The Music Of The Hobbit Films - Doug Adams' Book confirmed by Howard Shore

[Arpy 4,145]

With the Music of the Lord of the Rings, I usually like to listen to the CR's in conjunction with Doug's analysis, picking out themes at specific moments - something that it seems will be difficult to do without having to watch the scenes again to follow what he's saying. 

That being said, the fact that they're producing this book gives me hope that the CR's might not be lost after all.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Doug is just trying to let us down gently 😢

[gkgyver 1,645]

Of course the LotR mockups were interesting.

But when they take away disc space for actual music, they can stay in the land of Synthasia for all I care.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Frankly, apart from the Moria one and to some extent the Gondor theme one, which were actually different from what ended up in the film (especially the former), none of the mockups were interesting. Most of them sounded like the final thing anyway, only performed on synths, so I don't see much of an interest in that.

[Faleel 5,326]

I like the Shire mockup.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

That's great.

 

Fun fact: did you know you can listen to a better-sounding version of that music on the track Bag-End of the FOTR CR?

[bollemanneke 3,334]

The Rohan fanfare mock-up is also great! Three minutes of theme repetition! No development whatsoever! How awesome is that?

[Bilbo 3,709]

I do think it should have been two CDs. 1 CD of rarities of actual music and a second cd of mock ups, demos, and those interviews. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Well, that was the plan at some point, wasn't it? First, it was supposed to be a CD + a DVD, then 2 CDs, and finally 1 CD, if I remember correctly (or something like that).

[Bilbo 3,709]

That sounds about right. 

 

I'd have gladly paid extra for more music!

 

an enhanced ebook with embedded audio could be the chance to do something like that. Actually, that seems like a natural home for the mock ups. 

[Faleel 5,326]

12 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

That's great.

 

Fun fact: did you know you can listen to a better-sounding version of that music on the track Bag-End of the FOTR CR?

But it's not the same at all.

9 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

That sounds about right. 

 

I'd have gladly paid extra for more music!

 

an enhanced ebook with embedded audio could be the chance to do something like that. Actually, that seems like a natural home for the mock ups. 

Yeah something like the Liner notes for the SE albums, where in the theme list you highlight/click a theme and it plays one of the mockups from the suite we heard parts of in the DOS EE Documentary.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,326]

Well anything can be ripped somehow.

[Wojo 2,453]

Even a phone book. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm getting the feeling that the book will discuss the music as present on the Special Edition Albums, while pretending they are almost entirely complete.

[Doug Adams 494]

2 hours ago, gkgyver said:

I'm getting the feeling that the book will discuss the music as present on the Special Edition Albums, while pretending they are almost entirely complete.

No:

 

"And yes, the book follows the complete Extended Scores ... and in the order and structure of the original fully orchestrated compositions (meaning the first fully realized draft before filmmaker conformations)."

[Incanus 5,713]

2 hours ago, Doug Adams said:

No:

 

"And yes, the book follows the complete Extended Scores ... and in the order and structure of the original fully orchestrated compositions (meaning the first fully realized draft before filmmaker conformations)."

Wonderful news/confirmation!  

[BloodBoal 7,538]

2 hours ago, Doug Adams said:

No:

 

"And yes, the book follows the complete Extended Scores ... and in the order and structure of the original fully orchestrated compositions (meaning the first fully realized draft before filmmaker conformations)."

 

The person who said that didn't mention any source, so I wouldn't trust him, Doug. We should wait for an official confirmation before getting our hopes up.

[Incanus 5,713]

Just now, BloodBoal said:

 

The person who said that didn't mention any source, so I wouldn't trust him, Doug. We should wait for an official confirmation before getting our hopes up.

Press release or it didn't happen!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Annnouncement on Fox News or it didn't happen!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Fake News!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

He's a liar and a thief!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Incanus 5,713]

1 hour ago, SafeUnderHill said:

On the augmented second:

 

Reading the Music of LOTR again thought it was pretty neat that Shore used the augmented second interval to represent the ancient eras, and how the Lothlorien theme drops this interval by the end of the scores as it becomes engaged with modern middle earth. This returns the theme back to being played in the Phyrgian mode (without an augmented second interval).

 

Listening to the Woodland Realm theme, it seems to use the same Phrygian mode - giving it the same elven flavour. It doesn't appear to use the augmented second though. Is the Woodland Realm less old that Lothlorien in Middle Earth lore?

 

Smaug's theme and the Dol Guldur theme both emphasize the augmented second which is pretty neat. Would Smaug/Sauron date back to ancient times, before even the Woodland Realm?

Thranduil arrived to the Greenwood the Great in the first millenium of the Second Age (around 750 to be specific) with his father Oropher who was chosen as the king of local silvan elves and founded the Woodland Realm. After Oropher died in the War of the Last Alliance Thranduil took the throne. So the Woodland Realm is quite an old kingdom even by Elven standards. Lothlórien was officially founded around the same time even though Nandor elves had lived in the area of the Anduin vale already in the First Age. So both are old.

 

Tolkien doesn't state anywhere how old Smaug truly is. He supposedly came to the Lonely Mountain from the Withered Heath north of the Grey Mountains which had been long a domain of the dragons with some of them still living in the area and he was the mightiest of the fire-breathing kind in the Third Age. One might suppose Smaug was immensely old, either a refugee from the War of Wrath in the First Age (like the Balrog of Moria) or perhaps born in the Second Age.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

29 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Where does Tauriel fit in all this?

 

In Philippa Boyens' fever dreams?

[gkgyver 1,645]

If the book follows the complete extended scores, and we can't hear them because CRs are not in the foreseeable future, isn't that like writing an elaborate cookbook about New York cuisine, and wanting people on a diet to read it with enjoyment?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

No you wouldn't. I wouldn't.

Who wants to hear about great thematic variations, and that brilliant choral bit, and this and that, knowing that you won't be hearing it for a very very very long time, if ever? Are you serious?

Writing a book about music that nobody outside the Hobbit crew has even heard, what's the point?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

No, but if the book does talk about the expanded full scores, the music that is not on album or even public is obviously the most interesting part. 

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Don't write about music nobody reading the book can hear! What's the point? It's not difficult.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Fully agree.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Richard Penna 3,666]

12 hours ago, gkgyver said:

Don't write about music nobody reading the book can hear! What's the point? It's not difficult.

 

Well you can hear it in the film.

 

But yes, it will be a different thing to the LotR book, talking about music that's not available on CD.

 

I think based on Doug's tweets so far that we'll probably get a rarities CD of some sort.

[Doug Adams 494]

It's almost as if someone thought that writing about the complete scores would help reinforce their commercial viability, thus paving the road to potential future releases. What madness! 

 

 

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Well, given the fact that the Hobbit got the exact same commercial treatment as the LOTR trilogy, isn't it a bit logical to assume complete recordings would follow soon afterwards...?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

The level of patience Doug has with some people here is saintlike.  I'd be long gone.  

 

Cheers for everything you do, Doug!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's trying to sell books, which won't work if he starts throwing hissy fits!

[Doug Adams 494]

25 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Well, given the fact that the Hobbit got the exact same commercial treatment as the LOTR trilogy, isn't it a bit logical to assume complete recordings would follow soon afterwards...?

No.

 

1) LOTR and Hobbit did not get the same commercial treatment. The LOTR scores were initially released as standard suite-form OSTs, which left ample room for expansion. The Hobbit scores were released in nearly complete two-disc sets. This means Hobbit CRs would largely overlap the prior releases, which makes them a harder sell to the general public ... which makes producers jumpy.

 

2) Even ignoring the change in both film studios and record labels, release strategies vary greatly from property to property. They're not plugging material into a pre-eixtisting workflow. 

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Oh, sorry, I was referring to the film's releases. I just thought that, you know, given the fact that we got unnecessary fancy extended box sets for the three films and two album versions that were, with all due respect, unnecessary as well (what's standard about the standard editions?), complete recordings would be the logical next and last step. Also, a 5.1 presentation would, in my view, not be an overlap with what we have now.

[Doug Adams 494]

27 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

He's trying to sell books, which won't work if he starts throwing hissy fits!

 

Admittedly it's rare these days, but not all Americans throw "hissy fits."

 

 

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Doug Adams 494]

18 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh, sorry, I was referring to the film's releases. I just thought that, you know, given the fact that we got unnecessary fancy extended box sets for the three films and two album versions that were, with all due respect, unnecessary as well (what's standard about the standard editions?), complete recordings would be the logical next and last step. Also, a 5.1 presentation would, in my view, not be an overlap with what we have now.

 

The standard edition LOTR CDs vastly outsold the CRs, which were a niche collectors' item. Were they artistically superior? Yes, in my opinion. But that's not what drives the market. 

 

If you're referring to the home video releases of the films themselves, that's a different company. The albums are produced separately.  

[gkgyver 1,645]

If the OST sales numbers, LotR CR sales numbers, the commercial success of the movies, box office numbers, and cultural impact of the films as a whole don't convince the right people of the commercial viability of such a release, in some form, then I would guess the effect the content of a niche product book will have, is comparatively miniscule, if not imaginary.

 

How can people enjoy reading about music they can't hear, and if you can hear some of it, then either edited or buried under sound? It's very cruel.

 

I also don't think it's blasphemy to discuss decisions made for a product, that is after all made for us and the general public. I don't subscribe to the notion of "just be happy about what you're given, shut up, and don't ask". It's not too difficult making decisions and being patient if you are the composer, or if you are one of the very few people who can listen to the entire thing anytime they want.

We have the OSTs, which we know are edited; we have the score in the films, which is an editorial mess. Then we get a book that writes about all of this awesome stuff in unedited form. "Can we hear the music?" "Oh, no, I'm afraid you can't." 

I don't think you can honestly be surprised that there might be people who find this dangling carrot at least bewilderig, or even more. I find it kind of depressing actually.

[SafeUnderHill 205]