Villeneuve's DUNE

[Chen G. 3,949]

That's not what I mean.

 

What I mean is that very often what artists say they'll do is not what they end-up actually doing; and that's absolutely the case here.

 

That's not a criticism of Villenueve either personally or artistically: Like I said, I think making us wait for Arrakis worked tremendously.

[Tallguy 3,384]

10 hours ago, Positivatee said:

and made Feyd hetero to make him sympathetic

 

In which book now? Feyd is more of a monster than the Baron is. Well... They're neck and neck. The only difference is that the Baron kind of has purpose. Feyd is just a feral dog.

[Positivatee 327]

I don't know, I didn't know these were based on books. 

[Romão 2,274]

12 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I just re-read it last month. He's talked about. He never appears.

 

 

On page 201 of the Sci-Fi Masterworks edition:

 

“M’Lord Baron.”

The man who stood outside the doorfield of the Baron’s bedchamber was low built, gross of face and body, with the Harkonnen paternal line’s narrow-set eyes and bulge of shoulders. There was yet some rigidity in his fat, but it was obvious to the eye that he’d come one day to the portable suspensors for carrying his excess weight.

A muscle-minded tank-brain, the Baron thought. No Mentat, my nephew… not a Piter de Vries, but perhaps something more precisely devised for the task at hand. If I give him freedom to do it, he’ll grind over everything in his path. Oh, how he’ll be hated here on Arrakis!

“My dear Rabban,” the Baron said. He released the doorfield, but pointedly kept his body shield at full strength, knowing that the shimmer of it would be visible above the bedside glowglobe.

“You summoned me,” Rabban said. He stepped into the room, flicked a glance past the air disturbance of the body shield, searched for a suspensor chair, found none.

 

And the scene continues for a few more pages

[Positivatee 327]

But does he actually... Appear? After all, these are old books with no pictures. 

[Edmilson 7,434]

If you haven't watched Dune in IMAX yet, you'll have one more chance to do so.

 

‘Dune’ Returning To Imax As Pic Nears $100M Domestic Box Office

 

The movie looks just amazing in the format.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

How good will it look on a 32" telly? 😄

[A24 4,331]

Trinitron?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Ha, ha! No, it's not.

[A24 4,331]

You can say what you want, but when it comes to designing the world, Villenueve was true to himself. 

 

 

Empty sets! Just the way he likes it!

[Edmilson 7,434]

‘Dune’: Denis Villeneuve Sci-Fi Epic Finally Crosses $100M At Domestic Box Office

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Dune has gotten a bad lip reading song

 

 

[A24 4,331]

Youtuber films and records the sound of an eating squirrel and the sound ends up in Dune.

 

 

Here she talks with sound designer Mark Mangini about her sound. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

Youtuber films and records the sound of a eating squirrel and the sound ends up in Dune.

 

Dani Connor went massively viral with that baby squirrel eating video back when she first posted it, and successfully built her photographing career from that. She makes great photos, too. (And judging from her Instagram account, she's a bit of a Star Wars/Williams fan as well).

4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

baby squirrel eating video

 

(That sounds wrong)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

...she's a bit of a...Williams fan as well).

Oh, yeah? I bet she doesn't like IMAGES.

[Bespin 8,480]

Tonight I watched the first 1 h 30 of Dune.

 

Not bad.  I realize how much Star Wars was inspired by this story.

 

It remains a "moody" movie... flash back, visions, I absolutely hate that. Random montage... after 1 h 30 I lost interest... I can imagine the rest.

 

And that Hans Zimmer music... well, if we can call that music... that's generic music, made by a servant, not a composer.

[A24 4,331]

The movie evaporated from my mind rather quickly, which is never a good sign. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

9 hours ago, Bespin said:

Not bad.  I realize how much Star Wars was inspired by this story.

 

Was it? Its mostly just Tatooine as an environment and the whole "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded" thing and that's it.

[A24 4,331]

Chen G, protector of the George Lucas legacy.

[Tallguy 3,384]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Was it? Its mostly just Tatooine as an environment and the whole "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded" thing and that's it.

 

Spice, sandcrawlers. He changed from Jedi-bindu to just Jedi. There were a couple more things (other than just SAND) that I noticed the last go through. Arguably Tatooine is shown to be more hospitable than Arrakis.

 

It's not like Star Wars is just Dune. But it's an obvious influence. At least Dune survived it better than John Carter (of Mars) did.

[Positivatee 327]

The use of "spice" in the original Star Wars film is a throwaway line. It's just a commodity with no discussion of its properties. 

 

The Jawa sandcrawler invokes the concept of melange collection vehicles but it also resembles a big old tank from either of the World Wars. Tatooine is nowhere near as inhospitable as Arrakis. No stillsuits. No walking in an arhythmic pattern to avoid lethal animals. Hell, you'd think that having two suns would make the day downright lethal. Nope. It's just a normal Earth desert with a cool sunset scene. 

 

Star Wars has an evil Empire, as does Dune. But Star Trek had evil empires too. BSG would later have a Cylon Empire. 

 

Dune has the Voice. Star Wars calls it the Force and tweaks it. 

 

Dune had Duncan Idaho. Star Wars has Han Solo. No major similarities. 

 

If we look at the sequels, Return of the Jedi adds something that resembles the idea of a sandworm, stripped to its most basic element. Luke and Leia are revealed to be twins, but they have nothing in common with the royal siblings in Dune (Paul and the pre-born and insane Alia) or Paul's twins, the pre-born Leto III and Ghanima. 

 

There are similarities but not enough to say Star Wars steals heavily from Dune. If anything, Star Wars just married the desert with Japanese mythology and made it more accessible. 

[Bespin 8,480]

Anyway, after 1 h 30, I left the Baron trying to hide on the ceilling.

 

Villeneuve failed over this character, his scenes are too short... well in the first 1 h 30 of the movie, I stopped it after.

 

Even my husband who nows Dune very well was a bit disappointed by Villeneuve's Baron.

 

And well the Blue-eyed Girl in the desert, after two times Paul had the vision we understood... after it's becoming repetitive.

 

There are soooooo many reasons why no Villeneuve movie will ever be cult!!!

[Tallguy 3,384]

39 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

The use of "spice" in the original Star Wars film is a throwaway line. It's just a commodity with no discussion of its properties. 

 

The Jawa sandcrawler invokes the concept of melange collection vehicles

 

It is also called "Sandcrawler", a term specifically used in Dune.

 

And George hardly landed on "spice" by accident.

 

In Buckaroo Banzai John Bigboote refers to what he's passing off as a robot as a "droid". Nothing like R2-D2 or C-3PO. But lets not fool ourselves that the word came from Star Wars. (And then George got litigious about it.)

 

Obviously Star Wars is a mishmash. (A melange if you will.)

 

That's what makes it Star Wars. But part of that mishmash is some very specific grabs from Dune just like it has very specific grabs from The Dam Busters.

 

39 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

If we look at the sequels,

 

We're not. Just 1977 Star Wars.

 

10 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Even my husband who nows Dune very well was a bit disappointed by Villeneuve's Baron.

 

He's still the best Baron. The other two Dune films took Harkonen and made him way more over the top. DV went the other direction. None of them are as smart as VH is supposed to be. I wouldn't call it a fail, but it isn't a full win either.

 

I won't get to see it again until January.

 

 

[A24 4,331]

 

Another similarity: We don't see the evil emperor in the first Dune and Star Wars movies, only his loyal and powerful 'servant' doing the dirty work for him.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

It's not like Star Wars is just Dune. But it's an obvious influence. At least Dune survived it better than John Carter (of Mars) did.

 

Oh, for sure Dune is an influence on Star Wars! But to my mind, its one of tertiary importance. There are much more significant influences in there.

 

41 minutes ago, AC1 said:

We don't see the evil emperor in the first Dune and Star Wars movies

 

The concept of having Emperors in a science-fiction setting far predates Dune, and the character of the Emperor in Star Wars went through a lot of variations, none of which seem to resemble Dune much.

 

Sometimes, similarities between works are - if not coincidental as such - just stem from those simialr concepts being generic. For instance, its very easy to look at the trash-compactor monster in Star Wars as being based on Tolkien's "Watcher in the Water", but I don't think it really is.

[A24 4,331]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The concept of having Emperors in a science-fiction setting far predates Dune, 

 

That wasn't my point at all. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

I know, I know, it was just a convienent example for the case I'm making that some of the similarities one sees between Dune and Star Wars are just "genric sci-fi" tropes.

 

Really, the only thing that seems to me to be very deliberate was the whole "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded" bit. I was watching Dune and went "oh!"

[Positivatee 327]

This bickering is pointless. 

 

Next you're going to try and argue that Willow wasn't an original story, too. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Reading Dune, there's a bit of an "oh that's were Lucas got that from" epiphany every couple of pages. It's not the only influence, but it's clearly a huge one. Which is corroborated by lots of small, insignificant (except for their numbers) similarities - there's even blue milk in Dune.

[Tallguy 3,384]

51 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

Next you're going to try and argue that Willow wasn't an original story, too. 

 

Holy Moses of course it was.

 

49 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Reading Dune, there's a bit of an "oh that's were Lucas got that from" epiphany every couple of pages. It's not the only influence, but it's clearly a huge one.

 

Herbert apparently left the theater fuming.

 

The funny thing is that a year later Lucas was suing Battlestar Galactica over "generic sci-fi tropes".

[Brundlefly 2,385]

8 hours ago, Bespin said:

There are soooooo many reasons why no Villeneuve movie will ever be cult!!!

Don't make me stop loving you.

 

Besides, they don't need to be cult, when they certainly will become an important part of movie culture.

[Bespin 8,480]

I watched the rest of the movie.

 

Sorry, I don't belong to that universe.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

4 hours ago, Bespin said:

Sorry, I don't belong to that universe.

This is, probably, the best comment about any film that I have ever read.

[A24 4,331]

Let's hope Bespin didn't copyright it!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

No, really. It's simple, succinct, and searingly honest. I hope Bes does copyright it. It's brilliant.

[badbu 123]

i love star wars and i love dune :-) 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Good for you, sport. It is possible to like both.

[A24 4,331]

I prefer Villeneuve's Dune over Disney Star Wars. 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

I prefer a poke in the eye, over Disney Star Wars.

[A24 4,331]

 

Denis Villeneuve and James Cameron chat about Dune, Avatar, the cinema experience, the future of film, etc.

 

Interesting quote:

 

Quote

James Cameron: "The thing that strikes me about “Dune” is that it’s truly epic. When I use the word “epic,” I’m using it in a very specific way, meaning like a David Lean film, or to a very large extent like the “Lord of the Rings” films. But when I think of films that have epic events in them, like let’s say a Marvel Universe film where whole cities get destroyed and so on, they don’t feel epic to me. You seem to have the discipline, the vocabulary, of actual epic filmmaking, that kind of grand proscenium frame that’s just presented and takes its time with the music and so on. Is that just innate with you? Were you trying a style on this film that you hadn’t done?"

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

I think these comparisons to The Lord of the Rings are really harmfull to Dune, not because its better or worst, but because its different.

 

Dune is not Star Wars.

Dune is not The Lord of the Rings.

 

Dune is Dune, and is all the better for it.

[A24 4,331]

Cameron isn't saying Dune is trying to be LOTR. He's saying villeneuve's movie is epic like a David Lean movie or LOTR. It's not harmful at all. It's a compliment.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I know, I know.

 

But you just know that some people are going to take that very literally; I've certainly seen that in reviews leading-up to the film.

[Tallguy 3,384]

One of the most amazing things is that Tolkien appears to have read Dune. Hated it, of course.

[Chen G. 3,949]

"With some intensity", but without describing why.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I think these comparisons to The Lord of the Rings are really harmfull to Dune, not because its better or worst, but because its different.

 

Arthur C. Clarke begs to differ. Though I never quite understood why.

 

26 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

"With some intensity", but without describing why.

 

It's very un-Tolkien-ish in its themes, characters, and storytelling. And I can't imagine Tolkien would have approved of Herbert's take on religion.

[Mephariel 451]

On 16/12/2021 at 11:12 PM, AC1 said:

I prefer Villeneuve's Dune over Disney Star Wars. 

 

 

 

I prefer Dune over any Star Wars. I am just not into family oriented action films. I can't really love movies that tries to be cool but not too cool. Tries to have action but not too violent. Tries to have romance, but not too sexy, etc. 

[A24 4,331]

28 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

I prefer Dune over any Star Wars.

 

What about the music? 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,515]

Toto's DUNE is my fourth favourite score, ever.

No Star Wars score would scrape into my top-20.

[A24 4,331]

Really? Toto over ...