The Psycho Pianist 216 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 No, this isn't clickbait. Seriously a concert I went to last night. But it got me thinking. Who'd win if it were a boxing match? I'm thinking Zimmer would throw the first punch, then abruptly turn around and step out of the ring, whilst a posse of leaner, meaner guys take to the fore to close in on Williams. But then JW would, in Dumbledore-esque fashion, produce some astounding counter-attack using a combination of only his trusted black turtleneck and baton. Apologies if this is TOO light-hearted by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,612 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 John Williams (1943-)? I wish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Both masters of the craft. What a joy it is to be able to enjoy them equally! Thor and Score_Fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,788 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 John Williams knows more about music. Hans Zimmer knows more about computers? That's pretty much how Zimmer said it in some random interview years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 759 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Great program. Whoever made the selections, certainly got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: Both masters of the craft. What a joy it is to be able to enjoy them equally! But you prefer Zimmer, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,292 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: Both masters of the craft. What a joy it is to be able to enjoy them equally! 4 minutes ago, Sandor said: Great program. Whoever made the selections, certainly got it right. Meh. They're both the usual overplayed hits. Could have picked more interesting choices on both parts. Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 31 minutes ago, Stefancos said: But you prefer Zimmer, right? I prefer Jerry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Good man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,396 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I do enjoy the music of both Hans Zimmer and John Williams, but certainly not equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,640 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Certainly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 759 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: But you prefer Zimmer, right? Not in a million years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Well, he is a more versatile composer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,292 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 More versatile than the LSO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 759 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, KK said: Meh. They're both the usual overplayed hits. Could have picked more interesting choices on both parts. For us: yes. But these concerts tend to draw audiences greater than just the die-hard film music fans. For many it might have been their first ever film music concert, heck; perhaps even the first time to see an orchestra perform live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 minute ago, KK said: More versatile than the LSO? Definitely! 2 minutes ago, Sandor said: For many it might have been their first ever film music concert, heck; perhaps even the first time to see an orchestra perform live. Or even a synth performed live, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,396 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Well, he is a more versatile composer... No he isn't. A more versatile producer? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 That I can agree with. Purely as a composer I wouldn't say Zimmer is all that versatile. 2 hours ago, Sandor said: For us: yes. But these concerts tend to draw audiences greater than just the die-hard film music fans. For many it might have been their first ever film music concert, heck; perhaps even the first time to see an orchestra perform live. Very true. If they organized concerts with a program only designed to please die-hard soundtrack fans ticket sales would be non-existstant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,678 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 So who did win? With the concert program...it's clear Must have been a relief to hear the superman march after the man of steel drone suite.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Psycho Pianist 216 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: So who did win? With the concert program...it's clear Must have been a relief to hear the superman march after the man of steel drone suite.... Oh, Williams won by a mile. Of course aided by the fact that almost all of the HZ arrangements were lacking the power of the original versions (brass in particular), whereas the Williams pieces are exquisitely orchestrated and were designed from the ground up for that ensemble. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yes. Zimmer's music doesn't always come out well translated to a standard orchestra performance. He doesn't often write like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 35,290 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Why did the writer of the program say John Williams' birth year was 1943 instead of 1932? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 It's a Zimmer concert! The kids aren't interested in an 84 year old guy! Nemesis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I don't think you can separate "producing" from "composing" anymore, especially in film music. When you just look at the overall aesthetic flexibility of both composers, of the diversity of the types of ensembles and harmonic languages and overall styles used, one of them definitely does have a more varied, versatile, output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 35,290 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: I don't think you can separate "producing" from "composing" anymore, especially in film music. Ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 John Williams can compose a brilliant score using just a piano, pencil and paper. Zimmer needs a whole host of technology to do the same. It's completely clear who's the better composer, and its not even a case of apples versus oranges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 How is that ridiculous, Jay? The ubiquity of technology has made it necessary for any composer to also have some measure of facility with the various aspects of music production as well. Some have equal facility with both. Some utilize those things as a part of their fundamental creative process, as popular music people have been doing for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 35,290 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Composing is composing, producing is producing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 John Williams has people working for him who deal with these technical issues. Zimmer sometimes has people who help him out with the actual composition. Huge difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Ok. Let it never be speculated on why I don't really post seriously anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 6,777 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 15 hours ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: Both masters of the craft. What a joy it is to be able to enjoy them equally! You said it. Totally agreed. Wish the Zimmer part was heavier on the 90s and 80s stuff, but other than that -- looks like a great concert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Psycho Pianist 216 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 40 minutes ago, Thor said: You said it. Totally agreed. Wish the Zimmer part was heavier on the 90s and 80s stuff, but other than that -- looks like a great concert! Yes, would love to have heard the likes of Crimson Tide (with synth drums overdubbed) or Driving Miss Daisy. Guess people just don't know those as well. The Batman Begins suite was nice although I'm pretty sure the melodic parts are JNH-written. On Williams, the only thing I would change is Throne Room. If only they could've scheduled in Princess Leia's theme at the last minute as a tribute (although Pete Harrison the conductor did dedicate Throne Room to Carrie Fisher). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 218 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Stefancos said: Yes. Zimmer's music doesn't always come out well translated to a standard orchestra performance. He doesn't often write like that. And the weird thing about that is that often the ones most frequently dismissed as produced by Zimmer sound infinitely better with a live orchestra. Dead Man's Chest live to projection was one of the best concerts I've ever attended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,225 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Zimmer finishes the first half with Man of Steel. JW finishes the concert with Star Wars. It's really not a fair battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,203 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 15 hours ago, BloodBoal said: Well, he is a more versatile composer... 8 hours ago, Prerecorded Briefing said: When you just look at the overall aesthetic flexibility of both composers, of the diversity of the types of ensembles and harmonic languages and overall styles used, one of them definitely does have a more varied, versatile, output. Yes in your minds. Versatility is not if you use some different computer program of different ensemble. It is there in the composition. But of course you cannot hear the difference. 16 hours ago, Quintus said: I do enjoy the music of both Hans Zimmer and John Williams Yes 11% of hansu and 94% of Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 35,290 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 On 12/28/2016 at 10:46 AM, Prerecorded Briefing said: I don't think you can separate "producing" from "composing" anymore, especially in film music. On 12/28/2016 at 10:47 AM, Jay said: Ridiculous! On 12/28/2016 at 10:51 AM, Prerecorded Briefing said: How is that ridiculous, Jay? The ubiquity of technology has made it necessary for any composer to also have some measure of facility with the various aspects of music production as well. Some have equal facility with both. Some utilize those things as a part of their fundamental creative process, as popular music people have been doing for decades. On 12/28/2016 at 10:52 AM, Jay said: Composing is composing, producing is producing! On 12/28/2016 at 10:53 AM, Prerecorded Briefing said: Ok. Let it never be speculated on why I don't really post seriously anymore. While there are many composers who will get involved in aspects of the music production, and some music producers who will have to do some composing, I don't think its fair to say that they can no longer be separated, that's a Huuuuuuuuuge stretch. Some, there are some guys who can do both very well, of course. But there will always be a need to specialists in each, who leave the duties of the other to specialists in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,139 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Zimmer Vs Williams? Zimmer Vs John Williams? Zimmer Vs John Fucking Williams???!!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Oh get real. Thanks for the further response there, Jason. I do still disagree though - the lines have become incredibly blurred as more and more composition happens in the box. It's now the exception to find anyone who isn't constantly doing both and being informed in one by what they do in the other. Of course, Zimmer still hands things off to Meyerson, however good he is on his own. But so much more production happens these days in the composer's own hands than used to be the case, that I think we have to acknowledge its being as important a part of the process as coming up with the notes themselves. So Quint's statement, which was all I was responding to in the first place, is somewhat askew to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 The working practice has changed. That hardly means that Zimmer is equal to Williams. Like I said. Williams can write an entire score, or concert work using just a piano, pencil and paper. He needs to imagine what every single instrument will sound like while writing in his office or at home. Everything playing in his head. And not untill he stands in front of the orchestra does he hear the real thing. Modern composers use all kinds of samplers, sequencers, software to basically do much of the work for them. They don't need to imagine what it will sound like. They can click a few buttons and hear a close enough approximation than and there. They don't need to anticipate in the way John Williams or other composers who still do it old school do. You can't tell me that thats little more that a semantic difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Stefan, we've all been over this so, so many times. How many different ways can I say that you're wrong? I just don't care anymore. It's a truly shit card to play, I know, but: until you do it, don't assume you understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I think we've been over it twice, and twice you've pooh poohed me rather than actually answering my question. Possibly because you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 For the sake of anyone actually looking to be informed on the subject, let's cut the BS and acknowledge that it has been discusse many times on here, that the same detailed cases are made every time by all involved, and that one must draw one's own conclusions on what is right (hint: however you best create music is what's right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Interesting how you blast Jason for not going into detail answering your question, yet you are doing the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 It's not interesting at all. We've been over it. MY various answers can be found easily. Come on Stefan, it's not that hard to spot when you're being a pain just for its own sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,262 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Actually no. What I wrote is how I genuinely feel about it. And I've yet to be given a compelling argument against it. But if you claim you have attempted several times I won't press the issue. Like Gia on Rogue One, the result isn't satisfying, but you cant blame the effort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 As much as I respect Zimmer for what Zimmer does, the comparison between him and Williams is akin to comparing Paul McCartney to Mozart. Put very simply, Williams represents an entirely different culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Plus, McCartney is more versatile than Mozart was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Yes. There's that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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