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The Lost World: 19 Years Ago


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25 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

That would be a cool approach if it involved an arc back to Spielbergian awe/optimism. But instead it was this disgusting mess that acted like it was satirizing crass commercialism while being a crass commercial product.

 

In case it was unclear, I really really really really really hate Jurassic World.

Yeah well... up yours!

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26 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

 I'm really looking forward to hearing the intended version; especially to hear any and all other statements of the main TLW theme in the score!

 

Believe it or not, there are actually only 3 cues in the entire film score that actually feature the main Lost World theme - To The Island, Heading North, and The Saving Dart.  And all 3 were included on the OST (The first two in "Malcolm's Journey", the last in "Finale and Jurassic Park Theme")

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

The film has so many great scenes 

 

 

 

This isn't one of them. This scene occupies that awkward spot of Spielberg's post Schindler's List work (in this instance precisely right after it) which isn't ever easy to work out whether or not the director was playing it straight or [hopefully] completely taking the piss. I mean, this sequence in particular is, from a certain point of view, Stanley Kubrick levels of eccentric observational humour, like something straight out of Clockwork Orange. But since when did Spielberg demonstrate a penchant for such anarchic finger poking satire? He never did. Moreover, in this instance such an approach is tonally completely at odds with the entire remainder of the movie. I pray Spielberg in actual fact was playing it for schlock value, but something about those hideously corny performances by this little family with those dandy English accents tells me they were shot with a degree of misjudged horror movie earnest. Because The Lost World is no dark comedy movie with a subtext of social satire. But the main point is I simply don't know, as stated, if Spielberg was joking in this scene or not. His post Schindler's List comedy is almost always bad. It's very, very bad. 

 

Quintus - having a déjà vu with this thread. 

 

Edited for legibility. 

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5 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

Really, that's it?  It feels like almost every cue in the first half has it.

 

Yes, that's it!  The only tracks on the OST with the Lost World theme are 1, 3, and 14.

 

 

 

 

*Unless, of course, you consider the main melody of "The Hunt" (The Round-Up) to be a variation of the TLW theme.

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10 minutes ago, Quintus said:

But the main point is I simply don't know, as stated, if Spielberg was joking in this scene or not. His post Schindler's List comedy is almost always bad. It's very, very bad.

 

Spielberg is way too serious about film to try to get one over on us here with some type of insider humor of a bored director.  I would bet money that he honestly thought it was funny, and wanted the audience to know it was funny.  See, isn't that transition hilarious?!  It was a giant miscalculation, as is the case with a lot of other things, not least of which is the gymnastics/raptor scene.

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Like I said earlier. Spielberg has a rather silly sense of humor (the eyeballs rolling away in Minority Report)

TLW has quite a lot of it. They were probably trying to fill up the film with as much stuff as possible between action set pieces. Some of it worked, some didnt. I found the opening rather disturbing.

 

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56 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

This isn't one of them. This scene occupies that awkward spot of Spielberg's post Schindler's List work (in this instance precisely right after it) which isn't ever easy to work out whether or not the director was playing it straight or [hopefully] completely taking the piss. I mean, this sequence in particular is, from a certain point of view, Stanley Kubrick levels of eccentric observational humour, like something straight out of Clockwork Orange. But since when did Spielberg demonstrate a penchant for such anarchic finger poking satire? He never did. Moreover, in this instance such an approach is tonally completely at odds with the entire remainder of the movie. I pray Spielberg in actual fact was playing it for schlock value, but something about those hideously corny performances by this little family with those dandy English accents tells me they were shot with a degree of misjudged horror movie earnest. Because The Lost World is no dark comedy movie with a subtext of social satire. But the main point is I simply don't know, as stated, if Spielberg was joking in this scene or not. His post Schindler's List comedy is almost always bad. It's very, very bad. 

 

Quintus - having a déjà vu with this thread. 

 

Edited for legibility. 

 

Wow, I couldn't possibly disagree more. It's one of the Top 3 moments of the whole film (and that's saying much, because there are a lot of them). It's basically Spielberg doing a riff on David Lean, one of his favourite directors (whose films often had amazing sound edits, especially in LAWRENCE). In fact, it's these playful and original uses of the visual tools at his disposal that makes him my favourite director. Like the 'walking shoes' in CATCH ME IF YOU CAN or the view of David in A.I. through the kitchen ceiling lamp, as if he's sitting inside some UFO, separated from his family both emotionally and mentally. This clip from TLW is right up there with them.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Believe it or not, there are actually only 3 cues in the entire film score that actually feature the main Lost World theme - To The Island, Heading North, and The Saving Dart.  And all 3 were included on the OST (The first two in "Malcolm's Journey", the last in "Finale and Jurassic Park Theme")

Awwww.... I was hoping there might me a bit more of it in the unreleased tracks.

Any other (non-TLW) thematic statements you know of that weren't on the OST?

 

But even with the main theme apparently being severely underused, it's still bloody brilliant and I'm sure the complete score will be even moreso! :D

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25 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Wow, I couldn't possibly disagree more. It's one of the Top 3 moments of the whole film (and that's saying much, because there are a lot of them). It's basically Spielberg doing a riff on David Lean, one of his favourite directors (whose films often had amazing sound edits, especially in LAWRENCE). In fact, it's these playful and original uses of the visual tools at his disposal that makes him my favourite director. Like the 'walking shoes' in CATCH ME IF YOU CAN or the view of David in A.I. through the kitchen ceiling lamp, as if he's sitting inside some UFO, separated from his family both emotionally and mentally. This clip from TLW is right up there with them.

 

We do indeed completely and utterly disagree about this. To me, the scene is a total non event in Spielberg's long and illustrious career. 

 

The movie in general though I think is perfectly fine entertainment and a decent enough sequel to a more iconic first film. 

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4 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Any other (non-TLW) thematic statements you know of that weren't on the OST?

 

Of course!

 

This might help you out:

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20325-score-the-lost-world-jurassic-park-john-williams-a-complete-score-analysis/

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I just watched Catch Me If You Can last week and don't recall what part you're talking about; Remind me?

 

It was a poor description on my part. I mean the sequence in the hotel corridor where it's like the shoes are 'talking' or interacting (not walking...duh!). No shots of the faces or persons wearing them. Same could also be applied to the scene with the camera on the guns, as if they were characters in themselves.

 

Another cool edit (executed beautifully by Michael Kahn, as always), is the scene in BRIDGE OF SPIES, where the court says 'all rise', and they cut to a classroom of kids rising from their chairs.

 

But the abovementioned edit in TLW is one of the very best in Spielberg's entire career -- so many things going on there at the same time!

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2 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

It was a poor description on my part. I mean the sequence in the hotel corridor where it's like the shoes are 'talking' (not walking...duh!). Same could also be applied to the scene with the camera on the guns, as if they were characters in themselves.

 

Geez - I literally watched the film last week and have no idea what scenes you're talking about

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52 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Geez - I literally watched the film last week and have no idea what scenes you're talking about

 

Here you go. It's not so much a scene, as a few shot-reverse shots, I guess:

 

 

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Ok.  That's your example of brilliant Spielberg/Kahn editing?  Interesting.

 

BTW, that entire Jennifer Garner scene stuck out like a soar thumb when we watched it last week.  It literally has no connection to anything else in the entire movie

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14 minutes ago, Jay said:

Ok.  That's your example of brilliant Spielberg/Kahn editing?  Interesting.

 

No, but we were talking about other cool audiovisual "tricks" that Spielberg often employ (beyond the editing) earlier.

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The movie is silly fun and has a delirious sense of how to set action scenes. The Williams score is a (fun) notch above the thematically bland, obvious 'Jurassic Park': riffing on 'King Kong' (and 'Predator') seems the only way to meet movies like this at eye level. Also with Postlewhaite and his marauding gang there's much more fun to be had than with those Disney kids and Sam Neill on a tree.

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I remember to be very disappointed in my 14s after hearing the score. It was nothing similar to the original film.

 

Now its great music, but the mess in the film and the shortness (and missing great bits) of the OST really dont make the score justice. And for the scores i like...missing parts of them really takes some enjoyment out of the listening experience (happens with SW and Indy too) I'm glad this has ended and we finally can hear the whole thing and then some (unused music YAY!)

 

The film is entertaining but rather corny at times. I enjoy much more the original. JPIII is rather fun for what it is, and Jurassic world was great for 2015 standards.

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I remember reading reviews about how stupid it was to take baby Rex back to the trailer. At least that was one of the book sequences they kept in the movie. So much else was different. 

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6 hours ago, Quintus said:

The transition to Goldblum with the train sound was probably an afterthought though, I'd bet on it. 

 

It was definitely an afterthought. Originally the shot of the screaming mother transitioned into a shot of an InGen board director yawning (not joking). That scene then transitioned into the shot of Malcolm yawning at the train station. 

 

Not sure what the hell Spielberg was getting at here, he clearly intended some kind of subliminal commentary by having two scenes starting with yawning characters (even if the InGen boardroom scene got cut).

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I have a very clear memory of seeing the first Jurassic Park film in theaters, but that cannot be possible because I was about two years old in '93. So I probably got mixed up with TLW and that's the film I must have seen and that started a lifelong obsession with dinosaurs. 

 

Anyways, I've always had a soft spot for the film as a whole, even it most of the non-dinosaur scenes are dull as fuck. But when it works, I truly adore it. Most of this includes the set-pieces, like the Raptor attack, the Rexes and the trailer (even if it doesn't really make any sense as a whole -the constant low angle the Rexes walk when they're looking through the trailer window, why they leave and come back, how the trailer falls down in a perfectly convenient line so our heroes don't get hurt and so on...) and I've always really adored the Rex in the city sequence. I don't know why, it just works for me. It might have something to do with my thinking-process nearing the age of 10 and thinking about an actual T-Rex drinking water from our pool and such. But most of all I think that particular sequence works for me because it feels fresh, what (maybe) the focus of the sequel should have been on, even if I really like the somber light-adventure tone the island section has. 

 

Jumanji is a similar movie from the same time period that I adored as well as a child, but I watch it now and it doesn't do anything for me anymore, except for one or two moments here and there. But with TLW, I still get excited, pumped; I guess even in his worst day, Spielberg can make a damn fine popcorn flick.

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I was there opening day for the film and loved it. I prefer it to the original. As such, I acquired the score not long afterward and loved it as well.

 

I now live 10 minutes away from where they filmed the ending of the movie and I occasionally drive around the warehouses listening to "Visitor In San Diego".

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

A twelve year old kid being able to knock over a velociraptor is the stupidest thing in the entire movie for sure

 

What's even more damning is that it is the ONLY time a human being kills a dinosaur in the first three JP films. That only changed recently with Jurassic World when the InGen team shot a rocket at one of Owen's raptors.

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55 minutes ago, scallenger said:

 

What's even more damning is that it is the ONLY time a human being kills a dinosaur in the first three JP films. That only changed recently with Jurassic World when the InGen team shot a rocket at one of Owen's raptors.

Clear over-kill. They should have had one of the InGen Marlboro men do a gymnastic stunt on it.

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13 hours ago, Thor said:

1941 is Spielberg's worst film. THE LOST WORLD belongs in the upper half, just slightly below the "classics". It's still HUGELY underrated, almost 20 years later.

 

While I agree that 1941 is his "worst" I do so only in that 1941 tries way, way to hard and is jam packed with so much stuff that it trips over itself many times. That being said I still enjoy the film and it's far superior than much of the tripe that is churned out by Hollywood year after year. Calling it Spielberg's worst is like calling a painting Leonardo's worst. It's still better than so many other.

 

TLW is grossly underrated and falls into the category of going bigger but not the same as it's predecessor that fails to garner critical and so-called popular aclaim. Then again doing much the same (The Hangover II) gets you pretty much the opposite negative reaction. Like TFA.

 

I only have 2 gripes with TLW or otherwise would hold it with as much regard as I do JP. 

 

First, after the last island chase and helicopter rescue the transition to the Ingen helicopter is a classic Spielberg trick but it lacks a complete sense of time elapsed because it goes from a middle of the night scene to another middle of the night scene. I believe as everyone is getting rescued and as Ludlow is "congratulating" Roland the scene setting should have been dawn, followed by the Ingen helicopter landing at the San Diego dock at Dusk. It would show that time has passed between the 2 scenes rather than feeling like after a long chase through an island jungle, later that night a T-Rex rampages San Diego.

 

Second, and I'm sure everyone can agree.... WTF happens on the boat? Was it Raptors? Compys? Spontaneous Combustion? It wasn't the Rex but there's no explanation and I feel that confuses the viewer. But the Rex attacking the light pole kind of makes up for it.

 

As for the score, so different and so exciting. Can't wait to get my hands and ears on the full expanded score!

 

And I'm sure everyone knows but the cameo at the end is always awesome.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, FC4L said:

Second, and I'm sure everyone can agree.... WTF happens on the boat? Was it Raptors? Compys? Spontaneous Combustion? It wasn't the Rex but there's no explanation and I feel that confuses the viewer. But the Rex attacking the light pole kind of makes up for it.

That is a very odd moment, which is never explained. Did the T-Rex kill everybody and then lock itself up in the cargo hold to make a dramatic exit when the InGen worker opens the hatch? Were there other dinosaurs onboard who killed the crew and where are they now? This bothered from the first viewing back in 1997.

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2 hours ago, Selina Kyle said:

I now live 10 minutes away from where they filmed the ending of the movie and I occasionally drive around the warehouses listening to "Visitor In San Diego".

 

Are those hours sans the 'Batman' soundtrack a huge challenge?

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7 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

It was definitely an afterthought. Originally the shot of the screaming mother transitioned into a shot of an InGen board director yawning (not joking). That scene then transitioned into the shot of Malcolm yawning at the train station. 

 

Not sure what the hell Spielberg was getting at here, he clearly intended some kind of subliminal commentary by having two scenes starting with yawning characters (even if the InGen boardroom scene got cut).

 

It's clearly meant to suggest a joke for the audience, on the "Been there, done that! Booooring!" sentiment in regards to Malcolm. But the fact that the jawn is "melted" between the screaming woman and the subway screech makes it a weird scream-jawn hybrid. Also, the jungle poster in the background is meant as a fun 'displacement', as if Malcolm was standing next to the girl, jawning at her misfortune. I love that cut so much, it gives me goosebumps just talking about it. Afterthought or not, it's pure genius!

 

3 hours ago, FC4L said:

First, after the last island chase and helicopter rescue the transition to the Ingen helicopter is a classic Spielberg trick but it lacks a complete sense of time elapsed because it goes from a middle of the night scene to another middle of the night scene. I believe as everyone is getting rescued and as Ludlow is "congratulating" Roland the scene setting should have been dawn, followed by the Ingen helicopter landing at the San Diego dock at Dusk. It would show that time has passed between the 2 scenes rather than feeling like after a long chase through an island jungle, later that night a T-Rex rampages San Diego.

 

I agree it's a bit of an abrupt time transition between the island and San Diego, but I think it's counterweighed by keeping the rhythmic momentum up.

 

Quote

 

Second, and I'm sure everyone can agree.... WTF happens on the boat? Was it Raptors? Compys? Spontaneous Combustion? It wasn't the Rex but there's no explanation and I feel that confuses the viewer. But the Rex attacking the light pole kind of makes up for it.

 

This is no issue to me, if by 'boat' you're referring to the ship that takes the T-Rex back to the mainland at the end. It's a classic 'hitchcockian' tool (which Spielberg has employed many times), i.e. 'you fear what you don't see'. You don't need to have the T-Rex's  escape fully explained -- one's speculation is what gives it presence. This is actually a STRENGTH to me, not a weakness.

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5 hours ago, scallenger said:

 

What's even more damning is that it is the ONLY time a human being kills a dinosaur in the first three JP films. That only changed recently with Jurassic World when the InGen team shot a rocket at one of Owen's raptors.

Not... really. In fact Jurassic world breaks the rule.

 

In all films prior, all the kids kill dinosaurs. Only Kelly's dino death is seen on screen.

 

Tim's raptor is frozen to death, and Eric trips several unable-to-fly baby pteranodons over the cliffs.

 

The kids in JW dont kill anything!

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I remember it took me a few listens to get into the main title track "The Lost World," but when I did, boy, I was blown away!

 

Still, it took me a few years to appreciate the complete TLW score as I have eventually come to do. I remember everybody saying at the beginning how dissonant and difficult a score it is (kinda like WotW) but I don't agree. It's the perfect "monster score".

 

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17 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

i never got into dvd rips or mockups. I wanted to be blown away then it was released officially

 

I hope my wait pays offf :)

I really had to delve into this stuff through the mock-ups and DVD rips when I wrote my analysis for JWFan.com, which was the only way to do it only those few short years ago. It is fantastic to be able to hear the real pieces of music for the first time after getting acquainted to the music through the mock-ups, that while great and well done by some talented people here, gave only an inkling of what the actual music sounds like.

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24 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

And now you will get to redo it and fix all the mistakes you made!

 

;)

Yes!

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TLW is not a great movie by any means, but it's probably more enjoyable than it's usually credited for. The big problem is the thin writing by David Koepp, who succeeded in simplify every narrative thread even more than he did in JP. Plus, there is a lot of inconsequential writing in terms of characters and plotting, and some quite dumb dialogue as well. However, the JP movies work best as monster movies and I like how Spielberg stressed its B-Movie nature even more than the first time. There are some impressive action set-pieces, some of which go into that giddy, almost sadistic sense of fun. However, it seems Spielberg lost interest in his own story and characters as he went along, so that when reach the film's climax we don't care much about their fate.

 

One of the most underrated aspects of this film is that Spielberg kind of modelled it after Howard Hawks' Hatari!, which is clearly homaged in the hunting sequence:

 

 

 

 

It also seems that some of Henry Mancini's score for that movie informed at least part of Williams' approach to the music for The Lost World, esp. the use of tribal-like textures in the percussion.

 

 

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I found the score to be much darker than I had imagined after reading the original book (I was in College back then). The score had great surprises ins tore and Williams nod to Max Steiner's own KING KONG was quite interesting. He went for a more edgier, brooding material. the Main Theme is majestic but much shades darker. 'The Stegosaurus' is also a great favourite of mine it has an almost spiritual serenity in the middle but then the ostinato driven brass flutters break up the harmony and create chaos. Its one one most hypnotic cues on the album. The bright and cheerful 'The Hunt' is a delightful little scherzo like piece that was one of the great highlights. The overall action cues are not as great as on the original film but the diversity of the orchestration, the mood and ambience was extremely enjoyable over the years. I whole heatedly welcome the new release!

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