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Villeneuve's DUNE


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35 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Sycophant meets the great pretender. I'll leave you to figure out which is which.

 

Haven't watched it yet, but I'm going to guess Nolan will express his admiration for Villeneuve's Dune (the movie, not this thread).

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16 minutes ago, AC1 said:

 

Haven't watched it yet, but I'm going to guess Nolan will express his admiration for Villeneuve's Dune (the movie, not this thread).

He already did:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/christopher-nolan-praises-denis-villeneuve-dune-1235036820/

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1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Sycophant meets the great pretender. I'll leave you to figure out which is which.

The only cinematic geniuses alive that have access to big blockbuster budgets.

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4 hours ago, Brónach said:

I feel like it would be cooler with the subplot about they're suspicious about Jessica being the traitor. It's give us more Thufir and Jessica and give Thufir something to do.

 

It's also the one thing that keeps the tension going throughout the entire first book (and beyond). I was surprised when they simply dropped it entirely.

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Instead of relaxing at least once  in Arrakis, since they arrive it's all "oh no" and stress (in the movie). If they wanted to do that, the spy paranoia over Jessica could have been used to enhance it.

 

It's less "how to be slavish to the book" more "how to use book tools to achieve x?". I in fact think the book should have been updated more lol

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2 hours ago, Brónach said:

Instead of relaxing at least once  in Arrakis, since they arrive it's all "oh no" and stress (in the movie). 

For Leto at least it's even worse in the novel: I believe in the few days he actually is on Arrakis he never actually sleeps, taking stimulants to stay awake. He even has to leave the banquet early.

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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Sounds like a cool subplot, but I perfectly enjoyed the movie not knowing that subplot was ever a thing, and will continue to enjoy it as it is.

It appears this movie works as is for a lot of people who haven't read the book. It's a very functional translation between mediums. No such thing as "unfilmable" it seems, the idea is just hype

1 hour ago, paleo said:

For Leto at least it's even worse in the novel: I believe in the few days he actually is on Arrakis he never actually sleeps, taking stimulants to stay awake. He even has to leave the banquet early.

Leto has heard of our lord and savior modafinil!

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I saw Denis Villeneuve at Québec's "Tout le monde en parle", last Sunday. It gave me the interest to see Dune. The guy is really inspired by the book since he's a teen. Interesting!

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Dune is said to be homophobic, author Frank Herbert having rejected his own gay son at the time. The character of the villain in Dune, the baron, is described in the book as diabolical, depraved, monstrous, grotesque and homosexual. Does Denis Villeneuve have a problem with the LGBTQ+ community?

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7 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The character of the villain in Dune, the baron, is described in the book as diabolical, depraved, monstrous, grotesque and homosexual.

 

Really? Then I'm surprised this film was greenlighted at all.

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7 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Because the 80s were totally great for the LGBT, right?

 

Some sci-fi/horror movies took the Sida crisis years as an horryfing plot/underplot for theirs movies, I recall Nightmare on Elm Streert part 2, by example.

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16 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Does Denis Villeneuve have a problem with the LGBTQ+ community?

 

I have been told that these aspects of the character has been considerably toned down for the new film. Then again, BR2049 had people make concerns over how it treated its female characters (in spite of being a generally grey setting), so I'm sure something will slip in the cracks for the internet to pick at.

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2 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

 

I have been told that these aspects of the character has been considerably toned down for the new film. Then again, BR2049 had people make concerns over how it treated its female characters (in spite of being a generally grey setting), so I'm sure something will slip in the cracks for the internet to pick at.

 

Well, that's my point... I just rewatched Blade Runner 2049.... and there's only female nudes, females prostitutes, females nude statues. So in a future, where the humans battles robots... and creates artificial life forms... there are no gays.

 

Okay...

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10 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Some sci-fi/horror movies took the Sida crisis years as an horryfing plot/underplot for theirs movies, I recall Nightmare on Elm Streert part 2, by example.

 

I thought that was supposedly unintentional? Sure, death of the author and all, but it certainly has a different effect compared to what Dune ends up alluding to.

 

7 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Well, that's my point... I just rewatched Blade Runner 2049.... and there's only female nudes, females prostitutes, females nude statues. So in a future, where the humans battles robots... there are no gays.

 

Okay...

 

That's where I want to elaborate my point more, since the BR universe is not a nice setting in general. With how blatantly objectified the women are, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there's this idea that the more marginalized have been pushed even further underground with what gets approved by society as acceptable. You don't see too many people of color, for instance. It's not a story that Scott or Villeneuve would be likely to tell, but I'm sure spin off material could elaborate on it more.

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9 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The Baron's sexuality is not mentioned at all in the movie. He's still grotesque, but he's not a gay caricature, far from it.

 

So they removed that in the new movie.

 

In the book, he's clearly a pedophile and gay... well in the 60's gays and pedophiles were associated in people's mind. Well, a thing is sure, gay people where associated with the evil...

 

In my own experience of life, I saw more straight deviant people than Gay ones. But that's another story.

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3 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Admittedly, Part 2 could possibly touch on it, but given how the first movie is, I doubt it.

 

Nightmare on Elm Street 2. The autor admitted that's the fear of "begin gay" (in the middle 80's)... that WAS REALLY "scaring" at the time.

 

It was and they used that idea in the movie.

 

It's not a good sequel to Freddy's franchise, but it's a special one...

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In the last week, having had no prior experience to Dune whatsoever, I watched David Lynch's Dune. I enjoyed it quite a bit, I didn't quite grasp 50% of what was happening and the pacing takes an absolute nose-dive in the last third, but I still felt Lynch's touch and there was some wonderfully inventive concepts and the patented twisted Lynch weirdness (I laughed so hard at the scene with the cat). Gorgeous visuals as well, the set and costume and creature design was next level, with only a few shots feeling very clearly they were done on the cheap even for the time.

Then I watched Villeneuve's the following night.

I found it incredibly meh. To the point that I don't want this to achieve enough success to set the precedence that this is what we should get more of, it contains nearly everything that un-enthuses me about modern blockbusters. I'm surprised this was a Villeneuve movie honestly, granted I've only seen Bladerunner 2049 and Arrival, but other than the strangely large and sparse rooms with fog machines I couldn't feel much of his vision at all.

So then I re-watched Lynch's Dune. I grasped about 70% of what was happening this time and it definitely contributed to my enjoyment, I had initially written off the second half entirely but this re-watch made me realize there's some really good scenes in that second half that are just missing in-between content to be really effective. My appreciation for Kyle MacLaughlan's Paul Atreides was firmly cemented, the precocious noble-like character was far more interesting of a performance than the dime-a-dozen angsty teen protagonist I found in Villeneuve's Dune. MacLaughlan was surprisingly likeable in the role for the kind of character Paul is, the gentleness he brings makes the moments that he stands up and shouts as a leader all the more powerful. Despite that, the last third I still found to be a bit of a rushed mess.

Then I watched some videos on the behind the scenes of the production, and realized why exactly this movie ended up the way it is which lead to me a surprising discovery - an extended cut was made. However, it was rather haphazardly thrown together for TV, with the additional content not bothering to rotoscope the 'spice eyes'. That's when I heard of 'Dune Alternate Edition Redux', a 2 hours and 57 minutes fan cut that incorporates extended edition and deleted scenes footage, with re-editing, billed as the closest thing to Lynch's original vision as we'll ever get.

And my god, it was magnificent. Now I grasped 95% of what was happening. It completely transformed the movie and utterly fixed the pacing of the second half. Some of those extra scenes were amazing, and I got to see versions of some of scenes that were in Villeneuve's Dune but not the original cut of Dune 1984. I can now say I do not prefer a single thing about Villeneuve's Dune compared to Lynch's.

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9 hours ago, Bespin said:

... there are no gays.

 

Okay...

 

Because gays usually have a high income, they could afford to go to the Off-world colonies. ;)

 

 

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1 minute ago, AC1 said:

 

Because gays usually have a high income, they could afford to go to the Off-world colonies. ;)

 

:huh:

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12 hours ago, Bespin said:

Dune is said to be homophobic, author Frank Herbert having rejected his own gay son at the time. The character of the villain in Dune, the baron, is described in the book as diabolical, depraved, monstrous, grotesque and homosexual. Does Denis Villeneuve have a problem with the LGBTQ+ community?

I haven't read the book, however, no matter how homophobic the source material might be, with Villeneuve as a gate keeper there's no chance for anything of that to percolate the movie - not this one and not the next one.

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@DarthDementous

Thanks for your insightful, and honest evaluations of both DUNEs.

I've not seen the Vinleuv er..no Vellnew oh... possibly even Vinill ... the latest version (sorry, I can't spell Villeneuve), so I can't comment, but I'm a lifelong fan of Lynch's version. It's # 4 on my all-time top 10 films list.

I watched it 5 times at the cinema, the first three simply to absorb all the information. Every time after, it's been for pure visual and aural pleasure :).

You're right: DUNE REDUX is fantastic!

It's a real pity that Lynch is not willing to revisit DUNE, and, of course, po' Tony Gibbs is no longer with us, so REDUX is the closest thing that we have to his original vision.

Btw, avoid the extended (television) cut!

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56 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

@DarthDementous

Thanks for your insightful, and honest evaluations of both DUNEs.

I've not seen the Vinleuv er..no Vellnew oh... possibly even Vinill ... the latest version (sorry, I can't spell Villeneuve), so I can't comment, but I'm a lifelong fan of Lynch's version. It's # 4 on my all-time top 10 films list.

I watched it 5 times at the cinema, the first three simply to absorb all the information. Every time after, it's been for pure visual and aural pleasure :).

You're right: DUNE REDUX is fantastic!

It's a real pity that Lynch is not willing to revisit DUNE, and, of course, po' Tony Gibbs is no longer with us, so REDUX is the closest thing that we have to his original vision.

Btw, avoid the extended (television) cut!

I wasn’t quite sure what was so bad about the TV cut until I learned they attempted to make it more family-friendly, and I shudder to think of what the implications of that were.

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Things wrong with the TV cut:

- New 10 minute introduction, with footage shown out of context, and annoying voiceover

- scenes rearranged, not according to Lynch's vision 

- 4:3 ratio 

- "Screenplay by Judas Booth" 

- "Directed by Alan Smithee" (not surprised Lynch had his name taken off the film!) 

There's more, but I can't remember,at the mo.

 

 

 

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Thank you very much for robbing Dune's IMAX screens, Crapternals. :angry:

 

Quote

In holdover news for Friday, Dune lost most of its prized IMAX and PLF screens to Eternals. As such, that it “only” dropped 54% on Friday ($2.25 million) is almost good. However, A) the numbers still aren’t that hot and B) almost everything else had much better holds compared to last Friday. Nonetheless, Denis Villeneuve’s sci-fi epic, which already has a sequel set for October 20, 2023, will gross around $7.1 million (-54%) in weekend three for an $83.5 million 17-day total. Barring an awards season revival, this one will still struggle to top $100 million domestic.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/11/06/friday-box-office-eternals-wounds-dune-as-my-hero-academia-plunges-85/?sh=6645487385fe

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28 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

My worries for Dune is that it should be the inverse of that.

My worries for Dune is that it might have the same delay as Fury Road sequel/spin-off... 6 years and counting that sucks

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31 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The Empire Strikes Back had a much bigger budget than the original film.

 

My worries for Dune is that it should be the inverse of that.

 

I meant in terms of appreciation. 

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Did you know that when Ridley Scott says Star Wars is f'cking great, he refers to the first movie and only the first movie? 

 

That's right, not everyone thinks Empire is better. 

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Oh, there's a whole bunch of people who think its better; particularly other filmmakers, it seems. Off the top of my head, Peter Jackson also says that Empire hadn't "matched that first experience of seeing Star Wars."

 

Not only do I not agree, I think the leap between the two films is consistently understated. Not only do I think Empire is better, I think its an order-of-magnitude better.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Oh, there's a whole bunch of people who think its better; particularly other filmmakers, it seems. Off the top of my head, Peter Jackson also says that Empire hadn't "matched that first experience of seeing Star Wars."

 

Not only do I not agree, I think the leap between the two films is consistently understated. Not only do I think Empire is better, I think its an order-of-magnitude better.

I agree. Star Wars tends to get bonus points for being the first movie that started it all.

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