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Villeneuve's DUNE


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The first book was published in 1965. If you haven't read it by now, that's your problem. The events of the second half of the book would be captured in a screenplay yet to be written. The spoiler argument does not apply. 

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3 hours ago, Positivatee said:

The first book was published in 1965. If you haven't read it by now, that's your problem. The events of the second half of the book would be captured in a screenplay yet to be written. The spoiler argument does not apply. 

 

Except it does if the film is supposed to be one's first exposure to the story. This movie is meant to serve multiple audiences, not just fans of the book. It'd be a great waste of resources and time if this was purely for a small portion of the movie going crowd that might hate the changes anyway.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Hopefully, people will watch the film and think: "Gee, this is great. I'll buy the novel".

 

Sir David Lean once said that a succesfull film adaptation would render people incapable of getting past the first 200 pages of the source material, so...

 

Good adaptations are always made primarily for people who never have - and never will - read the source material. They're not just glorified advertisements for books.

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19 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Good adaptations are always made primarily for people who never have - and never will - read the source material. They're not just glorified advertisements for books.

 

Well, yes. No one should have to read the book to appreciate and understand the film. That goes without saying.  They're two different mediums. That doesn't mean a good adaptation can't, and even should, inspire thoughtful viewers to seek out the source material (as presumably happened with you and Lord of the Rings). 

 

Quote

Sir David Lean once said that a succesfull film adaptation would render people incapable of getting past the first 200 pages of the source material, so...

 

Lean made some of the greatest films of all time, including two of my personal top-10 favourites. But if he said this he's an idiot and probably should have read more. Just because David Lean said it doesn't make it gospel.

 

There have been lots of movies that have inspired me to read the book, and I'm glad I did.

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11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Lean made some of the greatest films of all time

 

Not only that, virtually ALL of his films are adaptations. He said that when he thinks about subjects for a film, the first thing he does is "go into book shops."

 

And yes, its not gospel but I do think its very reductive to look at a film adaptation as a glorified advertisment for the book. Lord knows people have been compelled to read books thanks to adaptations (from memory, book sales increase by %1000 percent when The Lord of the Rings trilogy was released) but I do think its an accurate statement (which is taken verbatim from Rings treatment, by the way) to say that a good adaptation is not only made for people who never have read the book, but who never will.

 

11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

as presumably happened with you and Lord of the Rings

 

I honestly can't remember which came first. For sure I had the books before I watched the film. As to whether or how much of it I read prior to that, I can't recall.

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48 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

And yes, its not gospel but I do think its very reductive to look at a film adaptation as a glorified advertisment for the book.

 

Well that's true. But I think the only people who look at books that way are publishers hoping to move novels with tie-in covers.

 

48 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

but I do think its an accurate statement... to say that a good adaptation is not only made for people who never have read the book, but who never will.

 

Well again yes, but we all agree on that.

 

But since we all also agree that literature and film are two completely different mediums, with different goals, it's a little specious to suggest (as Lean seems to do) that if you've seen the movie there's no reason to read the book. That's either suggesting that the book has nothing to offer over the film, or that the source material is poorly written.  Anyone who has read Doctor Zhivago (which I presume Lean is referring to) can tell you that neither is the case, and in fact reading it is a completely different experience, in every way vs seeing the film. One is a masterpiece of cinema, the other a masterpiece of literature.

 

Crikey even a book like The Hunger Games (where a lot of Katniss's dialogue is internal) has a lot to offer over the film.  This goes doubly for a book as dense as Dune.

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Again nobody suggested not being able to say whatever you want to say, the request was to use the spoiler-block feature when doing so.  It's easy to use.

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16 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Anyone who has read Doctor Zhivago (which I presume Lean is referring to)

 

No, he was referring to an adaptation of Nostromo that he was working on at the time and didn't finish. His point was that the movie will have streamlined the first 200 pages to the extent that audiences will then find it difficult to get through them.

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

Again nobody suggested not being able to say whatever you want to say, the request was to use the spoiler-block feature when doing so.  It's easy to use.

 

Jay I don't even think we're talking about that right now. The conversation has moved on to the value of adaptations vs. the books they're based on. Do keep up!

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32 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

No, he was referring to an adaptation of Nostromo that he was working on at the time and didn't finish. His point was that the movie will have streamlined the first 200 pages to the extent that audiences will then find it difficult to get through them.

Hee, hee. Lean and NOSTROMO? Talk about not finishing the book :lol:

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46 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

No, he was referring to an adaptation of Nostromo that he was working on at the time and didn't finish. His point was that the movie will have streamlined the first 200 pages to the extent that audiences will then find it difficult to get through them.

 

 

"If the film is a success most of those who go out and buy the book will give up long before page 200. This is exactly what happened to Seven Pillars Of Wisdom, Doctor Zhivago and, to a lesser extent, Passage To India." -Sir David Lean

 

That's all pretty interesting, given that it's Lean's films that inspired me to read all three of those books! And in the case of Zhivago, multiple times. Pretty presumptuous on his part, don't you think? Presumably Lean read these books and thought enough of them to want to adapt them. I mean, if you're going to suggest a book is superfluous to the film, at least go after easier targets than Pasternak and Forster! There's a difference between saying that you shouldn't need have read the book to appreciate a good adaptation (which, again, everyone agrees with) and saying the film makes reading the book moot.

 

I mean, do you agree with what Lean said?

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

I honestly can't remember which came first. For sure I had the books before I watched the film. As to whether or how much of it I read prior to that, I can't recall.

 

Oh OK. I thought you had mentioned once you saw the films first (not that there's anything wrong with that, lots of films have inspired me to read the books). In any event, it's interesting, as most people have pretty vivid memories of the first time they read those books. They tend to make an impression.

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2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Pretty presumptuous on his part, don't you think?

 

Lean could be a very presumptious man, after all...

 

And don't forget this is coming from the man who adapted (many would say definitively) Dickens. Virtually ALL of his filmography is made-up of adaptations.

 

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Hee, hee. Lean and NOSTROMO? Talk about not finishing the book

 

He was pushing eighty when he started working on it. I don't think anyone really expected him to actually make it: they were just humouring an old man.

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22 minutes ago, AC1 said:

No, but who knows, we might have some Russian JW fans here ...

 

 

BTW, in Germany you had to be 12. 

 

On Arrakis you have to be 1,500 to see Dune.

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5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Good adaptations are always made primarily for people who never have - and never will - read the source material. They're not just glorified advertisements for books.

 

As a fan of many books, and as someone who usually prefers to read the book first, I'm fond of films that are made (also) for fans of the books. If a film manages to satisfy those who already know the book, that's certainly a sign that it's more than an advertisement for it.

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Truth be told, Lynch's Dune was cryptic and yet enticing enough to peek behind the curtain and made me absolutely want to read the book. That desire might've not been as strong had the movie been a stronger adaptation of the novel. So I kinda get what Lean was saying, although I can really wholeheartedly agree.

 

The world the Lynch's Dune movie promised (more than it delivered) was just too fascinating

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On 8/26/2021 at 10:59 AM, JoeinAR said:

I'd still enjoy watching a machine driven film than ever see blue velvet again. 

 

I lit a candle and said a prayer for you.

 

 

 

Wait, Dennis Hopper's here... now it's dark.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, blondheim said:

 

I lit a candle and said a prayer for you.

 

 

 

Wait, Dennis Hopper's here... now it's dark.

 

 

Dennis Hopper was a terrible horrible actor.

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He was just bad.  I agree with rod serling, he takes you out of the story

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11 hours ago, blondheim said:

 

Dennis Hopper was a legend. Dennis Hopper is a legend. #NeverForget

 

Indeed. Great actor. Pretty good artist too. And with enough charisma to blow out the screen! He is missed.

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Hopper is self-aware and over-the-top. That's why he gets cast for. Nicolas Cage is also very much like that but I do think Cage is the better actor (his twin role in Adaptation is downright great). 

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This movie NEEDS good reviews if it wants to succeed at the box office. A mixed or outright terrible reaction will crush its chances to be a hit.

 

These days, if you aren't a comic book movie or Star Wars, you must get rave reviews to get people interested in paying to watch it. And, like @Chen G., sometimes not even this is enough.

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A lot of the reviews I'm seeing say the world building is great, but that Villeneuve doesn't quite nail the story.

 

I hope this isn't the case. One annoying thing you see pop up all the time in the sci-fi/fantasy genre, whether it's film or literature, is when the creator spends a lot of time world building at the expense of the story. The world building doesn't mean much if the story isn't there.

 

But It's early, and I live in hope.

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11 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

A lot of the reviews I'm seeing say the world building is great, but that Villeneuve doesn't quite nail the story.

 

Yeah, but then the term "world-building" had become amorphous to the extent that its hard to tell what people are referring to when they're talking about it.

 

Some reviews also mention that fairly light on action until a way's into the runtime, which is exactly what deterred a lot of viewers with Blade Runner 2049, I think.

 

Granted, some of my favourite movies make you wait for (and therefore prize) the action, but its a fine line to walk. We shall see.

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