bespinGPT 8,952 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said: I listened to the OST's a few weeks back. The TLW OST program is just really badly sequenced, especially in the second half. The B-side of the LP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,617 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ah, the OS album of The Lost World.... It took a lot of flak, many people hated it, the words and phrase most often mentioned in connection with it are "dissonant" and "dark" and "hard to get into." And, yes, it was hard to get into for me, as well, except the instantly memorable first track and main title.... But then something strange happened. Over the course of "decades" (it took me a very long time) I began to discover "little gems." First it was "The Hunt" and then "Sarah's Rescue" and then "Stegosaurus" and then "Visitor to San Diego" etc. And I never stopped listening to it! No, it's a great score and great OS album (I will always treasure it!). The LLL version just puts it over the top. bespinGPT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 572 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 There is certainly great music on the OST. It's just not presented in a digestible program. Editing the OST into a chronological program already makes a difference, but the OST and the complete score are night and day in terms of listening experience. crumbs and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,617 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Sure, but that's also pretty much a matter of taste. I for one rarely listen to an OS album chronologically from start to finish (even the most popular ones, like Star Wars, Jurassic Park, etc.) so that never bothered me. One thing I realize now looking back is that this soundtrack (and as a consequence this soundtrack album) always held a certain fascination for me. I never stopped listening to it, like I do with some JW albums. Come to think of it, it's like the "Island's Voice" beckoning me to give it a try and revisit it over and over again..... But yeah, no doubt, the addition of the never before released music on the LLL album is absolutely mind-blowing and fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 15,146 Posted January 5, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2017 There's a clear throughline of brilliant thematic development in the complete chronological score (The Island's Voice motif) that is simply absent on the OST. JW re-ordered his score into a haphazard dissonant slog with the OST sequencing. The Trek and Finding Camp Jurassic makes for a particularly grueling 8 and a 1/2 minutes only 17 minutes into the listening experience. This is a section of the score that needs some more lyrical music like The Stegosaurus, but that's bizarrely relegated to the fourth last track. It just jumps back and forth between light and dark throughout and it's all very confused, stylistically. The gradual descent from jazzy, adventurous, percussive rhythm into dark, uncompromising dissonance is one of the great joys of the score in complete, chronological form. It feels earned, a steady devolution from the rhythmic percussion that starts the adventure into something primeval and wild, mirroring the film's journey into the dangerous interior of Site B. artguy360, Taikomochi, Pieter Boelen and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,598 Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Well said, @crumbs, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,373 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I actually don't mind the TLW OST's flow too much, though it does have its lulls. The JP OST sequencing bothers me more (although there's of course a lot more amazingness missing from TLW). In any case, how great is it to have the whole scores to each?! Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,272 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 There will be no civility! If you don't agree that The Lost World OST was shit, you're not welcome 'round these parts! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The OST was fine. CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,373 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 In any case, this score is a f#&$ing beast. Absolutely loving the whole end portion of Streets of San Diego. (Nothing new, of course - it's just such badass writing. Never gets old.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The Lost World is a good example of a score that really improved upon getting a complete release. E.g. the recent Intrada release of The Rocketeer added significant amount of material between the central setpieces found on the original OST album but the original album was very well put together and works extremely well on its own and thus the unreleased material while great to have to bolster the musical structure and narrative, didn't actually prove to be a huge revelation. With TLW I feel the 40 minutes of additional music have a much bigger impact and adds significantly to the whole score from start to finish and actually reveals qualities the OST just didn't fully have space to explore in-depth in those 68 minutes of its running time. Plus many of the pieces are if not major setpieces significant and interesting cues in their own right. The Visitor in San Diego in its entirety is one of the most viciously riveting action setpieces from Williams in the 1990's an absolute tour-de-force for the percussion section and orchestra that leaves me breathless every time. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,373 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Agreed on all points. TLW really takes on a rather different feel when heard in its entirety. There's just a lot of great stuff they didn't find room for on the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 And the new release has better sound! CuriousMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,373 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 ...for TLW, yes! Dynamic range concerns aside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 2,044 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Incanus said: E.g. the recent Intrada release of The Rocketeer My god, this release slipped my radar or I must have forgotten about it when announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: My god, this release slipped my radar or I must have forgotten about it when announced. It's still worth it even if you already have the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 848 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Listened to a few more of the unreleased tracks of TLW yesterday and they're becoming more brilliant with each listen! Once more the short little piano bit in "Ripples" stood out to me. Does anyone happen to know what that was meant to underscore? It seems like such a random thing to throw in there, but I'm sure there must be a very good reason for it. Also, does anyone have any idea how come TLW turned out to be so very different from the first Jurassic Park? Is that something Spielberg asked for? Or was it John Williams being exceptionally inspired to do something quite new instead? I've got to say, it totally works very well, but it is totally unexpected too. And who in his right mind follows up the two upbeat themes of the original Jurassic Park with a theme like "The Lost World"? How he managed to make something so much darker, yet still with such a sense of adventure, is beyond me. I can't think of anything that Williams wrote that is quite the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Buy the CD so you can read the liner noted, and have some of your questions answered. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 848 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Whoever says I didn't already do exactly that? Oh wait, *I* said that. Several weeks back. I even remember you being annoyed because I happened to receive it sooner than you did. Sorry about that, by the way. If I would have had any choice in the matter, you would have been quite welcome to get it first. That is the second time this week that you try to scold me for very little reason. Do you have a problem with me? Actually, don't answer that. I don't even care to know. As it is, I figured my previous post was an interesting subject very much in line with the intended purpose of this thread. The liner notes don't really answer all of my questions and certainly not in the detail I'd be interested in. As mentioned by other people as well, they focus more on the historical background behind the making of the films rather than the music. So I'd be far more interested to hear your thoughts on that instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 In my defense these are topics that have been discussed in the last 2 months in a variety of threads already. Don't get pissy just because you are a bit Johnny come lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 848 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I indeed haven't been able to keep up with everything being discussed on the forum. Seriously, there is SO MUCH here, and often not on topic, so with my limited time I have to focus on only those threads that seem to be the most interesting. This particular thread though I have been keeping up on ever since it started for obvious reasons. I don't remember my questions being answered here before, but maybe I won't rule out that I missed it. Or maybe it happened as part of an off topic discussion somewhere else. Either may very well be the case, but I wouldn't know. If anyone still remembers, I wouldn't mind a link to the bit that I accidentally missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 With regards to your second question. The second film lacks the awe aspect and is darker in tone. So i think its just a case of the score reflecting that. Both the film and score feel like stylistic exercises. Not much in the way of substance. But excellent displays of technical prowess. For once neither seemed like they felt particularly bogges down by the legacy of the first film. At least that the feeling I always had. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 572 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I get the deadline Williams chose to score the first half of the film's title rather than then the second. That idea was then slightly turned around in editing by using the TLW theme more prominently via tracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think Spielberg's original brief of making TLW score more exotic and percussive with jungle or tribal drums rhythms as the driving element also indicates that Spielberg wanted to really diffrentiate between the two films in tone and style. It also gave Williams a great opportunity to go into a new direction which seems to be the instinct for most composers anyway and Williams is not an exception despite having big leitmotivic score series under his belt. He always is quick to note how much of his sequel scores contain new material, which he usually writes in abundance, and also constructs his albums to highlight his new music (often at the expense of old established themes). Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 And the jazz man! The jazz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Jazz has always been there man! In TLW it might be more pronounced than in many of his scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,617 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 59 minutes ago, Stefancos said: And the jazz man! The jazz! The jazz is in JP too. Just listen to "Dennis Steals The Embryo"! If that's not jazz, I don't know what is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dimitrescu 9,170 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Uthhhe your jathhhhe handthhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 572 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 8-1-2017 at 0:30 PM, Pieter_Boelen said: Once more the short little piano bit in "Ripples" stood out to me. Does anyone happen to know what that was meant to underscore? The Rex bares his teeth over Kelly's head, then we pan over to Kelly and see a tear rolling down her face. It's the last shot before it cuts back to Malcolm outside. The piano comes in right as the shot moves to Kelly's face. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,598 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Mr. Breathmask said: I get the deadline Williams chose to score the first half of the film's title rather than then the second. That idea was then slightly turned around in editing by using the TLW theme more prominently via tracking. Maybe its because I haven't had coffee yet, but I've read this 3 times and don't understand what you're saying. Can you reword? crumbs and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,146 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, Jay said: Maybe its because I haven't had coffee yet, but I've read this 3 times and don't understand what you're saying. Can you reword? Thank Christ, it wasn't just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 572 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 "I get the deadline" should be "I get the idea". Stupid autocorrect. My point was that the original idea was probably to go with a jungle sound (as you'd expect from a film called The Lost World). After scoring, there might have been some doubt if the score was adventurous enough for a Jurassic Park score, as it doesn't have a prominent adventure theme like the first one. This was then fixed by tracking the concert theme into the film at various places. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,598 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think I get it. When you say "the first half of the film's title", you mean "The Lost World", because the full title of the film is "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 572 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Deep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,399 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said: After scoring, there might have been some doubt if the score was adventurous enough for a Jurassic Park score, as it doesn't have a prominent adventure theme like the first one. This was then fixed by tracking the concert theme into the film at various places. Now, after having seen TLW again as an adult, it had a sour aftertaste to me, as i had the impression that the movie as well as the use of music were edited, changed and cut to make it more comfortable to all the mainstream viewers. Without that coward producers it could probably have been a more interesting, unique film. Then the score would have been used with more respect, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,504 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You can agree or disagree with certain creative decisions regarding music edits for The Lost World but I hardly think it makes Spielberg a coward for deciding to track the main theme in certain places. That's a little strong. The original intentions were really cool and it's kind of a shame they weren't used. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,146 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I don't think Spielberg cared about the film all that much by that point. Wasn't he overseas shooting Amistad for most of post anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 It was the film he did to get back into the habit of things after the gruelling emotional experience that was Schindlers List. Something that was technical and a pretty safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,399 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think it was not only Spielberg who was responsible for that changes in post-production. I just don't get any other word than "coward" which is of course too strong in order to say that they wanted to save a box office success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 848 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The one thing I cannot understand, is why "The Hunt" was not actually used in the film. Other than that, I can follow the reasoning of most of the editing; even though it would have been preferred had it not been necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,598 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 I don't really follow Spielberg's logic with that much myself either. Tracking in the Main Theme for "heroic" scenes I can understand, but that is far from a heroic scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,399 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 TLW had much potential to become an ambitious movie, more than a simple entertainment movie, but editing the music to get a brighter/more heroic atmosphere was the first step away from that, as was the chaotic post-production and the will to limit its running time to 2 hours. To be less stocky it would have needed at least a running time of 150 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 2,044 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Jay said: I think I get it. When you say "the first half of the film's title", you mean "The Lost World", because the full title of the film is "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". Is that right? I got that, guys.... and im not a english native... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,598 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Like I said, I was half-asleep! In my uncaffeinated stupor, I was thinking the half the film's title was "Lost" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,146 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Jay said: I don't really follow Spielberg's logic with that much myself either. Tracking in the Main Theme for "heroic" scenes I can understand, but that is far from a heroic scene I think the tracking in the round-up scene was as simple as Spielberg saying, "I want the main theme statement over the epic shot of the whole herd, so work backwards from there." The tracked music fits amazingly well for that shot; it strikes me as SS wanting a "Welcome to Jurassic Park" awe-inspiring moment for the sequel. I was only 10 when I first saw TLW but I was a huge fan of the music in JP, without really understanding film music. I still remember seeing that moment and immediately thought, "this is the new Lost World theme!" because I didn't understand why the original JP theme was mostly absent. Of course, imagine my confusion after getting the soundtrack and hearing this amazing action track called The Hunt at the start of the album. In a funny way, maybe that's what sparked my interest in this score, John Williams and film music generally? Jamie Dutton and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Dutton 7,692 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 After giving the complete chronological JP many listens, I believe I'll have to make some changes for a better listening experience. I thought the 20th was a great presentation of the score. It had the best unreleased parts to sequence into an already strong album. One of my issues with the complete JP are all these short cues and cues with no resolve that make absolutely no musical sense. "Incident At Isla Nublar" is a great album track, but the film cue ends awkwardly. It just sounds stupid to me while I'm listening through. "You Bred Raptors" and "The Saboteur" are pointless. Hell, "Entrance of Mr. Hammond" was better segueing into "The History Lesson". "Race to the Docks" is another short cue with an awkward abrupt end. This is stuff that works in the film, but not as a listening experience. It's why it was never on the OST or expanded version. I realize I'm in the minority here and you all worship every note of this score. But every time I hear "You Bred Raptors" I'm wondering why the hell you guys wanted it so badly. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yeah...we're the crazy ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Dutton 7,692 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 You're crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm the only sane person here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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