Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[BloodBoal 7,538]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I have no issue with Gia creating new themes and doing his own thing; what irritates me greatly is the annoying "middle ground" he stays in, where he presents 2 or 3 notes of a familiar theme in the same orchestration then goes in a totally different melodic direction. It's distracting and jarring beyond belief.

 

I can agree with that. Though let's not forget that this is a situation where a composer got replaced for unclear reasons, and it probably went like this:

 

Quote

 

Desplat is working on the film. He writes a very elegant, sophisticated score very different from Williams' music.

 

Evil Producer N°1: "Non, non, non, Monsieur Desplatte. It is not very good at all. You need to write themes that sound like Mister Williams' themes, but that are not Williams' themes."

Monsieur Desplatte: "Non merci, je ne suis pas intéressé."

Evil Producer N°2: "OK. The exit door is this way."

Evil Producer N°1: "Quick! Call the next John Williams for a replacement score that sounds like Williams but that isn't like Williams!'

Evil Producer N°2: "Will do!"

 

*Phone ringing. Evil Producer N°2 is waiting for someone to pick up the call*

 

Michael Djiatchino: "Hello?"

Evil Producer N°2: "Mister Djiatchino? Hello, I'm Evil Producer N°2 working on the Star Wars story stuff."

Michael Djiatchino: "Hello. But my name isn't Djiatchino. It's Guiakino, like the gnocchi de la mama."

Evil Producer N°2: "Yes, yes... Would you be interested in working on a Star Wars movie?"

Michael Guiakino: "Hell yes!"

Evil Producer N°2: "But beware: we will need you to write themes that sound like Williams but that are..."

Michael Djiakino: "I don't care, I'm in!"

Evil Producer N°2: "All right. See you tomorrow!"

 

*Hangs up the phone*

 

Evil Producer N°2: "He fell for it! He didn't even ask how much time he will have to do the score! He'll do anything to work on the film!"

Evil Producer N°5: "Good... Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen..."

Evil Producer N°7.2: "Execute Temp Track 66"

 

 

[Bespin 8,481]

@BloodBoal In Desplat, the ending T is muet. It's Dessplah.

 

Maybe he quit because he was tired of explaining how to pronounce his name!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Heard the score.

 

The themes are weak as crap, especially for Giacchino. Most of them anyway. But I would easily prefer "Imperial Suite" over "March Of The Resistance" or the material done by Williams for the bad guys in TFA, which feel really like lukewarm copies of the stuff when it was written first by him, which was many many many years ago.

Not saying Imperial Suite is a legend in the making, but I guarantee it would be universally loved if it was done by Williams. I also prefer some of Giacchino's underscore over TFA, something that's a rarity because Giacchino's underscore is usually fucking awfully pedestrian.

 

In short, TFA is still the better score than RO, but RO makes up for it with Giacchino's clear love and enthusiasm for Star Wars, something that, in my ears, TFA lacks. Aside from Rey's theme, there is little in there that is truly new or greatly inspired.

[Bilbo 3,709]

53 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

Heard the score.

 

The themes are weak as crap, especially for Giacchino. Most of them anyway. But I would easily prefer "Imperial Suite" over "March Of The Resistance" or the material done by Williams for the bad guys in TFA, which feel really like lukewarm copies of the stuff when it was written first by him, which was many many many years ago.

Not saying Imperial Suite is a legend in the making, but I guarantee it would be universally loved if it was done by Williams. I also prefer some of Giacchino's underscore over TFA, something that's a rarity because Giacchino's underscore is usually fucking awfully pedestrian.

 

In short, TFA is still the better score than RO, but RO makes up for it with Giacchino's clear love and enthusiasm for Star Wars, something that, in my ears, TFA lacks. Aside from Rey's theme, there is little in there that is truly new or greatly inspired.

 

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that very little of TFA is new or inspired. I have much great hopes for VIII.

[karelm 2,913]

MG had an impossible task and I thought the music was serviceable but not particularly memorable.  I do have problems with MG's spotting.  One thing I didn't like is the music came in before Jyn's rescue telegraphing what was about to happen.  Sometimes the music rhythm didn't quite match the seen or dramatic rhythm the way JW would nail.  I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.  I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa and there it wasn't used at all.  I would have liked to have more extended harmonies but that would probably come across as mimicking JW.  It still would have been nice to have a few big SW chords.  In short, I wasn't disappointed or surprised by the gap between MG and JW in all aspects of music and story.

[Jay 37,357]

10 minutes ago, karelm said:

 I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.  I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa. 

 

I agree with this! 

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

I've seen the FYC site, but have the tracks, um, popped up anywhere?

 

Surprised how much I'm digging this.

[Jay 37,357]

Just now, Nick1066 said:

I've seen the FYC site, but have the tracks, um, popped up anywhere?

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26916-michael-giacchinos-rogue-one-disney-fyc-site-contains-26-12-minutes-of-additional-music/

[artguy360 1,843]

After having seen the film, listened to the FYC material, and relistened to the OST several times, I find nothing I want to add to my Star Wars playlist or intentionally revisit again. 

 

The score is serviceable in the film with some stumbles, but outside of the film it's just not enough to draw me back. 

[mrbellamy 6,286]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

I didn't understand the use of some themes like the force theme where the characters are mobilizing.  I get that it is one of the great SW themes but it had no reason to be there.

 

Seem to remember these all came in when a character would mention the Force, even just in passing. I didn't really mind them but they were a little awkwardly slipped in there.

[karelm 2,913]

16 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Seem to remember these all came in when a character would mention the Force, even just in passing. I didn't really mind them but they were a little awkwardly slipped in there.

 

But it was like a big bold statement when maybe the characters were saying it in passing - it just really didn't feel right.  It reminded me of the big drop ins of the Jurassic Park theme in Jurassic World.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Absolutely a terrible score. It's beyond bad. As I told Stefan General Zod's comments to Superman about the Fortress of Solitude reflect how I feel about this total failure.

[crocodile 8,012]

13 minutes ago, karelm said:

 

But it was like a big bold statement when maybe the characters were saying it in passing - it just really didn't feel right.  It reminded me of the big drop ins of the Jurassic Park theme in Jurassic World.

Droppings, you meant?

 

Karol

[leeallen01 2,136]

I've noticed a repeating phrase that occurs in a few tracks:

 

'Jedha Arrival' at 1:03

'Cargo Shuttle SW-0608' at 3:04, which is more developed.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

BTW I applaud Stefan for his Michael Giacchino is a fucking terrible composer thread. Brilliant too bad it was locked. Truth is often supressed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Apparently it's no longer allowed to not be optimistic on this forum. I'm even getting warnings via PM about it now.

 

Sad...

[leeallen01 2,136]

There's a difference between critiquing something negatively, and just being a dick.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

No there isn't

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Trashing Giacchino is necessary. JFC you people that think he is a great composer  sully the good name that is John Williams. If Desplat had scored this film there would be a completely different type of discussion. Less inflammatory. Less passionate because people know AD is competent if not necessarily inspiring while MG gets one group of zealots going and another group soul crushed.

[leeallen01 2,136]

It's tiring to scroll through the incessant complaining on these threads. If I don't like something, I sometimes express it on here, but never personally insult a composer over it. That's just sad. There is an unwritten agreement that if you hate something, then you leave the people who do like it, to discuss it amongst themselves, and not jump in every 5 minutes to tell everyone that what they're talking about it shite because it's terrible.

 

I don't particularly like Zimmer, and think he's pretty bad 70% of the time, but instead of going on Zimmer threads to insult him and his work, I instead focus my time on threads that concern subjects I do like. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Okay Lee allen. MG did a bad job of Rogue One. It underwhelmed. It is a disappointment.  I had hoped he might do well but given his failure in his Star Trek Films my hope was slim. I do not blame him for the structure of the score. That is the directors choice. I like the film. It could have been elevated by a competent or better score.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Okay, I don't agree, but that's fine.

 

My point is that as a fan of Giacchino and his work on Rogue One, I am tired of discussing how much some of you don't like Giacchino's work for the 50th time this week, instead of discussing aspects of the score, which I'd like to do, that's all.

[Bilbo 3,709]

In film he nails the 3rd act I think. It's not as good (aside from YFWHBP and Hope) on record. 

 

It isn't a terrible score. It's serviceable. It could have been a lot worse and I will take Gia over whatever it is they do with the MCU any day of the week.

 

The imperial material is growing on me but it's still obviously "not the imperial march". 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It's not bad.  It's not great.  It's not good.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

8 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Okay, I don't agree, but that's fine.

 

My point is that as a fan of Giacchino and his work on Rogue One, I am tired of discussing how much some of you don't like Giacchino's work for the 50th time this week, instead of discussing aspects of the score, which I'd like to do, that's all.

 

You Gia fans need to grow a thicker skin. In the case of Rogue One I mentioned the score in my original review and was reasonably mild about it. (Lets face it, Gia is no JW and he didn't have a long time)

 

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

It's not a thicker skin we need. I can take a few knocks from people who don't like something I like, but when it's the same people relentlessly dedicating their lives to commenting unnecessary hatred all over every Giacchino thread, it's just mentally draining to find the actual discussions and not just another insult.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the case of Rogue One even people who didnt think much of the score seem to be pretty mild about it. I really think you are imagining things.

 

Does this relentless Gia bashing actually exist? Those who don't consider themselves fans usually give pretty solid arguments as to why they don''t like his music, or a particular score.

Perhaps it's like John Barry or Goldsmith on FSM. Any criticism on either is punishable by death.

[KK 3,307]

I agree with Steef in that I don't think the score's detractors have been unreasonably harsh here. Joe's reaction has really been the only exception, but hey it's Joe, so he gets a pass.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Joe's role on this forum has always been to speak his mind plainly. And annoy the incumbent Moderator.

[Jay 37,357]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

It's tiring to scroll through the incessant complaining on these threads. If I don't like something, I sometimes express it on here, but never personally insult a composer over it. That's just sad. There is an unwritten agreement that if you hate something, then you leave the people who do like it, to discuss it amongst themselves, and not jump in every 5 minutes to tell everyone that what they're talking about it shite because it's terrible.

 

I agree

 

 

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

I don't particularly like Zimmer, and think he's pretty bad 70% of the time, but instead of going on Zimmer threads to insult him and his work, I instead focus my time on threads that concern subjects I do like. 

 

Thank you

[Will 2,215]

4 hours ago, karelm said:

I think it didn't really make sense to use the Force Theme at all in the film except perhaps subtly when Obi Wan is mentioned by Bail Organa and there it wasn't used at all.

 

I didn't remember it either from the film but it turns out it was subtly used there:

 

 

Right at 0:13. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

On 15. Dezember 2016 at 4:22 PM, Jay said:

 

20 The Imperial Suite 2:30

 

Is this a joke?  This is basically a pastiche of The Imperial March... like what someone would write if they were working on a project and asked to emulate the Imperial March because they weren't allowed to directly quote it.  This is a seriously weak theme, it sounds like a parody and not a true villain theme in a serious movie.  You have to wonder: Why not simply use the Imperial March in the scenes that use this theme?  Why is a third Imperial theme even necessary?  Extremely disappointed by this.

 

 

I guess this is the mind set with which PJ approached the Hobbit scores.

"Why put in a new theme for Bilbo if we can just have the iconic Shire theme?"

 

You seriously think the theme is worse than the absolutely generic March in TFA?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 minute ago, gkgyver said:

You seriously think the theme is worse than the absolutely generic March in TFA?

March of the Resistance is great.  Better than anything Giacchino could ever write!  

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm listening.

 

I think Desplat deserved to stay even to write a non Starwarsy score. And Giacchino deserved more time.

 

As usual, Gia has hints of coolness here and there but doesn't develop on that. He need's to ditch his way of writing themes. Drop the endless repetition of the hook with a small change and go straight to something completely different.

[Crimson Nagus 43]

13 hours ago, lairdo said:

So, I too wish they had put in the whole end credit sequence as mixed on the OST. Guess I will just grab it from the Blu-ray release when that comes out. I will say the transition from the last suite back to ANH was pretty rough though in terms of the edit/mix.

 

 

Do you think it is possible to recreate the edits with what we have from ANH?  I don't remember were the crossfades happen from ANH material and then back again.  Wasn't paying that much attention because the wife started talking to me. 

 

I'd love to give it a try even though I suck at editing music. 

[Jay 37,357]

29 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

I guess this is the mind set with which PJ approached the Hobbit scores.

"Why put in a new theme for Bilbo if we can just have the iconic Shire theme?"

 

You seriously think the theme is worse than the absolutely generic March in TFA?

 

I do not find The March of the Resistance to be generic at all, so no.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

March Of The Resistance is ace!

[artguy360 1,843]

31 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

I guess this is the mind set with which PJ approached the Hobbit scores.

"Why put in a new theme for Bilbo if we can just have the iconic Shire theme?"

 

You seriously think the theme is worse than the absolutely generic March in TFA?

Its hard for me to understand why one would think an Imperial March parody is better than March of the Resistance which has its own clear melodic identity and also fits comfortably in the Star Wars musical canon.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

I agree with this! 

 

But even Williams has always used the Force Theme quite liberally. As Ben's theme, as a theme for the Force, the rebels, for Luke etc etc.

 

Nothing about Gia's use of the theme in the film felt particularly out of place to me. It's certainly no different than Williams' application of it.

 

I was actually more fine with Gia using the established themes than doing the so-called "knock off" versions of them. Like the Imperial March that isnt, or the SW theme that isn't stated.

[Will 2,215]

@karelm and @Jay,

 

There's nothing wrong story-wise with Giacchino's JW theme usage IMO. 

 

JW, as Stefan says, has never been too careful about how he uses his themes. In the prequels, we got the Force theme in action scenes where the Force was not really clearly involved. Same thing happened in Throne Room in ANH, and "Farewell and the Trip" from TFA. And Han's death (the big alternate). Etc.

 

And it's not like JW thought it wasn't the Force theme anymore -- I believe he still calls it that in interviews! And certain TFA uses were clearly connected to the Force. 

 

I think the places Giacchino used the themes were completely respectful to JW, and in fact, I'm sure if JW himself was scoring the film he would have sprinkled some themes in various "random" scenes as well! (particularly the Force theme)

 

[Jay 37,357]

You don't think the Force theme being in the Throne Room cue makes sense?

[Will 2,215]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

You don't think the Force theme being in the Throne Room cue makes sense?

 

Well, maybe... It's a stretch, though, particularly given that it JW thought of it as Ben's theme at the time, I believe. 

 

There's also statements in the X-wing battle ... it's possible these are JW making connections to the omnipresent role of the Force and Ben's spirit, I suppose. 

 

But it's also possible that he just liked using the theme for pure musicality and gravity (and this is supported, I think, by the way the theme would be used in the prequels and TFA). 

 

Oh, and there's also Leia's theme when Obi-Wan dies as an example of JW using a theme he knows he wrote for one character in a somewhat unrelated way. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Will, in the original 1977 liner notes of Star Wars, written by JW himself, he consistenty refers to it as Ben's Theme. It really only became The Force Theme later on. 

 

Try to seek those liners out if you can. They may not be as in depth as those of modern rereleases. But as they were written by the composer himself they are absolutely vital for a Williams fan.

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

You don't think the Force theme being in the Throne Room cue makes sense?

 

As Ben's Theme, no. As The Force Theme....sure.

[crocodile 8,012]

Force theme is often used slightly out of context anyway. It's more than just about the Force or Obi-Wan Kenobi specifically It's is a mythical binding glue that holds this universe together so either Giacchino or Williams (or anybody else) using it this way doesn't bother me.

 

Karol

[Lockdown 238]

 

[Jay 37,357]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Will, in the original 1977 liner notes of Star Wars, written by JW himself, he consistenty refers to it as Ben's Theme. It really only became The Force Theme later on. 

 

I think that even within the film itself though, he uses it for both, despite what he says in the notes

 

Quote

 

Try to seek those liners out if you can. They may not be as in depth as those of modern rereleases. But as they were written by the composer himself they are absolutely vital for a Williams fan.

 

Here you go @Will!

 

http://vinylalbumcovers.com/star-wars-original-motion-picture-soundtrack/

 

 

Quote

As Ben's Theme, no. As The Force Theme....sure.

 

Yea, its celebrating the triumph of the good side of The Force over the dark side

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,357]

It's what binds everything together!

[crocodile 8,012]

Speaking of out of context usages of Force theme, during the battle of Hoth it was used to a great effect.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That was kinda my point Jason. He originally concieved it as Ben's Theme, but even in SW expanded it's use beyond just that character. (Possibly on Lucas' insistence, who requested the rescore of Binary sunset)

 

So again. I can't fault Giacchino for using it in the same way Williams has.

 

However, the first instance we heard it last year in TFA, i got goosebumps. Even though it was just a fairly regular horn rendition of it. 

 

I didnt feel that with Rogue One at all.

 

Just now, crocodile said:

Speaking of out of context usages of Force theme, during the battle of Hoth it was used to a great effect.

 

Karol

 

That's a truly fantastic rendition!