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SPOILER TALK: Rogue One by Gareth Edwards


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I am downgrading my score from 5/10 to 4/10. The Vader scene that accounted for 4 of the original points is losing one point. It is directed in a bit of a cheesy way with, for example, the pseudo-first person perspective that doesn't hold up to repeat viewings. 

 

The scene just lacks a certain choreographic/cinematic grace. 

 

Amazing concept for that scene, but execution is a bit cringey. It's going to look very awkward in about 10 years. 

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8 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Something confuses me.

 

So the rebels stole the plans, got them to Leia, who was then going to take them to her dad on Alderaan? Why not just go to the rebel base? And if they couldn't because they were being pursued by Vader, then why go to Tattooine? Were they on their way to Alderaan, and their ship broke and they happened to be over tattooine?

 

Also, Vader literally watched the Tantive IV escape with the plans, but when he confronts Leia, she says that they were on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan. Who does she think she's fooling? 

 

They were on their way to Tatooine (per her father's request) to pick up Kenobi. And—as king mark said—what was she supposed to say to Vader? Own up to the whole thing? She had to play her part as best she could, for as long as she could.

 

 

8 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

That could be the explanation... But makes no sense as she was brought to a suicide attack into an imperial station. She is a senator, and therefore cannot risk being seen with the rebels. Her ship's ID would be shouting "Alderaan senator" loudly.

 

Maybe she was hoping the Imperials would honor diplomatic immunity. . . .

 

 

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I've only seen it once so far but I really enjoyed this movie a lot.  I'll list the few things that bugged me.

 

The ending sequence seemed to happen so fast I couldn't follow how the plans actually got to Leia's ship.  Was her ship docked within one of the Alliance command ships?  And then, so Vader watches it leave, but how the hell does he find it again by the beginning of ANH?  If it entered hyperspace how does he know where it's going?

 

I don't understand why Obi-Wan is even involved in this at all.  Why wouldn't Leia's ship just take the plans back to Yavin 4? 

 

The C-3PO and R2-D2 cameo was stupid.  I think they either should have played an actual role in the events or just not been showed at all.  And they should have been on Leia's ship the whole time.

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14 hours ago, Demodex said:

I've only seen it once so far but I really enjoyed this movie a lot.  I'll list the few things that bugged me.

 

The ending sequence seemed to happen so fast I couldn't follow how the plans actually got to Leia's ship.  Was her ship docked within one of the Alliance command ships?  And then, so Vader watches it leave, but how the hell does he find it again by the beginning of ANH?  If it entered hyperspace how does he know where it's going?

 

I don't understand why Obi-Wan is even involved in this at all.  Why wouldn't Leia's ship just take the plans back to Yavin 4? 

 

In ESB, when the 'starfleet deployed' scene, the imperial said that they can plot the possible exit routes of the falcon...

 

Obi-wan involvement is to help the Alliance since they have decided to make a blunt war against the empire. Prior to the events of Rogue one it seems the rebels are doing smaller hit-n-run or guerrilla conflicts. He is no related to the Death star plans. Leia was sent to bring him, and when she was involved with the plans and captured near him her only 'hope' was giving the plans to him so he could give them to his father.

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16 hours ago, Demodex said:

The ending sequence seemed to happen so fast I couldn't follow how the plans actually got to Leia's ship.  Was her ship docked within one of the Alliance command ships?  And then, so Vader watches it leave, but how the hell does he find it again by the beginning of ANH?  If it entered hyperspace how does he know where it's going?

 

Good point. From indications in the OT, once a ship goes to hyperspace, it's pretty much lost. They had to put a tracker aboard the Falcon in ANH in order to trace its heading to Yavin 4, and once the Falcon made the jump at the end of Empire, the pursuit—and the movie—came to an end. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

In ESB, when the 'starfleet deployed' scene, the imperial said that they can plot the possible exit routes of the falcon...

 

They could plot their departure heading and extrapolate a possible destination, but all someone would have to do to foil that would be to drop out of hyperspace down the road a bit, recalculate a new course, and jump again. Such a simple tactic would (presumably) be common practice in any kind of guerrilla unit trying to avoid Imperial detection.

 

 

16 hours ago, Demodex said:

I don't understand why Obi-Wan is even involved in this at all.  Why wouldn't Leia's ship just take the plans back to Yavin 4? 

 

Skywalker's answer is on point. She was (supposedly) already headed to Tatooine to pick up Obi-Wan. The plans just wound up on her ship, and when Vader caught up to her, she had to stash them in Artoo in an attempt to reach Obi-Wan with them. 

 

Of course, that brings back up the point of her presence at the battle. Earlier in the movie, Bail Organa said (implied, rather) that he would be sending her to recruit Obi-Wan for the war. Why wasn't she off doing that, then? How did she wind up at the battle at the end? That really made no sense, and—again—it would've made much more sense (and fit better with the dialogue in ANH) if they'd transmitted the plans to her ship while it was on its way to Tatooine. 

 

 

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The main issue with the ending is that there's really no need for Tantive IV to be a part of the battle. The only reason that's done is for the cool fan service after the heroes have all died.

 

It's actually quite messy story telling to have the two droids ending up back on the same planet they apparently were. Adds to the whole small universe issue that Star Wars seems to have at the moment. Instead of expanding outwards it's only adding to it's existing storyline by cramming in stuff between the established episodes.

 

 

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Totally agreed.

 

The ending would have been a million times better if the Tantive IV had nothing to do with the Scarif Battle at all, and were simply beamed the plans by someone there... and also if we never saw R2 and 3P0 until we saw the Tantive IV at the very end.

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Has anyone thought about how the explanation in Rogue One of how they got the plans and Erso planting a flaw in the Death Star design, actually has a negative impact on the Force Awakens story with the Starkiller Base?

 

How did they get the plans for the Starkiller Base? And also it was destroyed in such an easy way of blowing up one thing will destroy the entire planet...

 

A New Hope's easy Death Star destruction is now easily explained in Rogue One, by how it was all designed to be destroyed with ease by Erso, but Rogue One now makes Force Awakens' easy Starkiller destruction look idiotic.

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2 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Has anyone thought about how the explanation in Rogue One of how they got the plans and Erso planting a flaw in the Death Star design, actually has a negative impact on the Force Awakens story with the Starkiller Base?

 

How did they get the plans for the Starkiller Base? And also it was destroyed in such an easy way of blowing up one thing will destroy the entire planet...

 

A New Hope's easy Death Star destruction is now easily explained in Rogue One, by how it was all designed to be destroyed with ease by Erso, but Rogue One now makes Force Awakens' easy Starkiller destruction look idiotic.

 

Don't forget the Death Star II from ROTJ!

 

Just now, KK said:

TFA's Starkiller really is a dumb plot device. The more you think about it, the more stupid it seems.

 

Completely agreed!

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That was an issue that was addressed by people long before Rogue One.

 

In both Star Wars and Return Of The Jedi the rebels find out how to destroy the Death Stars because of stolen plans. In The Force Awakens the Resistance they seem to figure it out because Finn was stationed on the Starkiller base.

 

A bit thin, but it is an explanation.

 

 

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Completely agreed!

 

It's the films biggest weakness. I don't really mind all the other callbacks to Star Wars. The desert planet etc.

But to have yet another Death Star, which is now much much bigger and called a Starkiller...

 

They could have...should have thought of something else.

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Just now, Stefancos said:

That was an issue that was addressed by people long before Rogue One.

 

In both Star Wars and Return Of The Jedi the rebels find out how to destroy the Death Stars because of stolen plans. In The Force Awakens the Resistance they seem to figure it out because Finn was stationed on the Starkiller base.

 

A bit thin, but it is an explanation.

 

 

 

 

But Finn was just the sanitation commissioner, who spent the entire years budget in one month.

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Don't forget the Death Star II from ROTJ!

 

That destruction was awesome. How they flew into the Death Star volume 2 and hit its main reactor. 

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2 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

But Finn was just the sanitation commissioner, who spent the entire years budget in one month.

 

 

That's why I say it's a bit thin. But Finn is actually encouraged by Leia to tell the resistance all he knows about the Starkiller.

That whole part of the film is quite poor anyway. Mostly it's just a few scenes of exposition to get to the next part. Very clunky.

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Just now, Stefancos said:

 

That's why I say it's a bit thin. But Finn is actually encouraged by Leia to tell the resistance all he knows about the Starkiller.

That whole part of the film is quite poor anyway. Mostly it's just a few scenes of exposition to get to the next part. Very clunky.

 

 

Agreed. And I think Rogue One makes it look worse by how sacrificial and horrendous it was to get those original plans, and to destroy the death star took a man to sacrifice his entire life for 15 years in order to plant the trap in the design, but Force Awakens just says "nah screw that shit, just shoot at it and it'll blow up."

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It was pretty weak anyway. And I don't value Rogue One enough as a movie to make it any weaker.

 

Also, as these new films keep coming, there are going to be more instances where stuff in the new films undermine parts of the older ones. Even if they don't actually contradict events. That's almost unavoidable.

 

When JJ was making TFA, he was interested in making that film as good as he could make it under the circumstances. So Rogue One wasnt really on his mind. Same for Gareth Edwards. As a film maker you concern yourself first of all with the project you are working on yourself.

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Yeah, like I personally think the Han Solo film is a terrible idea, and not doing a Kenobi film instead, is a mistake. Alec was a small enough role, that casting a young Obi Wan worked, and I bloody love Ewan. But Solo is so iconic and in 4 films as a major part, that casting him young is stupid and will cheapen him as a character. But I always reserve proper judgement until I see it. I hope I'm very wrong.

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I can see some potential in doing an Obi-Wan film. Even though again it's very limiting since there's almost no wiggle room in where the character can end up.

A Han Solo movie seems completely pointless. I love the character but actually have no interest in his history. It's not really what he was ever about.

 

Also, no Harrison Ford (though I did really like the actor they cast in Hail Caesar). Really the only thing the project has going for it is Kasdan.

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I agree with you, but of course its possible that Ewan McGregor doesn't really want to play Obi-Wan again no matter how much money is thrown at him.

 

Hasnt Ewan stated in interviews that he's open to the idea.

He did do some voice work for TFA meaning he hasnt completely lost interest. Considering he was rather frustrated by his experience on the Prequels. but is still a massive Star Wars fan I would imagine he would not mind another shot at it.

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One little nitpick I have about this film that bugs me a bit more than it should is how it seems to show the Rebellion being quite a bit better off than in A New Hope. In A New Hope, you have the striking imagery of just a couple X-Wings taking on the massive Death Star. In Rogue One, you see a ROTJ level of ships observed in the final act of Rogue One. Maybe they all retreated to Alderaan after the attack on Scarif or something. 

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I guess one could speculate a large part of the fleet was destroyed or dispersed and it wasnt until TESB that things got back together again. But yeah there a definite disparity between the film that was made 39 years ago and the one that was made this year but is supposed to be a direct prequel.

 

Again, to truly fit seamlessly a film maker working in an industry where visually everything is possible when you have the budget and time would have to restrain himself hugely to really capture the aesthetics of Star Wars. Which thanks it's sparse look partly because of 70's film making and partly because of the technical and financial limitations of the time.

I don't think any director who actually gets offered a Star Wars film is willing to subjugate themselves to that extent.

 

Even Lucas didnt seem to care about that at all when he did the Prequels.

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22 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Maul = the raw anger, the violence

Dooku = the charisma (well, Dooku wasn't particularly charismatic, but you get the idea), the "seductiveness" (Dooku trying to convince Obi-Wan to join him), plus he was a former Jedi who converted himself to the Dark Side.

Grievous = half machine/half creature + respiratory problems.

 

(Rather like that idea, by the way. Ring Theory for the win!).

 

Nice idea. I never even noticed it, because it was executed so poorly.

1 hour ago, Uni said:

Of course, that brings back up the point of her presence at the battle. Earlier in the movie, Bail Organa said (implied, rather) that he would be sending her to recruit Obi-Wan for the war. Why wasn't she off doing that, then? How did she wind up at the battle at the end? That really made no sense, and—again—it would've made much more sense (and fit better with the dialogue in ANH) if they'd transmitted the plans to her ship while it was on its way to Tatooine.

 

I imagine that with the battle being such an impromptu decision, the Tantive didn't have time to launch earlier or something.

 

Having another ship transmit the plans to her would open up even more plot holes: Why not transmit them to other ships as well? In that regard, it's a clever decision to put the transmissions on a physical medium in the finale of R1. They're literally the only copy of the plans the Rebels have, because the ship that received them was destroyed before it could broadcast them anywhere else, and the Tantive obviously didn't have much time before Vader boarded them.

 

Digital broadcasting technology is always a rather dangerous thing for film plots.

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One thing that the "new canon" has been pointing at, especially in Star Wars Rebels and Rogue One, is that a lot of weight in the Rebel Alliance should fall on the word "Alliance."  It's not a big, unified militia taking up arms against the Empire - it's an agreement between numerous small cells (such as the Lothal/Ghost crew from Rebels) to fight the Empire.  Rebels has done a good job planting the seeds of these things coming together - we've only seen two brushes with Alderaan's crew, for instance.  But we see more groups taking up the cause.  That's why we see the council in Rogue One with different planets'/groups' leaders disagreeing on how to proceed.  I haven't read any of the accompanying media to Rogue One yet, but it's possible that Mothma's rebels alienated the large dissenting group of rebels from that council scene, and they took off to go somewhere else. 

 

Since the Rebels suffered significant losses, and Star Wars takes place days or weeks later at most, I think it's also reasonable to say that lots of ships are out of commission

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28 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I can see some potential in doing an Obi-Wan film. Even though again it's very limiting since there's almost no wiggle room in where the character can end up.

A Han Solo movie seems completely pointless. I love the character but actually have no interest in his history. It's not really what he was ever about.

 

A Han Solo film doesn't seem like a necessity at all. On the other hand, ignoring the EU (which I barely know), there's very little back story to the character, so you're pretty much free to do whatever you like. I'm sure it has the potential to tell an exciting story, as long as you don't go overboard with references to the OT (which is of course a very likely danger).

 

Obi-Wan on the other hand... I'd love to see McGregor back in the role, but what would he do? Sit around in the desert for two hours? Perhaps have an argument with Owen once a year until he gives up and goes full hermit?

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17 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

One little nitpick I have about this film that bugs me a bit more than it should is how it seems to show the Rebellion being quite a bit better off than in A New Hope. In A New Hope, you have the striking imagery of just a couple X-Wings taking on the massive Death Star. In Rogue One, you see a ROTJ level of ships observed in the final act of Rogue One. Maybe they all retreated to Alderaan after the attack on Scarif or something. 

 

That's always a problem with making a big film that acts as a prequel to an older, not yet as big film, of course. The same happened (even worse) with the Hobbit films. I don't think it could have been avoided in R1, but perhaps made a little less obvious. And apparently the Rebels had quite a few of those ugly U-Wings, but every single one got destroyed at Scarif...

 

Curiously, although it's the smallest in terms of participating ships, the Yavin battle is still by far the most exciting of all the SW space battles.

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