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Alexcremers

Villenueve's DUNE

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11 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

One of the reasons of the success of Alien is how realistic and relatable the characters are. It instantly gives them an extra dimension, making them into something more than just random characters or cannon fodder. We connect to their unseen-before realism, their commonness, naturalism, and yes, likability, without Hollywoodizing or glamorizing them. And if you would ask me, it's rarely done better. Of course, Alien is one of my favorite movies, but it's not just because of its the way it looks. It's the combination of creating a convincing place inhabited with equally convincing characters. Not every movie pulls this off. If the characters of Alien really left us cold, then we wouldn't care what happens to them, and the movie would not be were it is today. Heck, Ripley is often cited as one of the best sci-fi heroines of all time. Really, KK, if you believe Alien is a great example for telling me that characters don't matter as long as a movie's world is great, then you did not succeed. Any other examples?

 

No doubt the characters in ALIEN are important for the engrossment (crucial even), and the realistic way they are portrayed, but that's not why it became such a cornerstone classic. If that was all there was to it, it would have been a pretty run-of-the-mill genre pic. Quite the contrary, it has ALL to do with mise-en-scene, and how that creates sub-conscious effects on the spectator, founded on some deep, psychological trauma that we all share. But we've discussed this topic many times before, and I even forwarded you to an article I wrote a few years ago.

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Just now, Romão said:

2001

 

Well, that's probably the only sci-fi film, that I can think of, where it's all successfully about the movie itself and not the characters. But even here, I have to say that David Bowman is an irreplaceable and iconic character. The movie would be less great without him, IMO.

 

2001-bowman.jpg

 

 

Just now, Thor said:

 

No doubt the characters in ALIEN are important for the engrossment, and the realistic way they are portrayed, but that's not why it became such a cornerstone classic. If that was all there was to it, it would have been a pretty run-of-the-mill genre pic. Quite the contrary, it has ALL to do with mise-en-scene, and how that creates sub-conscious effects on the spectator, founded on some deep, psychological trauma that we all share. But we've discussed this topic many times before, and I even forwarded you to an article I wrote a few years ago.

 

You are right, the design of Alien is extremely important. But like I said, Thor, it's the combination of creating a convincing place (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly) inhabited with characters that you connect with (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly). One cannot do without the other. And it's precisely this aspect that I worry Dune might not pull off. It will look the part but it will be let down by characters that just don't do it for me. I'm saying this because it seems to be trend with me and Villeneuve. Your mileage may vary, of course.

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40 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

You are right, the design of Alien is extremely important. But like I said, Thor, it's the combination of creating a convincing place (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly) inhabited with characters that you connect with (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly). One cannot do without the other. And it's precisely this aspect that I worry Dune might not pull off. It will look the part but it will be let down by characters that just don't do it for me. I'm saying this because it seems to be trend with me and Villeneuve. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

I'll give you that the characters (and the way they are portrayed) are one out of the four crucial elements in the film. But it's by no means the most important; more like a stepping-stone to attack the perils and symbolism, really. The film's value and place in history come from a completely different place. Here's my article again -- Google-translated -- and although there's some weird translations going on here, it gets the point across.

 

I like a good story and well-rounded characters like everyone else, but my main attraction to film as a medium is its audiovisual potential; its ability to communicate ideas strictly through visuals and sound. ALIEN is a perfect example of that, and I'm sure Denis Villeneuve's DUNE will be another. Time will tell. I'm confident.

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Your film list of visual experiences will certainly be longer than mine. 

 

Take for example the female replicant killer villain in BR 2049, compare her to the replicants of Blade Runner. and you realize how bland she is. And then there's her dialog: "I win! I'm the best!" Ugh ... Things like that make sure that I keep my distance, even though it's just a character in a visual spectacle. Characters, dialog, the direction, the visuals, the music ... it all has to come together or one can drag the others down. That's why the truly great movies are in short supply.

 

Okay, Thor, in your defence, I think I may have found another movie, besides 2001: ASO, where it's purely (unlike Alien) about vision and for the viewer to 'experience' that vision:

 

p168386_v_v8_ao.jpg

 

When talking about that movie, you don't really mention the characters, you talk about the execution. You can replace the actors and nobody would complain. It's a Julie Taymor trip. 

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7 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Well, that's probably the only sci-fi film, that I can think of, where it's all successfully about the movie itself and not the characters. But even here, I have to say that David Bowman is an irreplaceable and iconic character. The movie would be less great without him, IMO.

 

Irreplaceable and iconic as an actor. But Bowman is absolutely a non-character to me, to such an extent that I can't think of any other film, not even a bad one, that has a protagonist who feels so completely removed and unrelateable.

10 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Prisoners was the one with Jackman and Gyllenhaal, right?  Yeah I thought it was gripping and brilliant.

 

Yes. And it also features brilliant cinematography by Deakins, which surprised me at the time, because it's not the type of film (or even style, really) where I'd have expected it.

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6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Irreplaceable and iconic as an actor. But Bowman is absolutely a non-character to me, to such an extent that I can't think of any other film, not even a bad one, that has a protagonist who feels so completely removed and unrelateable.

 

 

 

Well, that's why HAL is more human than the humans, Marian. Bowman had to be emotionless, someone who has everything under control, an übermens, someone who is ready to become the next step in evolution, but underneath that all, if you look carefully, you can still see the emotions being contained.

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2 hours ago, Romão said:

Nothing really new there, Alex. 

 

 

The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones.

 

D42TnIeWkAAFIfU.jpg

 

But we probably already talked about that too.

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1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones.

 

D42TnIeWkAAFIfU.jpg

 

But we probably already talked about that too.

 

Funny I just watched this Indiana Jones last night hahaha

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3 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones.

 

D42TnIeWkAAFIfU.jpg

 

But we probably already talked about that too.

 

1 hour ago, toothless said:

 

Funny I just watched this Indiana Jones last night hahaha

 

Typical western ignorance to associate Raqmu, a site that has stood for thousands if years with a Hollywood's movie.

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Shit. Never when I read the Dune novels did I envision Sietch Tabr as being Petra. I would have thought the Fremen would want to stay hidden, not build a lavish front door that announces where they live. 

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Eh, they are space nomads that settled in the desert thousands of years ago, worship giant worms, conserve water, and are waiting for a messiah. 

 

They are space Jews. Lol, j/k. 

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Muslims are also waiting for Messiah. In fact, the very same one as the Christian Messiah.

 

Anyway, it seems odd to me that Petra, such a well-known and iconic real-world location, should have anything to do with Dune.

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6 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones.

 

D42TnIeWkAAFIfU.jpg

 

But we probably already talked about that too.

 

 

That's not a set photo, that's just Jason Mamoa doing some turism in the area (the film was shot in Jordan) and posting some photos. No set photos have leaked so far. Petra will no be featured in the film

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5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

 

Typical western ignorance to associate Raqmu, a site that has stood for thousands if years with a Hollywood's movie.

 

I did not associate anything. Just said I watched a movie last night.

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I actually even dislike it in Last Crusade. It takes a lot of the mystical edge off the Temple of the Sun when it's literally just the iconic Petra, your neighbour's been there on holiday.

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2 hours ago, Holko said:

It takes a lot of the mystical edge off the Temple of the Sun when it's literally just the iconic Petra, your neighbour's been there on holiday.


I get it (Petra is maybe five hours drive from my home) but it’s really not an issue with me. Plus, you gotta love the kind of unashamed David Lean tribute that is The Last Crusade: from Venice - straight out of Summertime -  to Petra, which Lean wanted to shot a scene of Lawrence at, but couldn’t.

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I love when minimalism gets it so right that I'm just left wondering how much of it is by complete accident (or luck) and how much is genius.

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The full version that was shown (and taken down in the meantime), had an extra eye or planet element on the last letter, making the spelling of Dune much more obvious.

 

This a recreation of what was shown:

 

EPcl0ZOXsAA1Dd1?format=jpg&name=large

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I wish Zimmer's score to be more like a 70s progressive rock song, full of these spacey guitars and synths:

 

 

But I guess we'll probably get the exotic parts of Gladiator mixed with Inception BAAAAUMS or whatever. Maybe the wailing woman trend will make its glorious return exactly 20 years later?

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20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

But I guess we'll probably get the exotic parts of Gladiator mixed with Inception BAAAAUMS or whatever. Maybe the wailing woman trend will make its glorious return?

 

Please, no more wailing woman!

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3 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I really hope this will be more like Interstellar than Gladiator.

 

I really like Gladiator, and especially Lisa Gerard's contributions to that score.

 

Its more the stream of copycats that followed that I don't like.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Zimmer said:

Wailing man it is.

 

I believe that was done, too, although I can't remember where. Yared's Troy, perhaps?

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8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I believe that was done, too, although I can't remember where. Yared's Troy, perhaps?


Not to reduce Fateh Ali Khan’s thunderous voice to “wailing”, but...

 

 

 

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