Temp Scoring - Can it be a Good Creative Challenge for Composers Today?

[Arpy 4,145]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm making a presentation on creative people in the film industry for a uni project and was wondering how much impact temp scoring can have on composers and if it can be a good creative challenge? Does it hinder composers, or give them a starting point to base their music on?

So far, in recent memory, I can remember the late James Horner talk about how temp tracks were a pain in the ass, but are there other examples of film composers talking of temp tracks?

 

[Faleel 5,340]

Chuck composer Tim Jones talked about manipulating Temp Tracks in a podcast.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,506]

NO! NO!! NO!!!

Franklin J. Schafner once heard a temp-track on one of his films...it was removed, immediately.

I believe that it is good, and right, that a director try to express what kind of music that they want ("low and slow" was Lynch's brief to Toto) but to use music immediately puts the composer on the back foot. Look what happened in the FREUD/ALIEN debacle.

The fact is that most directors don't have much, if any, musical vocabulary, and fall back on temp music because it's the easy option.

If more directors truly paid attention to exactly what they wanted, musically, and how to get it, we'd have far more "original" scores, and far less generic shit. Châteaubriand is always better than hot dog.

[Arpy 4,145]

Ah yes, I had completely forgotten the Alien situation. I'm not suggesting that temp scoring is a good idea, just asking if it was or if there were any arguments for it!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,506]

There are many arguments, and rationales, for it, but it smacks of cheating.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

It goes both ways. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bespin 8,480]

And what about all those directors who made temp movies on John Williams scores!

[Richard Penna 3,674]

I'd prefer to avoid temp tracks wherever possible. If the director gets attached to it, then they're either going to licence the track (denying the composer their job) or force the composer to write like it. Maybe using the most generic possible stock music could work, because then the composer's music will sound fresh and exciting.

 

I actually did once have an experience of getting original music written for a short film we made, within work. Someone in another project offered to write some music for us and I sent them the film with the music we had been intending to use (clips of soundtracks - probably fell under fair use).

 

The problem in that case wasn't that I was attached to the initial music (in fact, it was slightly generic music from The Tudors that I was more than happy to replace), but that the music we got didn't match the mood or tone at all - it gave the film a very different sound (the director even remarked that she thought the composed music was the temp). Unfortunately we were only communicating by e-mail, so this was hard to get across.

 

Eventually, we had to do an 11th hour re-edit and had no choice but to choose pre-existing music. Technically that is my first rejected score!

[Incanus 5,713]

Temp score is a good servant but a horrible master.

[Richard Penna 3,674]

Maybe the temp score should be shown to the composer once, then permanently removed.

 

I've replaced soundtracks with stock music on two holiday videos, and in both cases, I ended up with some cues that bore little resemblance. They just worked as well in context as the originals. I think that's the key if temping has to be used - just as a way of the director communicating what sort of sound they're after, and not having to use musical terms.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

2 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Temp score is a fickle bitch.

I think the fickleness is more on the director/editor/producing committee end of the collaboration.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

2 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

That's a lot of fickle bitches.

What would you call that? A gaggle of fickles?

[Thor 7,477]

3 hours ago, Incanus said:

Temp score is a good servant but a horrible master.

 

This pretty much sums it up perfectly. Temp tracks CAN be a negative thing, of course, but I think it also receives a lot of undeserved flack. It can also be a very useful tool. It depends entirely on how confident the composer and director are, and especially how confident they are in each other.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

He pulls a hammer, you pull a power drill. He sends one of yours to the lumber yard, you send one of his to Home Depot! 

[Will 2,215]

14 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

We're going back to the same old "a tool isn't good or bad, it's the use you make of it that's good or bad" conclusion we've already come to with special effects, color grading, etc.

 

And digital composing tools! 

[Bespin 8,480]

9 minutes ago, Will said:

And digital composing tools! 

 

I'm currently working on a John Williams Star Wars music generator, I will call it The Djiatchino Machine. It will also make coffee.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

3 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Temp score is a fickle bitch.

 

I'm not you, BloodBowl. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Damn it, thought you were intentionally quoting Ben Linus. 

 

You fucked it up!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ben who?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

38 minutes ago, Prerecorded Briefing said:

 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Ben Linus!

 

[Will 2,215]

That idea of only letting the composer watch the film once with temp track sounds cool. Might strike a good balance between composer freedom and directors' ideas.

 

The major problem with not having a temp track is that it doesn't necessarily mean the director gives the composer much freedom and trusts their vision.

 

For example, it seems like for Fantastic Beasts Yates brought JNH on super-early so he could temp with new JNH music. 

 

Of course, I suppose it's possible that even before that JNH was shown a temp track of older music, but I get the sense that the process worked a little differently on this film since JNH revised many cues 30-40 times.

 

Perhaps Yates gave JNH freedom with his initial ideas, but then forced him to keep changing over time.

 

Whereas perhaps it would have been better if Yates had hammered home what he wanted and JNH could have done things faster. 

 

I'm just speculating about most of the circumstances here but even as a hypothetical scenario this is interesting to consider. 

[publicist 4,643]

This very score suffered more by the uninspired 'Polar Express'/'Edward Scissorhands' lift that rears its ugly head throughout the dramatically important finale. I don't know what Yates had JNH change in 'his' cues (they sound like pure JNH through and through) but this is a hell of a lame request to your composer: cite worn-out trailer-raped clichés from 15-30 years ago that stick out like a sore thumb.

 

It's basically a textbook example of all things bad about temp tracks.

[Arpy 4,145]

The lifting of that music is what makes listening to the finale difficult.