Not documented alternates: where to find them

[Bespin 8,480]

We talked about alternate takes & cues in an other thread and I wonder if a new section on my website about those "alt" would be relevant.

 

Do we have enough to document them?

 

Do a fan here have the exact infos about them? Do we know more than these ones?

 

Do you think it would be relevant to document those alternates in one single place?

 

____

 

Alternates and where to find them

 

Star Wars (1977)

Abbreviations: OLP stands for original double album; FOXB stands for the Fox Scores/Arista 4-CD Box Set; RCA stands for the RCA Victor/BMG Classics "Special Edition" CDs.

 

1. MAIN TITLE--There are no more than five takes of the film's main title that were recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra. All five of these can be heard at the 5:00 mark of Track 13 of Disc 1 of the RCA. This is explained only in the CD's liner notes, not on the jacket of the CD package itself. Take 16 is the historic first recording of the "Star Wars Theme". The wind section was toned down for Take 17, and portions of the last three takes (18, 19, and 20) made up what would become the final film version of the cue. However, only two of these takes were used for the FOXB. Disc 1, Track 2 used Take 19, while Disc 4, Track 2 used Take 20. Take 20 was also used for the radio adaptation of Star Wars. For the original 24-page read along book and record (released by Buena Vista Records in 1977), the second reprise of "Luke's Theme" with added brass in Take 18 was utilized after the narrator says "Let's Begin Now". You could count the 45 rpm single version of the theme as a sixth variant since it was edited to over 3 minutes. But please don't count Meco's more successful disco version as a seventh variant since it was entirely rerecorded.

 

2. IMPERIAL ATTACK--As presented on Disc 1, Track 3 of the FOXB, some of the accentuation of the beats in the opening section are markedly different than the final film version.

 

3. BINARY SUNSET--This second portion of what is commonly titled "The Princess Appears" has somewhat of a history. Originally, John Williams based this cue on "Luke's Theme". For the final film version, it was based on "Ben's Theme", but in this original recorded version found on Disc 1, Track 13 of the RCA, you can hear how Williams avoided using thematic material for something entirely original...and unusual, that is if all you've been used to hearing is the film version cue. The final chord of this is about the same as in the final film version.

 

4. RESCUE OF THE PRINCESS (section 1) (aka "Shootout In The Cell Bay")--Presented on Disc 1, first part of Track 11 on the FOXB, you can tell this is an alternate cue by listening closely to the end section, especially the final crashing of cymbals and timpani (underscoring the Rebels jumping into the trash compactor).

 

5. END TITLE-- Found on the FOXB as the second part of Disc 1, Track 2, and again on Track 16 of the same disc. Here, you can clearly hear the horn section out of tune (sounding a lot like a high school marching band) when it starts to play "Luke's Theme".

 

Source: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Original-Triogy-Soundtrack-4-CD-set/id/9971

 

 

The Empire Strikes Back (1980)

 

1. THE IMPERIAL PROBE (Side 1, second part of Track 1, OLP; Disc 2, second part of Track 2, FOXB; Disc 1, second part of Track 2, RCA)--This is the original recorded version of the music following the opening prologue scroll where remote probes are launched into space and one of them lands on Hoth. The opening is about the same as the final film version (with the hidden introduction of Vader's march), but here this particular cue is more dramatic than its film counterpart. A 12-second segment (from 2:30 to 2:42 on the RCA) was left out of the OLP and FOXB. From the end of this segment, we go to "The Ice Planet Hoth" (see #4 above) and join Luke on his Tauntaun. The OLP edition was the second section of the track "Main Title (Star Wars)", while the FOXB was the second section of "The Imperial Probe (extended version)", and the RCA was the first section of "The Ice Planet Hoth".

 

2. LUKE'S NOCTURNAL VISITOR (remains unreleased)--This is a slight variation on the final film version of this track, especially the end section of this. This alternate version was never used in the film, obviously, but when you listen to the one in the actual film you'll get an idea on the slow tempo the end section might have been had it been used.

 

3. CARBON FREEZE (Disc 2, portion of first part of Track 9, RCA)--Original version of a 40-second segment covering a section from where Han's carbon frozen effigy is being lifted from the chamber up through an Imperial officer signaling Luke's arrival. This passage is a more dark-sounding piece than the one heard in the final film. While the RCA presents both 40-second segments, this particular piece can be found on the section from 2:40 to 3:21 on Track 9.

 

4. THE REBEL FLEET (Side 4, Track 4, OLP; Disc 2, first part of Track 12, RCA)--This is the original recorded version of the epilogue music that leads to the end credits. The very opening is different (with some strings not clearly present in the final film version), and it has been extended a bit both in length and composition. While the FOXB presents the version as heard in the original release print, this alternate cue as heard on the OLP and RCA can be heard in the "special edition" film re-release (albeit in edited form).

 

5. END CREDITS (Side 4, second part of Track 4, OLP; Disc 2, second part of Track 19, FOXB; Disc 2, second part of Track 12, RCA)--As far as tempo goes, this version of the end credits is a wee bit slower than the one in the film (you'll notice the difference when you listen to the film version), but it still harkens on the same themes ("Luke's Theme", "Yoda's Theme", "The Imperial March", "Han and Leia", "Rebel Fanfare"). On the OLP (which was part of the "Finale" cue), "The Imperial March" section has been tracked with a portion of the concert arrangement version (which we'll talk about in a moment), while Disc 2 of the FOXB and RCA presents this as originally recorded.

 

Source: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Original-Triogy-Soundtrack-4-CD-set/id/9971

 

 

Return of the Jedi (1983)

 

1. LAPTI NEK (film version--Instrumental) (remains unreleased)--This is also the film version of the tune heard at Jabba's palace, only without vocals. In a sense, this remains unreleased, but in another sense, it's not. This version was used in the radio adaptation of Jedi (which is itself available on CD).

 

2. LAPTI NEK (album version) (Side 1, Track 6, OLP; Disc 4, Track 11, FOXB)--Yet another alternate version of the Jabba party tune. Entirely re-orchestrated with different Huttese vocals, and the London Symphony Orchestra is used for back-up. This was even released as a music video (as found on the LaserDisc box set, The Star Wars Trilogy: The Definitive Collection). The music video would make it's way onto VH1's "Hollywood & Vinyl" TV show, where it was presented as part of a preview for the blockbuster film soundtracks of 1998.

 

3. LAPTI NEK (English version) (remains unreleased)--Here is a fourth version of the Jabba party tune, this time done in the English language! The Huttese title translates to "Fancy Man". It too is unreleased, but it was heard in the PBS documentary From Star Wars To Jedi: The Making Of A Saga.

 

4. HAN SOLO RETURNS (Alternate version #2) (Disc 1, Track 5, RCA)--Another version of the scene for when Han Solo is released from his carbonite prison. The beginning is the same right up until Jabba appears. The Jabba theme section is different from its original counterpart. This version was used for the radio adaptation of Jedi.

 

5. HAN SOLO RETURNS (film version) (on the RCA)--Sections of the actual film version of the cue have been scattered on the RCA's Disc 1. The film version starts out the same as its two counterparts until Bousch reveals its mask. The section from where Leia is revealed until the curtain is open to reveal Jabba can be found at the 8:40 to 9:01 mark of the RCA's Track 11 ("Land Of The Ewoks"). The end section (where Han and Leia are led away by Jabba's goons) can be found at the 1:27 to 2:05 mark of the RCA's Track 6 ("Luke Confronts Jabba"). This will lead to tracked music from the tail ends of "Final Duel" and "Fight In The Dungeon".

 

6. THE RETURN OF THE JEDI (film version) (Side 2, Track 5, OLP; Side 1, Track 5, RCAG; Disc 3, Track 5, FOXB; Disc 1, second part of Track 7, RCA)--The version of the Sail Barge battle cue as heard in the film forsakes originality (as in the first recorded version) and uses some of the trilogy's major themes ("Luke's Theme", "Rebel Fanfare", "Ben's Death", "TIE Fighter Attack", "X Wings Draw Fire") as its basis. The beginning, middle, and end sections are essentially the same. The RCA was re-titled "Sail Barge Assault".

 

7. THE EMPEROR ARRIVES (first section, film version) (Disc 2, first part of Track 6, RCA)--This is an edited version of the cue's opening section as actually heard in the film. This is the part that was re-scored when the Emperor's shuttle arrives at the Death Star. This can be heard at the 0:00 to :46 mark of the RCA's Disc 2, Track 6 ("The Lightsaber").

 

8. THE EWOK BATTLE (six-second bridge) (remains unreleased)--This passage can be heard in the actual film just as the first AT-AT explodes and the Ewoks cheer for joy. This has never been released in any format.

 

9. DARTH VADER'S DEATH (introduction-section 1, film version) (Side 2, first part of Track 5, VAR; Disc 3, first part of Track 16, FOXB; Disc 2, second part of Track 8, RCA)--Re-recorded 15-second introduction to the cue for the title scene as it was actually heard in the film. The VAR rendition runs a bit slower in pace (I prefer the one in the film).

 

10 LEIA BREAKS THE NEWS (alternate) (Disc 4, first part of Track 20, FOXB)--Re-recording of the cue (ultimately never used in the film) where Leia and Han resolve their relationship while revealing Luke's relationship to Leia. Generally the same arrangement right up until Han and Leia start to kiss. Then we get a fast version of the "Han and Leia" theme, followed by a reprise of the Ewok parade. The final chord though, is along the same lines as its actual film counterpart.

 

11. FUNERAL PYRE FOR A JEDI (film version) (Disc 4, second part of Track 20, FOXB; Disc 2, third part of Track 9, RCA)--The scene where Luke cremates his father, Darth Vader, was re-scored for the final film. This is a more softer variation on "Ben's Theme" rather than the more majestic one heard in the original recorded cue. On the RCA, for some strange reason, this was coupled with the original version and re-titled "Light Of The Force".

 

12. EWOK CELEBRATION (alternate film version mix) (remains unavailable)--This is the same film version of the climactic celebration scene, only without orchestration. This version was used in the Jedi radio adaptation, which is itself available on CD.

 

13. EWOK CELEBRATION (album version) (Side 2, first part of Track 6, OLP; Disc 3, first part of Track 19, FOXB)--Different mix of the celebratory music from the end of the film, with the Ewoks' voices more present than the straightforward chorus heard in the actual film, but the ending is basically the same (Ewok lyrics crossfading into English lyrics).

 

Source: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Original-Triogy-Soundtrack-4-CD-set/id/9971

 

 

Jurassic Park (1993)

 

1. INCIDENT AT ISLA NUBAR (Jurassic Park: 20th Anniversary, Track 3 [2013, Geffen Records])--A different take has been used for replacing the very end "The Falling Car" cue (at the end of "Incident At Isla Nublar" in this release) to correct a loud stage noise.

 

 

[Jay 37,346]

Most of the time, the different take of music grabbed is so minutely different, its barely even noticeable that it's different at all.

 

Anyways, the Didier Deutsch Hook expansion is full of wrong takes

[Bespin 8,480]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

(...) the Didier Deutsch Hook expansion is full of wrong takes

 

You talk about the 2012 LLL Expanded set?

 

Are these wrong takes documented somewhere?

 

What I look for this "hypothetical" new section on my website is the name of the tracks and the CD where to find them.

 

Same for the Anthology 1993 SW Boxset, do we have the name of each tracks that contains alt takes? I know Throne Room is one of them, but it's the only one I know.

[Jay 37,346]

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

You talk about the 2012 LLL Expanded set?

 

Yes.

 

Quote

Are these wrong takes documented somewhere?

 

I have no idea.

 

[Bespin 8,480]

I've updated the first post... it's beginning to take form...

 

Please feel free to comment and add your findings!

 

 

[Incanus 5,714]

4 hours ago, Bespin said:

Abbreviations: OLP stands for original double album; FOXB stands for the Fox Scores/Arista 4-CD Box Set; RCA stands for the RCA Victor/BMG Classics "Special Edition" CDs.

The ridiculous abbreviations! See you're playing it us Bespin! You're doing it!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

What about the cymbal crash on the film version of THE TOWERING INFERNO?

Is that dubbed-on, or was it an alternate take?

[Bespin 8,480]

All this thing is very interesting, but after thinking of it... I don't think I will go further with this.

 

Normally, I always create an "alternate section" for the Rock & pop singer for which I document a discography... but in this case... I didn't realized than an "alternate cue" can't only be different from it's first Album or Single release... but also compared to the movie.

 

Far too complex for me!

We have to chose our battles!

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thats is why your database will always be incomplete!

[Bespin 8,480]

12 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Thats is why your database will always be incomplete!

 

Whatever you think about my actual website... I think I did a good job... a tremendous good job.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I should check your website one day.

[Datameister 2,041]

It seems like we're conflating two unrelated types of "alternates" - alternate takes and alternate cues. A cue is a single composition for a film. Usually, multiple takes are recorded for each cue. Sometimes these are practically indistinguishable, while others may have minor performance differences, and still others may have actual changes (like the removal of a measure or an instrument). Most alternate takes are never heard by us, the general public. 

 

What we're somewhat more likely to hear are alternate or revised cues, which are new compositions written to partially or completely replace other versions. They're often very different from these versions. Sometimes multiple versions surface via legitimate or illegitimate means. 

 

To me, alternate takes and revised cues are completely unrelated, so I don't see the purpose of listing both together. But your mileage may vary!

[Jay 37,346]

Well said, Data!  Especially your last paragraph.

[Bespin 8,480]

I wrote earlier that I finally shall make nothing on my website regarding those "alt". Too complex for the time I have to put on this!

 

So it's going to stay like it is today... a real mess... little bit of info here and there on several web pages...

 

But of course, this thread can still be usefull.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

2 hours ago, Datameister said:

To me, alternate takes and revised cues are completely unrelated, so I don't see the purpose of listing both together. But your mileage may vary!

Fully agreed! Personally, I really don't care much at all about "different takes of the came cue".

If the differences are barely audible, then what difference does it make to any listening experience?

Might be interesting to story for those music experts around, but I'm afraid I'm not one of them...

 

Notably different and revised cues, on the other hand, are MASSIVELY interesting to me!

So if there's any chance of it, I'd really appreciate a list of the actual alternate tracks.

[RICHARDSTRAUSS68 107]

A long time ago I found alternates claiming to be from ET, one being Far from home but the last half when ET is being chased it is entitled abandoned and pursued (ALTERNATE) another is the track toys as well as ET's halloween, searching for ET saying goodbye (part of escape-chase-saying goodbye) another alternate but it is the full 15 minute version. I hadn't heard any of the before. I would love to discover stuff about them. So anyone with info please let me know.