Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Ah, "personal preference" playing an important role in music and art, eh? 

 

Calling Desplat's music (in toto) shitty is not a matter of 'personal preference', it's just a sign of the supreme shittiness of said poster.

[leeallen01 2,134]

I bet Giacchino is sat in his writing room just laughing to himself and thinking "I haven't even written half yet and people are already buying it..."

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

 

Calling Desplat's music (in toto) shitty is not a matter of 'personal preference', it's just a sign of the supreme shittiness of said poster.

Where did anyone say that? I sure didn't.

 

Actually, I totally agree with you there. And also with the reverse, with Desplat's name replaced by Giacchino's.

I don't think either of them honestly deserve having their music called "shitty". Not that that will stop people from doing so anyway....

 

But anyway, that's that "personal preference" thing at play again.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Not all personal preferences are created equal.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yeesh

[publicist 4,643]

15 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Where did anyone say that? I sure didn't.

 

I just took off the ball where you and our moody feline left it. Desplat's harmonic language does not appeal to everyone for sure, but he's got a range and technical ability that should account for more than throwaway insults - the same goes for Giacchino, of course, though he is the decidedly lesser talent. At least if you are a music person, the film sticklers might disagree.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Yeesh?

Come on, you've been here too long to get riled up by that.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

You're right. I'm institutionalized now.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I'm honestly quite tired of the "Giacchino is shit" argument.

Regardless of whether he is the best composer ever or not, anything truly negative is really undeserved.

I have yet to hear a score by him that doesn't enhance its film and gives at least something to enjoy on album as well.

 

He's not my favourite composer ever; not even in my top rankings. But then, neither is Desplat.

And really, both of them are better than certain other "popular" composers these days.

Near as I can tell, Desplat is more technically accomplished, but Giacchino has a tendency to write more enjoyable music (at least for me).

In other words: They both have their own pros and cons. Hence, "personal preference".

 

But then.... I should know better than saying things like this.

I know how fond people here can be of having the same arguments over and over.

Who am I to stand in your way?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

18 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

I'm honestly quite tired of the "Giacchino is shit" argument.

Regardless of whether he is the best composer ever or not, anything truly negative is really undeserved.

I have yet to hear a score by him that doesn't enhance its film and gives at least something to enjoy on album as well.

 

You have yet to hear a score by him etc.  You.  You.  Someone else may find him to have ruined countless films and to be responsible for dreadful albums - in other words, a shit composer.  What of them?  You're tired of other people having different personal preferences than you do.  Here you are acting as though your own frame of reference on this is the right one, and everyone else has a skewed perspective, but that's also the thing you don't want done to you.  So long as people do this sort of self righteously hypocritical opining, there will be others who call bullshit on it, so I think it's time to end the victimized Giacchino fan act and accept that some people hate what you like.

[KK 3,307]

Ah Grey, I like you.

 

Anyways, there aren't many films that I can remember where Giacchino's score really elevates what happens on screen. They're competent, often well-scored, rarely more than that. Up is a good example where his musical instincts does wonders though. In fact, that goes for all of his Pixar features. He excels in that niche.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Me indeed. Personal preference, as I've been saying all along.

 

I'm quite willing to accept that different people have less, or even NO appreciation for Giacchino's music.

In fact, I am hardly his #1 fan at all, as should be readily apparent from my above posts.

Though I get a response as if I've been gushing over him from day 1, which is... uhm... not even remotely close to the truth.

Entertaining notion though!

 

Anyway, none of the above makes his music objectively shitty, let alone making him a shit composer.

Yet whenever I see his name being mentioned, more often than not somebody feels the need to say something along those lines anyway.

And I do find that genuinely unfair for the simple reason that ultimately it is all about personal preference.

More than anything else though, the continuous stating of the same thing over and over is just tiresome to read.

 

But anyway, this is me attempting to make sense while arguing against what is most likely a brick wall.
So really, what's the point? It's not like people are going to take my posts here very seriously, are they?
Not when it is so much more fun to take parts of them out of context and misinterpret them.

 

29 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Someone else may find him to have ruined countless films and to be responsible for dreadful albums - in other words, a shit composer.

Correction: "In other words, a composer who that person considers to have done [those things] and therefore has no appreciation for."

The words "a shit composer" suggest it is a statement of fact, which it is not.

 

31 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

You're tired of other people having different personal preferences than you do.

Correction: I am tired of people voicing the same arguments over and over. And I am tired of people stating opinions as facts.

At no point have I objected to people having different personal preferences. In fact, what I have been saying is the polar opposite.

 

35 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Here you are acting as though your own frame of reference on this is the right one, and everyone else has a skewed perspective, but that's also the thing you don't want done to you.

This just gets funnier the further it goes.

Considering my frame of reference is "the perceived quality of the music and the composer is personal preference",

I'm inclined to say that maybe, just maybe, my frame of reference indeed IS right.

 

Had I claimed that "Giacchino is objectively a great composer" or "Desplat is objectively a shit composer", then of course you would have a valid point.

But I claimed no such thing and have no intention of doing so. What I did claim is that "Giacchino is not objectively a shit composer".

 

37 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

So long as people do this sort of self righteously hypocritical opining, there will be others who call bullshit on it,

Except that's not what I did.

 

38 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

so I think it's time to end the victimized Giacchino fan act and accept that some people hate what you like.

Fair enough. As long as it goes both ways, of course.

Which also means that the Giacchino haters accept that some people like what they hate.

Logic that applies only one way but not the other is the very definition of hypocrisy, after all.

 

Since that is basically exactly what I've been arguing, it does appear that you merely disagree with a point I never made,

but do agree with the actual point that we've been making.

 

So.... case closed?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

2 hours ago, KK said:

Ah Grey, I like you.

 

It was worth it for this sentiment, then!

 

But I am trying to move past such old silliness and just let people be comfortable in their thinking.  I don't have the inclination for it anymore.  Sick have I become.  Old and weak.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's not yet time for you to take the ship, is it White Rider?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Once people stop rallying against the stupifying devotion for Gia, the mase master of orchestral mediocrity, perhaps it is time to head to the havens....

 

#StayAngry

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

And I do find that genuinely unfair for the simple reason that ultimately it is all about personal preference.

 

Up to a point, yes. But then i heard THAT argument all too often - by film music fans and else - and it's fair to say it's a low relativist statement that really fits a time when standards (musical, in our case) have been lowered to the point where being an actual 'composer' with style and values has become a hazard for film and tv productions. Before you act all upset, no this is not directed at you in particular but it's a mindset that has made possible tons of bad entertainment and should be fighted where possible (imho).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

"Fighted"?

[publicist 4,643]

With vengeance!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

There are enough composers whose work really, REALLY don't interest me.

Ones who can actively make me lose interest in a film because they're pretty much guaranteed to write something truly bad or even horrible.

 

This is mainly the MV/RC crowd though. Maybe the "sound design" ones too.

I'm inclined to say that Giacchino is at least better than those particular ones.

 

Is it acceptable to hold a "middle ground" position or is that really more controversial than either of the extremes?

I don't hate Giacchino and do strongly believe grouping him with the worst of the worst is taking things too far. Rather, I like a fair bit of his music.

On the other hand, he's also not one of my absolute favourite composers either.

 

For Rogue One, I've never been a very great fan of Desplat, but I was quite curious what he'd come up with.

He does seem to have the technical ability to write something truly amazing, but he never quite lived up to that potential for me.

Star Wars might have given him the excuse he needed to do so.

Or not; it could've easily gone either way for me.

 

Since he did get replaced, I'm glad Giacchino was chosen rather than, say, Henry Jackman.

Of course I would have preferred Williams. Or Debney. Or maybe even Silvestri.

But in my book, it could have been far, far worse.

 

We likely won't ever know what could have been though.

And we won't know what will be either.

It might actually turn out horrible for real. Or absolutely fantastic.

Most likely it'll be at least reasonable. I'll be erring on the side of optimism.

[publicist 4,643]

5 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Is it acceptable to hold a "middle ground" position or is that really more controversial than either of the extremes?

 

But you said all about personal preference - which is no middle ground.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Listened to Zero Dark Thirty, Immitation Game, and Godzilla for the first time in ages this morning.

 

 

can we have Desplat back? ?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

11 hours ago, publicist said:

 

But you said all about personal preference - which is no middle ground.

Can my personal preference not be to appreciate Giacchino but not love him?

 

My argument was never about "Giacchino is good" or "Giacchino is bad" anyway.

[publicist 4,643]

Sheesh Pieter, stop taking meta discussions aways so literally. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Dutch people just aren't as relaxed and easy going as you Germans!

[publicist 4,643]

Dutchbags.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Kraut!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

Sheesh Pieter, stop taking meta discussions aways so literally. 

To compensate, here's a smiley face:

[Will 2,215]

On 10/4/2016 at 3:55 PM, TheWhiteRider said:

Not all personal preferences are created equal.

 

You do have a point there, I'll admit. 

[Miz 139]

I'm a little concerned that Giacchino has not had long enough to write this. He was probably brought on before the news was released, but how long has he had? Also, he'll have to form relationships with a new director and team - including a new sound team, do we know?

 

I hope we get less 'Earth Days' and more 'Jupiter Ascending' and 'John Carter'.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Don't think there's any chance whatsoever that he'll score Star Wars like a nature documentary. 

[mstrox 6,647]

On that note, I hope this isn't another "The Family Stone" either!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Great score!

[leeallen01 2,134]

I hope he uses a theremin when Spock faces Vader.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I hope he writes a good score.

[KK 3,307]

I think you need more reasonable expectations Alvar.

[Miz 139]

Heh.

 

Listened to Secret Weapons Over Normandy this morning, and I got inklings that the shrill brass and tumbling melodies could really suit a good old-fashioned X-Wing battle; and that Medal Of Honor's ground-battle tempo could have a good run-in. I'd like the Rebel theme to take centre stage and even be developed forward (not truncated like so many reboot/soft-reboot/sequel scores tend to). Not that I want a recycled sound, I'm sure (given time) he could make this soar while keeping depth...but it's not a given.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think this score will be Michael Giacchino's Star Wars moment. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In what way? (if you are indeed being serious)

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I think it will definitely be a Star Wars score for a Star Wars movie. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What does that mean? Do we even know what a Star Wars score without Williams is supposed to sound like?

[leeallen01 2,134]

This whole score relies on the quality of Giacchino's basic musical instincts. JNH described the 5 weeks he had on King Kong as being unable to second guess himself, and his first instincts, thoughts and feelings were what we got. He didn't have time to sit on a cue and wonder how he can make it better, and had no chance to go back and alter something he wasn't fully happy with. And as a result, we got what I consider to be a masterpiece from him.

 

So you never know with Giacchino. Because as we all know, we are a product of our environment, and Giacchino's initial instinctual environment was spending hours listening and analysing and wearing out the Vinyl of Williams' Star Wars. Since then, everything he has been exposed to in the decades since, has shaped his musical sound. But his initial introduction and passion for film music, came from Williams and Star Wars. Personally, I think that having very limited time for Rogue One will actually be a positive thing, and probably better than if he had 6 months to write it.

[Jay 37,322]

Huh. Interesting way of looking at it. I hope you're right. 

[leeallen01 2,134]

Let's face it, it will instantly be criticised for not being Williams by everyone, including me. We all know it wont be as good as if Williams did it, so he is screwed on first impressions. But I'm sure that as the months go by, and we all hear it more and settle with it, we will start to appreciate it for what it is, and for its own merits, and less about the fact that "Williams would have done this and that better" etc. Of course he would have. But it isn't Williams, it's Giacchino. Let's just hope we get the best that he can do. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I've been hinging my hopes on the fact that he was (presumably?) always on a tight schedule with LOST and it's some of the best music he's ever written. Obviously a Star Wars movie would have different requirements but in a way, it is an interesting idea to think that this is just going to have to pour out of him instinctually with no time to fine-tune everything. Could definitely feel messy and disorganized or it could turn out feeling quite vital and emotionally present. Or all of the above, which may not be a bad thing either.

[Jay 37,322]

His girlfriend will very likely be writing additional music for this

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[KK 3,307]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

Let's face it, it will instantly be criticised for not being Williams by everyone. 

 

But this is precisely the reason that got me excited about Desplat doing this score. In fact it's the opposite that has me finding Giacchino a boring prospect, because we're likely going to get a pale imitation of Williams.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hamfisted chords, awkward themes, sketchy recording....

 

Urgh!

[KK 3,307]

I can't wait for that good ol' 4-chord piano ditty that tells the audience to feel emotion!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't...