nah, it's just a very weak score.

 

Also, are there really any Giacchino "haters" here, as in, people who hate him or his music?  No, there are people who aren't fans.  "Haters," in the parlance of our times, are, I think, born when those who are fans try to dismiss those who aren't as having illegitimate opinions, and the latter become more vocal in response.

 

Don't scoff at people who don't like what you like, and they probably won't become overblown in their criticism.  This ship has sailed on JWFan, though.

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6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I've never been a hater, and I'm probably the one who's been vocally critical the longest. I found him lacking over 15 years ago and I find him lacking today.

 

I had hopes during Lost, even after the first Star Trek and even Super 8.  John Carter could have been really something but was compromised by a terrible recording and weak themes.  After he took his break, I thought he might really shift into gear.  It didn't happen, and his scores have consistently given me no reason to think things will change from what is basically a downwards trajectory.  It's too bad.  He has moments that betray a very sharp musical mind.  I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around.

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I listened to this score this morning, wanting to give it another chance.  I had to pause it around the halfway point for lunch break.


When I came back, I moved on to another score, couldn't even bring myself to finish it.  It's just not my cup of tea

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I think the sheer majority of it is quite good. When he's in full John Williams pastiche mode it actually is quite fun. I prefer it to most of his works. Artistically, it was never to achieve much anyway.

 

Karol

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Frankly, his action music has always been his weakest point for me.  It's why my favorites tend to be his scores for Pixar and projects like Tomorrowland (which has some action, but not very much)

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Oh I think he's written great action cues throughout his whole career, but yea my favorite scores of his - LOST, Super 8, and Tomorrowland - aren't centered on them

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8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Oh I think he's written great action cues throughout his whole career

 

I agree there have been some great ones, just not his greatest strength for me.  Now, the problem with Rogue One is that every Giacchino score lives and dies by the strength of its themes, and I think RO's are poor.

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I've never heard a Giacchino score before but if I had listened to Rogue One not knowing who the composer was I would have assumed it was John Williams. 

I like the Rogue One score overall, but mainly the action cues. 

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1 hour ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Bizarre how no real "haters" and few real "lovers" can lead to such nasty sounding discussions as occur around Giacchino's name.

Seriously, I get the impression I am more positive on him than most here, but really he's not in my top ten composers either.

 

But all these heated discussions on him... To say it is painful to read would be an understatement!

It really gives me zero pleasure (and a lot of the opposite) whenever I see it crop up yet again.

It's really over the top and I wished people here could find something more positive and interesting to talk about instead.

Pretty please...?

 

But do you see how this request is precisely what I'm talking about?  There are tiring opinions on here I'd rather not read, but I'd never presume to ask anyone to not talk about them or express them.  You are asking people to bite their tongue - why should they?  I think it is a dangerous policy to make such a request based on what you don't want to hear.

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Hence the reason why Giacchino should have his own subforum. People can bash him and share their opinions on his works there.

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14 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

But do you see how this request is precisely what I'm talking about?  There are tiring opinions on here I'd rather not read, but I'd never presume to ask anyone to not talk about them or express them.  You are asking people to bite their tongue - why should they?  I think it is a dangerous policy to make such a request based on what you don't want to hear.

Why would you focus on the one thing that is not just repeatedly painful to read due to its persistent negativity,

but dreadfully boring at the same time because it has been said a gazillion times already?

 

For goodness' sake: Say something interesting. Say something new. Say something positive. Say something that makes this place better.

That's all I would wish for. I'm not asking for a "dangerous policy". I'm asking of the goodwill of the forum members here.

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28 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

Hence the reason why Giacchino should have his own subforum. People can bash him and share their opinions on his works there.


Perhaps 2 separate subforums, one for Giacchino bashing and one for Giacchino praising? I fear trying to contain such toxic quantities under the same roof may prove hazardous on a biological level.

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57 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:


Perhaps 2 separate subforums, one for Giacchino bashing and one for Giacchino praising? I fear trying to contain such toxic quantities under the same roof may prove hazardous on a biological level.

Also a third for people that feel indifferent towards Gia.

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7 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:


Perhaps 2 separate subforums, one for Giacchino bashing and one for Giacchino praising? I fear trying to contain such toxic quantities under the same roof may prove hazardous on a biological level.

I fully support that claim!

At the moment, it has reached the point that I barely read anything on the forum anymore, least of all the Giacchino threads, purely because of that.

 

Maybe instead of having different fora, perhaps it could be handled by having different threads on the same forum.

Certainly I would welcome the opportunity to choose whether I want to read something positive or something negative about him.

Then at least the choice would be *mine* instead of having the current toxic discussions pretty much forced onto me.

 

6 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Might as well throw in a fourth and fifth for people who feel mostly and slightly indifferent, but occasionally enjoy some of his output. 

LOL! Isn't that '"pretty much everyone"?

 

Seriously, I couldn't care less whether people do or don't enjoy his output and to what extent.

For the people who do like him, good for them! Why should anyone object to that?

And for those who don't, that's their full right; I sincerely hope they have other music to enjoy instead.

 

One way or another, there's no need to disagree on any personal level.

I don't really care who enjoys his music, who doesn't and to what extent.

What I do care about are the needlessly toxic posts on the subject that are regurgitated over and over and over again.

 

"Needless" because, as far as I can tell, the discussions aren't even between actual haters and lovers.

It seems to be between people who are slightly on the positive side of indifference and some who are slightly on the negative side.

In other words: heated and toxic discussions by two groups of people who barely even disagree in the first place!

Seriously, just how insanely stupid is that?!?!?

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5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

If you don't care about who enjoys his music and who doesn't and to what extent, then why read the threads that are exactly about discussing his music, and then complain that people do just that?

 

Maybe he thinks that it's absolutely unneccesary for the disagreements to descend to a personal level, as indicated in his post? And maybe he enjoys seeing some level of constructive discussion as opposed to the flat-out bashing going on with some of these posts? Like such classics as "I fucking hate Gia fans" when somebody mentions that they think certain works from said composer are "amazing". That seems to shift from mere dislike for a work to apparent contempt for people who like his work. It's not necessary. It's uncalled for. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot: somebody said "I fucking hate Williams fans". If it's trolling, it's not obvious (and we know there are users on here who tend to post on the shitposty side of things a little) but it's gone from criticising a composer's work to bashing people who like those works.

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12 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

If you don't care about who enjoys his music and who doesn't and to what extent, then why read the threads that are exactly about discussing his music, and then complain that people do just that?

Because I am on the positive side of liking him and I am curious if there is any news or any new insights.

Maybe even some recommendations, because I am extremely short on time and can only focus on highlights.

 

15 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

You're a fine member of this community, Pieter, and I like you, but this post is just bullshit! If you're gonna make such a request to ask people to keep talking about the same stuff over and over again, then please stop mentioning the fact that you hate the "dark and dreary" trend in movies nowadays over and over again!

Fair enough. I do feel strongly about that particular subject, but indeed I suppose I've made my point by now.

If you and/or other people don't appreciate me mentioning it, I will stop.

Not a problem. :)

 

13 minutes ago, Gistech said:

 

Maybe he thinks that it's absolutely unneccesary for the disagreements to descend to a personal level, as indicated in his post? And maybe he enjoys seeing some level of constructive discussion as opposed to the flat-out bashing going on with some of these posts? Like such classics as "I fucking hate Gia fans" when somebody mentions that they think certain works from said composer are "amazing". That seems to shift from mere dislike for a work to apparent contempt for people who like his work. It's not necessary. It's uncalled for. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot: somebody said "I fucking hate Williams fans". If it's trolling, it's not obvious (and we know there are users on here who tend to post on the shitposty side of things a little) but it's gone from criticising a composer's work to bashing people who like those works.

Well said; that is indeed exactly what I mean. :)

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12 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Maybe reading reviews of his scores would be a better alternative, then. ;)

Who says I don't? ;)

 

12 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Nah, I don't have a problem with it. Was just using this as an example that would help you understand what I'm trying to say.

Then I'll use the opportunity to use the same example.

You made a perfectly valid point and therefore I would be perfectly willing to drop it.

If more people are willing to do the same, I believe we're on the right track. :)

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Can we go back to discussing the Rogue One score in this thread now?

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26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Can we go back to discussing the Rogue One score in this thread now?

Sure.  Can I complain that the end titles aren't on the CD?  'Cause I will!

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3 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Sure.  Can I complain that the end titles aren't on the CD?  'Cause I will!

 

Yeah, what was up with that? It didn't feel like a Star Wars CD without the full end credits suite. Or the main title, but that wasn't in the film and I don't even know if they recorded their 'practice run'.

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Even if the end titles were included, it still wouldn't feel like a Star Wars score because...

 

 

...it's not a true Star Wars score. It was composed by someone whose initials aren't "J.W."

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3 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

Even if the end titles were included, it still wouldn't feel like a Star Wars score because...

 

 

...it's not a true Star Wars score. It was composed by someone whose initials aren't "J.W."

there's been plenty of scores that have well lived up to the Star Wars legacy and added enough of the composer's own flavor to be great in their own right. John Williams established the sound and themes but I think its perfectly reasonable for there to be a 'true' Star Wars score without him.

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8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

there's been plenty of scores that have well lived up to the Star Wars legacy and added enough of the composer's own flavor to be great in their own right. John Williams established the sound and themes but I think its perfectly reasonable for there to be a 'true' Star Wars score without him.

 

Granted, there are some who can mimic the "Williams' feel" quite well, and can even make scores that live up to the quality of J.W.'s own Star Wars soundtracks, but there's that feeling deep down that, at least to me, acknowledges the fact that no matter how great the other composer's work may be, it's not the real deal.

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20 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

Even if the end titles were included, it still wouldn't feel like a Star Wars score because...

 

 

...it's not a true Star Wars score. It was composed by someone whose initials aren't "J.W."

Would it be a Star Wars score is Jack Wilson composed the music? Or maybe even Joan Walrus? How about Jason Wibbelsmeck?

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12 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

 

Granted, there are some who can mimic the "Williams' feel" quite well, and can even make scores that live up to the quality of J.W.'s own Star Wars soundtracks, but there's that feeling deep down that, at least to me, acknowledges the fact that no matter how great the other composer's work may be, it's not the real deal.

that's fine. I know there's a lot of people that personally feel that way. funnily enough, I have trouble seeing TFA as a 'true' Star Wars score beyond the excellent new themes, a lot of it just didn't do it for me like the Prequels and the Original Trilogy did. in addition, I'm having that trouble with the new movies that just feel like really high-production fan-films, they're missing something that is quintessentially Star Wars but I don't really know what.

 

me personally, there are four soundtracks that have given me the feeling of a true Star Wars score:

~ Knights of the Old Republic 2 by Mark Griskey
~ The Force Unleashed by Mark Griskey
~ Knights of the Old Republic 1 by Jeremy Soule
~ Star Wars the Old Republic by Mark Griskey, Gordy Haab, Lennie Moore, Wilbert Roget II, Jesse Harlin et al.

 

KOTOR 2 in particular really took the Star Wars sound in an interesting direction. the score is much darker in tone, with a very thick atmosphere of ancient evil and dread, all the tracks feel very cohesive if a bit same-y bar a few tracks. despite this, its very essence is Star Wars, and I think that's a mark of a truly great composer that's able to take someone else's material, put a spin on it, and have it still recognisable as the original material.

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15 hours ago, Jay said:

I don't really see how including the new recording of the start of the '77 end credits would have improved the album program in any way.

Although I would say that the score for Rogue One wasn't exactly fantastic, I think it does make a better listening experience in the FYC/complete score than it does on album. When you have a comparatively weaker score, why not make it a two-disc release and just include everything?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I tried to give this score another full listen through recently and I think I've identified my biggest issue with it. Overall, I think it is a fine score that is much better music in terms of serving the film than it is standalone. Gia is a huge JW fan and part of my issue with the score is that I can hear him trying to sound like JW's Star Wars music, particularly with the Imperial themes and the Hope theme. I can't shake the feeling of parody. At the same time, I think the melodies themselves are actually quite good. Jyn's theme is kind of lyrical, Krennic's theme is menacing and camp,The Whills theme is probably the most beautiful music in the score. The biggest issue I find is in the orchestration and the writing of the supporting material around the major themes. This score was written on a compressed schedule and it shows. Gia needed time to refine the music. It's far too busy for it's own good. 

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On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, Demodex said:

I've never heard a Giacchino score before but if I had listened to Rogue One not knowing who the composer was I would have assumed it was John Williams. 

 

I don't think many here would have made such an assumption.  I don't always know when a piece is by Williams or not (I thought the Disney park video could have featured pieces from VIII), but RO sounds very little like Williams in its original music.  If I knew nothing of film music, I might suppose the music is from the same guy who did the recent ST movies.  The themes are meh, and I find the orchestrations rather thin.   

 

On the note of the Disney video, I would love to hear that guy do a standalone SW movie.

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1 hour ago, artguy360 said:

I can't shake the feeling of parody. At the same time, I think the melodies themselves are actually quite good. 

 

This has been the uneasy feeling I've gotten from the score from the first time I saw the movie.  The first time I heard his Imperial theme I literally groaned sitting there in the theater.

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

I thought his Krennic theme felt genuine and the new imperial theme felt somewhat parodical as 'Look it's the bad guys who are not Nazi's in space!'.

 

^ Exactly this.

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