Villeneuve's DUNE

[badbu 123]

japanese trailer with a lot of new footage

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Looks VERY cool. Best trailer for this film yet.

 

I really want Dune to succeed, not just because it's Dune, but because I want big, epic, intelligent science fiction to have a place in cinema.  And even though Dune is an established franchise (or at least the start of one), it's nice to have something this big on the screen that's not Marvel or Star Wars.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I want big, epic, intelligent science fiction to have a place in cinema.

Well said. I also want the second film to be shot at all.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

There's been some speculation whether they'd use the term "crusade" (which like jihad is regarded as controversial today) and this trailer seems to answer that question. Given how crucial this concept is in the book, especially considering what's to come, you almost can't get around using it.

[Romão 2,274]

I've read the word Jihad is also used in the film. The book did use both "crusade" and "jihad", although the latter was more frequent

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Yeah, if they're going to use both crusade and jihad, it tells me they're taking the source material seriously, even if they catch a little blowback for it. As you say, jihad is used even more and is all the more controversial.

[Chen G. 3,944]

4 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I really want Dune to succeed, not just because it's Dune, but because I want big, epic, intelligent science fiction to have a place in cinema.  And even though Dune is an established franchise (or at least the start of one), it's nice to have something this big on the screen that's not Marvel or Star Wars.

 

Basically the same.

 

It'll be good for the major franchises to have a new kid around the block challenging them and perhaps even forcing them to up their game.

 

I'll have to get used to the use of the word "Jihad" though. Not because of its implications but just - to you lot its a term with certain associations; to me its...just a word. Kinda weird, but I'll get over it.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

54 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I'll have to get used to the use of the word "Jihad" though. Not because of its implications but just - to you lot its a term with certain associations; to me its...just a word. Kinda weird, but I'll get over it.

 

Dune is every bit as infused with Middle Eastern history, language and culture as Lord of the Rings is with Scandinavian. And that might even be understating it a bit. Lynch (wisely, IMO), didn't lean into this in his film, and I'd be surprised if Villenueve did either. 

 

But it's there, it's intentional, and apparent to anyone who wants to look for it. And given that Dune is about to blast into the pop culture consciousness in a way that it never has before, I'd expect to see renewed interest and, er, "debates" over this topic in the Twitter/Reddit sphere.

[A24 4,327]

My take is, if you love his previous movies and regard him to be one of the best contemporary directors, you'll love Dune too.

[Chen G. 3,944]

21 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Dune is every bit as infused with Middle Eastern history, language and culture as Lord of the Rings is with Scandinavian. And that might even be understating it a bit. Lynch (wisely, IMO), didn't lean into this in his film, and I'd be surprised if Villenueve did either. 

 

But it's there, it's intentional, and apparent to anyone who wants to look for it.

 

Yeah but, for instance, while Tolkien constructed Khuzdul (and Adunaic) on Semitic languages and that is readily appearant to a native speaker such as yours truly, never in reading/listening do I ever actually recognise wrods: its just a similar phoetic structure. Very familiar, but still alien, which works for these imaginary worlds.

 

What little I know of Dune's terminology is that its straight-up Arabic and Hebrew words. As someone who knows both languages it'll probably take a few minutes to adjust, is all I'm saying.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

 

6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yeah but, for instance, while Tolkien constructed Khuzdul (and Adunaic) on Semitic languages and that is readily appearant to a native speaker such as yours truly, never in reading/listening do I ever actually recognise wrods: its just a similar phoetic structure. Very familiar, but still alien, which works for these imaginary worlds.

 

What little I know of Dune's terminology is that its straight-up Arabic and Hebrew words. As someone who knows both languages it'll take a few moments to adjust.

 

Well, yes. That's my point. You've precisely pointed out the difference between what Tolkien did and what Herbert did. Hence my "if anything, that's an understatement."

 

And I agree with you that Tolkien did it the way it should be done.

 

[Chen G. 3,944]

Well, he was a linguist by profession, so its something he will have inevitably known how to do better...

[Romão 2,274]

31 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

What little I know of Dune's terminology is that its straight-up Arabic and Hebrew words. As someone who knows both languages it'll probably take a few minutes to adjust, is all I'm saying.

 

Although I think the majority is indeed Arabic influenced, I think there's also quite a bit based on Farsi, dialects from the Caucasus (Chakobsa), Balkans, Scadinavia, etc. Obviously Tolkien's interests were much more focused on linguistics than Herbert's. But I don't think the ethnographic and religious influence is as strong

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

39 minutes ago, AC1 said:

My take is, if you love his previous movies and regard him to be one of the best contemporary directors

 

Do you?

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 minute ago, Romão said:

Although I think the majority is indeed Arabic influenced, I think there's also quite a bit based on Farsi

 

I know that language too, so equally distracting...

[Romão 2,274]

Speakers for the Dead by Orson Scott Card had a bunch of Portuguese words thrown in there. I thought that was awesome when I read it years ago

[A24 4,327]

37 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Do you?

 

No, I don't. That's why I don't have my hopes up high. But many others deeply connect to his style of moviemaking and it's mainly those people who I think are going to love Dune. For those who are not particularly a fan of Villeneuve Dune is not going to change much.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

11 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Well, he was a linguist by profession...

He always was a cunning linguist.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

3 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Well, yes. That's my point. You've precisely pointed out the difference between what Tolkien did and what Herbert did. Hence my "if anything, that's an understatement."

 

And I agree with you that Tolkien did it the way it should be done.

 

But Tolkien set his stories in a fictitious historical past of our world, so of course he couldn't plausibly draw on modern stuff - he still did use plenty of existing languages in his "translations" of Westron names and Old English (which has some words that are still in use in modern German) for the Rohirrim. Herbert's story is set in the distant future, so arguably traces of our current world could have been preserved in his names.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

arguably traces of our current world could have been preserved in his names

 

But its not traces: its complete words and phrases, verbatim.

[Faleel 5,342]

The traces are just bigger

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

On 24/8/2021 at 12:57 PM, AC1 said:

 

No, I don't. That's why I don't have my hopes up high. But many others deeply connect to his style of moviemaking and it's mainly those people who I think are going to love Dune. For those who are not particularly a fan of Villeneuve Dune is not going to change much.

 

I still think Villeneuve's the best director for Dune (is there a director more suited to the material?). I honestly believe he has the right sensibilities for it. But for Dune to be the masterpiece we want it to be, it's going to have to be Villeneuve's best film.

 

[Chen G. 3,944]

Same.

 

One hardly needs to worship at Villenueve's altar to think he's talented and and well-equipped to take this on.

[A24 4,327]

45 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

One hardly needs to worship at Villenueve's altar to think he's talented and and well-equipped to take this on.

 

That's what they said about BR 2049 and that movie doesn't do anything for me, hence my scepticism towards Dune. I expect another Arrival, another BR 2049. Yes, decently made, but rarely enticing.

 

Then again, if you are off the trail like Stefancos and you think BR 2049 is much better than BR 2019, then I understand one could be pumped for this. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

29 minutes ago, AC1 said:

BR 2019

 

I haven't seen this movie. Is it from the same people who brought us A New Hope and Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark?

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

17 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

He always was a cunning linguist.

 

Indeed. A master of many tongues.

[Romão 2,274]

Before this project was announced, I had three dream choices for directing Dune: Peter Weir, Ang Lee and Denis Villeneuve. So I was ecstatic when he was announced. His whole filmography seems to be building up to this

 

But I can also imagine how exciting it must've been in the 80's to learn that Lynch would be be directing Dune

[Mephariel 451]

19 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

I have mixed feelings about this.  Arrival was a film I really wanted to like more than I did. I like its ambition and minimalist ascetic, and admire what Villeneuve set out to do. But the truth is, I was bored in parts of, and while I was watching the film I found myself wishing I was enjoying it more than I did. The whole thing left me a little cold and annoyingly unsatisfied.

 

2049 I enjoyed more, I thought it was about as good a sequel to a movie that didn't need a sequel as you could make. It's good, not great, but there's still a lot to like about it (having Roger Deakins as your cinematographer helps). I came away thinking, this guy could direct Dune. 

 

And I still think Villeneuve's the best director for Dune (is there a director more suited to the material?). I honestly believe he has the right sensibilities for it. But for Dune to be the masterpiece we want it to be, it's going to have to be Villeneuve's best film.

 

 

Denis Villeneuve certainly isn't shy saying it is:

 

"Dune is by far the best movie I’ve ever made. My team and I devoted more than three years of our lives to make it a unique big screen experience. Our movie’s image and sound were meticulously designed to be seen in theaters."

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

How does one "see sound"?

Empty words. The public will judge, in a few weeks.

[Chen G. 3,944]

9 hours ago, Romão said:

But I can also imagine how exciting it must've been in the 80's to learn that Lynch would be be directing Dune

 

I'm always surprised Lynch directed Dune, not to mention was offered to direct Revenge of the Jedi. Looking back on his entire ouvre, he really doesn't seem to have the capacity to direct a big spectacle in him. Its just not his "thing."

[A24 4,327]

You're late to the party, Chen. No one was more surprised than David Lynch himself, but somehow de Laurentiss managed to convince him. 

[Chen G. 3,944]

I'm just surprised people sought him out for those kinds of projects.

 

Maybe its a case of retrospect, but looking at Lynch's entire filmography, he just doesn't have a big blockbuster in him.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

While I agree Star Wars or Dune are definitely not the type of projects you'd normally associate Lynch with, I can still see why Lucas and de Laurentis wanted him. It's the same reason Marvel has had quite a big success picking directors who have no previous blockbuster experience...they're good directors and people making the decisions see something in them. What in Irvin Kirshners experience says he was right for The Empire Strikes Back? While deeply flawed, Lynch's vision for Dune was striking and unique. There's a reason it's become a bit of a cult classic.

 

When it came out that Peter Jackson was directing LOTR, a huge segment of the fan community was shocked, given that he was generally associated with mostly low budget horror films (Heavenly Creatures not withstanding). There wasn't a lot in his resume that would indicate he was capable of pulling off something on the scale of LOTR (though no doubt today, with the benefit of hindsight, countless film "experts" will tell how they saw Jackson was right for it all along). But Harvey Weinstein and then Bob Shaye saw something in him a lot of other people didn't, took a chance and the rest is history.

 

I mean, what in Man Without a Face tells us that Mel Gibson was suited for a project like Braveheart? Make no mistake, Gibson was only able to make that film because he's Mel Gibson. Or, as Harrison Ford would say, he used to be.

[A24 4,327]

20 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

... he just doesn't have a big blockbuster in him.

 

What a loser!

[Chen G. 3,944]

Sure. Like I said, in the case of Lynch its easier for us to look in hindsight because we've seen his entire ouvre. Producers in 1980 only had The Elephant Man to go on.

 

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I mean, what in Man Without a Face tells us that Mel Gibson was suited for a project like Braveheart? Make no mistake, Gibson was only able to make that film because he's Mel Gibson.

 

That's truly miraculous, though. There had been many directors that had a surprising "big break" like Jackson, but usually they had at least already directed a number of feature films. That Braveheart was Gibsons' second directorial outing is downright unbelievable. With most directors who would dare to take such a big project as their sophomoric effort, it would have been a small miracle for the resulting film to just be coherent.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I'm just surprised people sought him out for those kinds of projects.

 

Maybe its a case of retrospect, but looking at Lynch's entire filmography, he just doesn't have a big blockbuster in him.

He has plenty of overrated films. He's a good actor though.

[A24 4,327]

 

48 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Producers in 1980 only had The Elephant Man to go on.

 

Producers of Alien only had The Duellists to go on. 

 

20 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

He has plenty of overrated films. 

 

But Lynch has a style, a voice.  So many movies feel like they are directed by a machinery, a system, and not by an artist with a personal vision.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'd still enjoy watching a machine driven film than ever see blue velvet again. 

[Romão 2,274]

Harkonnen Tv Spots. Piter looks great and I'm getting major Kurtz vibes from the Baron

 

 

[Jay 37,322]

Oooh, I like!

[Edmilson 7,398]

Isn't the major villain in the book a pedophile who wants to rape the underage protagonist? I remember reading this somewhere else, and I'm glad Villeneuve (probably) won't include this in his movie.

[badbu 123]

38 minutes ago, Romão said:

Harkonnen Tv Spots. Piter looks great and I'm getting major Kurtz vibes from the Baron

 

 

the cue from the Piter video is amazing!!! love the choir

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Stellan Skarsgård's performance in these trailers/clips has felt vaguely familiar to me, and I just realized from where. He gives a similar performance as Cedric, the Saxon King in King Arthur. The whisper/growl way he delivers his lines with a kind of bored contempt is exactly the same.

 

 

 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

5 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

He has plenty of overrated films. He's a good actor though.

 

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Isn't the major villain in the book a pedophile who wants to rape the underage protagonist? I remember reading this somewhere else, and I'm glad Villeneuve (probably) won't include this in his movie.

 

The book Baron has a preference for little boys. It's part of his overall depravity that's manifested and described throughout the book in various ways (including quite a lot of fat shaming). I don't recall Paul Atreides coming into his schemes that way though. He does enjoy the sight of his own young nephew.

[Romão 2,274]

11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 

The book Baron has a preference for little boys. It's part of his overall depravity that's manifested and described throughout the book (including quite a lot of fat shaming). I don't recall Paul Atreides coming into his schemes that way though. He does enjoy the sight of his own young nephew.

 

I seem to recall the Baron commenting how Paul had beautiful young body or something of the sort. But never does he express his desire to rape him

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

 He does enjoy the sight of his own young nephew.

...and when they've had enough, I'll send them you, Feyd, lovely Feyd.

 

 

1 hour ago, Romão said:

I seem to recall the Baron commenting how Paul had beautiful young body or something of the sort. But never does he express his desire to rape him

I wouldn't be surprised if he did. After all, he's his grandfather. 

[Positivatee 327]

But the Baron didn't know that until right before Alia kills him, correct? 

 

The memory that later drives her insane doesn't count. 

[badbu 123]

THAT voice!!!

 

[Jay 37,322]

Hey how about no open book spoilers in the hype thread for the movie thanks

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

That’s an interesting question. Can a remake of a very old movie be spoiled? That plot point is common to both the book and Lynch film.

 

For example, would it be ok to talk spoilers in the Spielberg West Side Story thread?