Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Will said:

 

Heard most notably in "A Long Ride Ahead," at the end.

 

I actually rather like that Mustafar fanfare. It's grown on me. I like the rhythms. It has a sort of lovely almost "swaying" quality.

agreed, my only criticism of that cue comes from the muddy brass which is strangely absent from most of the score.

[curlytoot 97]

Here is my review:

 

https://cinemusicreviews.wordpress.com/2016/12/29/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story/

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I think a lot of people think The Imperial Suite is one theme. Iinfact both professional reviews at MovieMusik and Movie-Wave made the same mistake. Then why would it be called Suite? It is TWO different themes played one after the other. Gia himself confirms it.

 

 

 

 

I think it is extremely clear if you have seen the film. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

 

9 hours ago, gkgyver said:

Not having watched the film, what track is this supposed "jumled mess" fanfare on?

I think it is the beginning of Krennic's aspirations.

 

At leat, that is the one i was discussing about.

[Miz 139]

For my cotton ears, can anyone spell out clearly and specifically the Hoth reference in AT-ACT assault? I don't hear it. When in that track, and from when (and what instrument) in the Hoth track?

 

Also, why AT-ACT and not AT-AT? The vehicles looked the same, just with unfolding cargo doors.

[Giftheck 916]

2 minutes ago, Miz said:

Also, why AT-ACT and not AT-AT? The vehicles looked the same, just with unfolding cargo doors.

 

They have different heads, are not as heavily armed or armoured, walk faster and are 40% bigger than AT-ATs.

[Miz 139]

Do they have a different theme?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

4 minutes ago, Miz said:

For my cotton ears, can anyone spell out clearly and specifically the Hoth reference in AT-ACT assault? I don't hear it. When in that track, and from when (and what instrument) in the Hoth track?

 

00:32 - 00:36

 

 

 

08:37 - 08:40 for example (that motif appears a few times throughout the sequence)

 

 

[Jay 37,323]

4 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think a lot of people think The Imperial Suite is one theme. Iinfact both professional reviews at MovieMusik and Movie-Wave made the same mistake. Then why would it be called Suite? It is TWO different themes played one after the other. Gia himself confirms it.

 

Dude!

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26662-michael-giacchinos-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-2016/&do=findComment&comment=1304247

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

4 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think a lot of people think The Imperial Suite is one theme. Iinfact both professional reviews at MovieMusik and Movie-Wave made the same mistake. Then why would it be called Suite? It is TWO different themes played one after the other. Gia himself confirms it.

 

 

 

 

I think it is extremely clear if you have seen the film. 

 

Professional reviewers are idiots.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

At least get get paid for their bullshit.

 

[Jay 37,323]

Funny alternate cover I saw posted in the FSM thread

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

6 hours ago, Gistech said:

 

They have different heads, are not as heavily armed or armoured, walk faster and are 40% bigger than AT-ATs.

 

They should have been called: AT-CT (All Terrain Cargo Transpot) because:

 

a) this way you can explain why they can be destroyed by a fighter's blasters (no "Armored")

b) they maintain the 4 letters. (AT-TE, UT-AT, AT-AT, AT-ST, AT-PT...)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its a nightmare!

[King Mark 3,626]

9 hours ago, Gistech said:

 

They have different heads, are not as heavily armed or armoured, walk faster and are 40% bigger than AT-ATs.

 

if they aren't battle worthy, why use them in the fight?

[Demodex 557]

Does anyone have a list of where in the movie the tracks from the soundtrack and FYC appear?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

See here:

 

[Jay 37,323]

That is not what he asked.

[Giftheck 916]

18 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

 

They should have been called: AT-CT (All Terrain Cargo Transpot) because:

 

a) this way you can explain why they can be destroyed by a fighter's blasters (no "Armored")

b) they maintain the 4 letters. (AT-TE, UT-AT, AT-AT, AT-ST, AT-PT...)

 

I agree: AT-CT would have been less of a mouthful, but all of those walkers you listed have very different designs to each other whereas the AT-ACT is mostly the same design as the AT-AT.

 

AT-ATs aren't THAT great either: Vader could cripple one by severing a foot with his lightsaber (seen in the Luke Skywalker comic) and we only have the testimony of Luke piloting a T-47 Airspeeder than the armour on an AT-AT is too strong for blasters (an X-Wing's cannons are surely stronger).

 

Anyway, enough of the talk about these things, this is a music thread.

 

I've seen the film a second time and I think the music has grown on me quite a bit, though there were a few odd moments that haven't changed (primarily the title card music, the Force Theme flub when they leave Yavin to go to Jedha, and the odd transition from Hope to the end credits). I quite like the Hope theme, an for the most part, I'd say that the majority of themes are incorporated appropriately enough. It was nice to hear a few callbacks to A New Hope that John Williams hasn't used in his post ANH scores.

[mstrox 6,647]

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

Does anyone have a list of where in the movie the tracks from the soundtrack and FYC appear?

 

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

That is not what he asked.

 

Here ya go - based on the track titles and my recent second watch of the movie. Spoilery

 

Spoiler

01 OST 01 He's Here For Us (3:20)  - Krennic's arrival and the Ersos preparing
02 OST 02 A Long Ride Ahead (3:56) - Baby Jyn scrambling to her bunker through the opening logo
03 OST 03 Wobani Imperial Labor Camp (0:54) - Jyn locked up
04 OST 04 Trust Goes Both Ways (2:45) - Jyn/Cassian/K2SO talking in the U-Wing, taking off for Jedha
05 OST 05 When Has Become Now (1:59) - Krennic's meeting with Tarkin in the Star Destroyer above the Death Star
06 OST 06 Jedha Arrival (2:48) - Jyn's flashback/dream, The U-wing lands on Jedha and the heroes discuss, leave for the city
07 FYC 05 Hearts Of Kyber (0:57) - Chirrut meets Jyn from across the street, asks her about Kyber crystals
08 OST 07 Jedha City Ambush (2:19) - the tank skirmish
09 FYC 07 Today of All Days (3:34) - The crew is taken to Saw's hideout, and Saw meets up with Jyn
10 OST 08 Star-Dust (3:47) - Jyn watches the hologram and the Death Star fires
11 FYC 09 An Imperial Test Of Power (2:49) - The crew escapes Jedha on the U-Wing
12 FYC 10 Approach To Eadu (1:19) - The low-flying descent on the science lab on Eadu
13 FYC 11 No Trust Among Rebels (2:01) - Cassian takes off, Chirrut asks if he looks like a killer, the rest of the rebels take off
14 FYC 12 Jyns's Path Is Clear (2:31)  - Jyn branches off from the crew, climbs up the tower (while the meeting between Krennic and Galen is going on)
15 OST 09 Confrontation on Eadu (8:05) - the X-wings attack, the heroes escape
16 OST 10 Krennic's Aspirations (4:16) - arrival on Mustafar and Krennic's meeting with Vader
17 OST 11 Rebellions Are Built on Hope (2:56) - the meeting at Yavin 4
18 OST 12 Rogue One (2:04) - the shuttle taking off from Yavin 4
19 OST 13 Cargo Shuttle SW-0608 (3:59) - Jyn's speech and the landing on Scarif
20 FYC 18 Good Luck Little Sister (2:48)  - the crew splits up and leaves the shuttle (line is Baze's goodbye to Jyn)
21 FYC 19 Are We Blind? (1:33) - Explosions begin and Krennic tells the Imperials to send out their troops
22  OST 14 Scrambling the Rebel Fleet (1:33) - Word of rebels on Scarif leaks to Yavin 4 and the fleet takes off
23 OST 15 AT-ACT Assault (2:55) - the AT-ACTs take the ground troops by surprise, and the ensuing escape
24 FYC 23 Project Stardust (3:46) - Jyn and Cassian locate the data tapes
25 FYC 24 Entering The Imperial Archives (1:24) - Jyn and Cassian begin to climb
26 FYC 25 Get That Beach Under Control (1:13) - More battle music - not 100% sure where this was specifically.
27 OST 16 The Master Switch (4:02) - Chirrut throws the switch and Baze follows
28 FYC 27 We Have To Press The Attack (2:39) - Admiral Raddus decides to continue fighting despite losing ships
29 OST 17 Your Father Would Be Proud (4:51) - from the successful transmission of the tapes, through the wave overtaking Jyn/Cassian, and ending around when the data is uploaded to a data card
30 OST 18 Hope (1:37) - Darth Vader's lightsaber ignites, through to the end credits
31 OST 19 Jyn Erso & Hope Suite (5:51)
32 OST 20 The Imperial Suite (2:29)
33 OST 21 Guardians of the Whills Suite (2:52)

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Damn you, Mike. I was halfway through the tracklist doing that, and then your post showed up. Damn you!

[mstrox 6,647]

I'm the woist

[Demodex 557]

Thank you!!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I am the walrus!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

You're a sad puppy.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

Shut the fuck up Stefan.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Fucking hell! Make it stop...

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

17 hours ago, king mark said:

 

if they aren't battle worthy, why use them in the fight?

Heh, tell that to the Rebel Alliance, which keeps sending the "Medium transports" into battle* yet they dont have any firepower in most games..and may have only one laser battery or two...

 

(ROTJ- and i think there were some in Rogue one?)

[Giftheck 916]

17 hours ago, king mark said:

 

if they aren't battle worthy, why use them in the fight?

 

I never said they aren't battle worthy. They're just designed for cargo transport instead of troop transports and assaults like their smaller counterparts. They're more than capable of defending themselves against ground attacks (clearly they did so in the film) with the cannons mounted to the sides of their heads, their armoured enough to stop most ground-based weapons (as evidenced in the film itself, the AT-ACT can take rocket fire without so much as a scratch). The AT-AT has the same weaknesses: a lucky shot from an X-Wing straight to the leg joints will cripple an AT-AT the same as an AT-ACT, and the neck remains a weak point on both as well.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Meh new canon bullshit. In the EU you only could defeat them with harpoons and tow cables! Or that's what Rogue Squadron 3d said.

[Wojo 2,453]

I could never get past that level. I was rage quitting before it became a term. 

[Miz 139]

It was even more ropey in Shadows of the Empire. Arf.

 

As for this score: many thanks to the Star Wars Oxygen team for show 38. The sound editing in the beginning was promising but the speaking and banter pretty cack-handed. However, there is more surprising nuance in this score: Guardians of the Whills theme appears to be modelled on a one-off motif from Tales of a Jedi Knight - Learn About The Force, ANH ("Come with me to Alderaan"), with the shared significance being that Obi-Wan was a Jedi-in-hiding, a carrier of old sacred knowledge. The other decent reference mentioned is the beginning of Stardust being modelled, in instrumentation and tone, on Hologram, ANH, because in both a messenger carries knowledge of the Death Star to the heroes.

 

All in all I'm impressed by Giacchino's use of original trilogy motifs and themes on every scale and with varying prominence, throughout the score. The lack of complexity in some of the writing (particularly action), the lack of ambition in the themes, and, arguably, a certain incoherence to the whole, all seem to be products of the tight schedule. The faith to the Star Wars universe is actually quite incredible, and naysayers need to dig into this score to find that faithfulness and respect. Otherwise, their lack of faith is disturbing. I don't think Desplat would have been able to draw half as well on Williams' canon, or manipulate it with such creativity.

 

I just wish the momentum of AT-ACT Attack's scintillating Rebel fanfare, instead of reverting to chaos, kept firing on all cylinders...

 

[BTR1701 59]

On 12/11/2016 at 0:49 PM, BloodBoal said:

 

Can't read music, so I don't know if the pic you posted above fits it, but you're not referring to the Rebel Fanfare, are you?

 

Yes, it's become the Rebel Fanfare, but it seems obvious that Williams originally intended it to be an Imperial theme in the first film.

 

It's first appearance in the score isn't when the Tantive IV races across the screen, but rather when the Star Destroyer following it appears. Likewise, during the subsequent gun battle, it heralds the entrance of the stormtroopers onto the Rebel ship.

 

When the Falcon gets caught in the Death Star's tractor beam, Williams has that fanfare playing triumphantly as they are drawn into the hangar bay, and even at the very end, after Luke destroys the Death Star and we see the remaining Rebel ships heading back to base, the film cuts to Vader stabilizing his TIE fighter and flying off into space accompanied by a light, dancing version of that fanfare in the flutes.

 

It seems clear to me that when Williams wrote the score to ANH, that fanfare was an Imperial motif and it's strange how in later films it did a 180 and became the herald of the Rebellion.

[aviazn 273]

Hey, I liked this score! (Ha, I know I'm late, but the movie finally came out here in Korea on Wednesday and have just got a chance to sit through the score and FYC material.)

 

Count me in the "Enjoyable despite the lack of quality" camp. Not gonna repeat everything everyone's said, but in addition to the small doses of Medal of Honor that people have noted, I also liked the heavy doses of Secret Weapons Over Normandy—especially in the rhythmic action material in places like the end of Jedha City Ambush or throughout AT-ACT Assault.

 

Yeah, it exposes his shortcomings and tics, like ending phrases on triplets and awkward syncopations. The title card is painful, though not as embarassing as the sad little ending to the Imperial Suite that tries to emulate the Imperial March finale. Rogue One sounds like Gia tried really hard to write a WWII war fugue, couldn't figure out how to modulate, and gave up. Too bad—would have been extremely fitting, even more so than March of the Resistance in TFA! 

 

But overall, I thought he delivered on the big moments. There were a lot of moments that just seemed to miss the mark entirely, but no more so than an episode of Lost. (Yeah, that's kind of a lot, but given the timeline, those were my expectations going in.)

 

tl;dr: There's nothing in here I'd put up against Williams, but I liked it more than I thought I would.

[artguy360 1,843]

2 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Yes, it's become the Rebel Fanfare, but it seems obvious that Williams originally intended it to be an Imperial theme in the first film.

 

It's first appearance in the score isn't when the Tantive IV races across the screen, but rather when the Star Destroyer following it appears. Likewise, during the subsequent gun battle, it heralds the entrance of the stormtroopers onto the Rebel ship.

 

When the Falcon gets caught in the Death Star's tractor beam, Williams has that fanfare playing triumphantly as they are drawn into the hangar bay, and even at the very end, after Luke destroys the Death Star and we see the remaining Rebel ships heading back to base, the film cuts to Vader stabilizing his TIE fighter and flying off into space accompanied by a light, dancing version of that fanfare in the flutes.

 

It seems clear to me that when Williams wrote the score to ANH, that fanfare was an Imperial motif and it's strange how in later films it did a 180 and became the herald of the Rebellion.

Are you sure about that? There was already a short motif for the Empire in ANH and a storm trooper motif iirc. I really don't think the Rebel Fanfare was ever an Imperial theme. The timing of it is probably just to musically punctuate certain moments that you are misinterpreting. 

[steb74 53]

The Rebel Fanfare was never an Imperial theme and Williams even referred to it as the 'Rebel Spaceship Fanfare' in the original SW LP liner notes.

[Jay 37,323]

4 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Yes, it's become the Rebel Fanfare, but it seems obvious that Williams originally intended it to be an Imperial theme in the first film.

 

It's first appearance in the score isn't when the Tantive IV races across the screen, but rather when the Star Destroyer following it appears. Likewise, during the subsequent gun battle, it heralds the entrance of the stormtroopers onto the Rebel ship.

 

When the Falcon gets caught in the Death Star's tractor beam, Williams has that fanfare playing triumphantly as they are drawn into the hangar bay, and even at the very end, after Luke destroys the Death Star and we see the remaining Rebel ships heading back to base, the film cuts to Vader stabilizing his TIE fighter and flying off into space accompanied by a light, dancing version of that fanfare in the flutes.

 

It seems clear to me that when Williams wrote the score to ANH, that fanfare was an Imperial motif and it's strange how in later films it did a 180 and became the herald of the Rebellion.

 

Woah. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That contradicts Williams' own description of it though in his 1977 liner notes for the Star Wars LP.

 

Therefore I don't believe it.

[Jay 37,323]

Cremeritis!

 

4 hours ago, steb74 said:

The Rebel Fanfare was never an Imperial theme and Williams even referred to it as the 'Rebel Spaceship Fanfare' in the original SW LP liner notes.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, it was 5:50 AM when i typed that. I was barely alive.

[Lockdown 238]

Was Giacchino another Storm Trooper in Rogue One?

 

"Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (additional voices) "

[DominicCobb 194]

19 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Yes, it's become the Rebel Fanfare, but it seems obvious that Williams originally intended it to be an Imperial theme in the first film.

 

It's first appearance in the score isn't when the Tantive IV races across the screen, but rather when the Star Destroyer following it appears. Likewise, during the subsequent gun battle, it heralds the entrance of the stormtroopers onto the Rebel ship.

 

When the Falcon gets caught in the Death Star's tractor beam, Williams has that fanfare playing triumphantly as they are drawn into the hangar bay, and even at the very end, after Luke destroys the Death Star and we see the remaining Rebel ships heading back to base, the film cuts to Vader stabilizing his TIE fighter and flying off into space accompanied by a light, dancing version of that fanfare in the flutes.

 

It seems clear to me that when Williams wrote the score to ANH, that fanfare was an Imperial motif and it's strange how in later films it did a 180 and became the herald of the Rebellion.

 

There are plenty of instances in the original where this is simply not the case. I think this misunderstanding comes from the original radio drama, where the Rebel fanfare was erroneously used for the Imperials.

[BTR1701 59]

17 hours ago, Stefancos said:

That contradicts Williams' own description of it though in his 1977 liner notes for the Star Wars LP.

 

Therefore I don't believe it.

 

Well, Williams sure did a strange job of using a supposedly Rebel motif to emphasize the Imperial presence on screen. All throughout the film, it's used to accentuate the Empire, not the Rebels. Why is it playing triumphantly as the Falcon is captured by the Death Star? Who's winning there? Not the Falcon-- which isn't even a Rebel ship at that point, nor are its occupants part of the Rebellion. Even during the TIE fighter attack after the Falcon escapes the Death Star, the fanfare plays every time we see the TIEs strafing the Falcon, not when the Falcon fires back and destroys them. And why would Williams use a Rebel motif over a scene of Vader heading off into space in his TIE at the end?

 

I'm not denying what Williams said in the liner notes. I'm just saying it doesn't track with how the theme was actually used in the film.

2 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

 

There are plenty of instances in the original where this is simply not the case. I think this misunderstanding comes from the original radio drama, where the Rebel fanfare was erroneously used for the Imperials.

 

No, it comes from my observation of the actual film and the music's placement in it.

[aviazn 273]

49 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

Well, Williams sure did a strange job

 

Yup, he did a lot of strange things in ANH. I'd say scoring Ben's death with Leia's theme is weirder than any of the things you mention.

49 minutes ago, BTR1701 said:

Why is it playing triumphantly as the Falcon is captured by the Death Star?

Probably a combination of 1) it underscores the precariousness of the fate of the Rebels and 2) because it sounds better than the Imperial theme (which was also basically Williams' justification for using Leia's theme over Ben's death).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I find his lack of faith in Williams disturbing!

[BTR1701 59]

Just now, Stefancos said:

I find his lack of faith in Williams disturbing!

 

Hey, everyone has brain farts now and then. And at the time, no one expected the movie to be a hit or to spawn six sequels, so continuity wasn't a concern.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm not talking about the sequels. Williams explained what the theme represents. You are to respect that!

[steb74 53]

It just sounds like a total misunderstanding of the music. Even without the liner notes it's perfectly clear what the music represents, it's not a question of who or what is on screen but a question of context within the story, plus it's weird to have a major key triadic fanfare represent the bad guys.

The themes and motifs are not literal characterisations, they're story telling devices to help move the narrative forward. Taking everything at face value is a recipe for misinterpretation within SW, from Empire onward that changes a little.

 

[Datameister 2,037]

To me, the so-called Rebel fanfare has no strong leitmotivic meaning. It's used where it sounds good. That simple. It can variously signal Rebel victory, the Millennium Falcon, or even just the awe-inspiring madness of war. It fills a niche that no other theme does.