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STAR WARS - Live To Projection Concerts


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3 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Another really great performance by (I think, they didn’t have programmes) the Philharmonic Concert Orchestra. A few thoughts:

 

As Karol said, it's the LSO (as for Star Wars a couple of years ago, though ESB was handled by the Philharmonia Orchestra). I was there for SW and ESB and was planning for ROTJ when it was first programmed in 2020 (but then obviously cancelled). I was still considering going this year, but didn't want to commit when tickets went on sale in spring, and never bothered to fully commit (somewhat lucky, because it turned out that 2020's Hollywood in Vienna was rescheduled for today - although I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather have heard the LSO).

 

I was going to ask if they had a choir for these, so thanks for clearing that up.

 

The LSO and Maxine Kwok have a few posts up on Twitter and Instagram.

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IMG_20220924_192805_953.jpg

 

First Film in Concert, was amazing! Really enjoyed seeing the film like this so will be keeping my eye out for more.

 

3 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

 

  • I really didn’t miss the choir in the Emperor passages and it was great to be able to hear the underlying orchestral parts. Have any of those sections been reworked to compensate for the lack of choir or is the choir just omitted?
  • This seemed to have more instances of cues crashing into eachother/overlapping between scenes than the first two. Must be especially horrible to perform as you lose musicality and timing when a short passage tramples over another section.
  • As a prelude to the second half, they played an excerpt from Carbon Freeze from Empire. Bit odd.
  • They performed the percussion passage as the heroes are taken to the Ewok village which I’m pretty sure isn’t on any version. I mean it’s just some percussion so you’re not missing much but it was nice to hear.
  • Performing the Ewok horn calls on trumpet was a nice touch.
  • The orchestra only version of Victory Celebration I actually liked more although it sounds oddly more wistful and melancholy like that. I still can’t understand how the join with the end credits is so bad though…

 

  • Yeah was a bit odd at first, sounded like it was just the music without the choir. But the part where the Emperor is electrocuting Luke still gave me goosebumps.
  • Haven't seen the first two, but it all flowed nicely to me. Actually prefered the bit just as the rebel fleet goes into hyperspace, it had always been quite a sharp change before. But yeah for the musicans some of those edits must be terrible to perform (but they still managed to pull them off).
  • At the 7:30 performance they did Through The Window, which was a bit odd as well but maybe as they're already doing Return of The Jedi it was just to give the orcestra something a bit different but still Star Wars?
  • That plus Ewok Feast and Part of The Tribe, which both felt really bare bones done this way.

  • The first time I was a bit confused, but the second time noticed it was the trumpets, wasn't expecting that so a nice touch indeed.

  • Prefer Yub Nub myself :lol:, you nailed it on the head with it being more wistful and melancholy, which is maybe more fitting as instead of being the end of the story it's now leading into the sequel trilogy?

  • Also it's been a very long time since watching the Special Editions, but did some of the dialogue during the celebration montage seem to be mixed louder to you?

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1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

Probably not, no. Shame, really: TPM and ROTS would be awesome to hear live (being hacked to bits notwithstanding)

They would but I think there’s probably a limit as to how much good a score can sound that’s been heavily edited. Jedi definitely had more cues crashing into one another and overlaps and edits. Empire and Star Wars have far fewer or the overlaps are much more natural (ie composed that way). 

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3 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Empire and Star Wars have far fewer or the overlaps are much more natural (ie composed that way). 

 

ESB is a mess in terms of music editing, and it really bothered me during the LTP concert (in addition to the acoustics, because I wasn't sitting in my usual spot in the hall and had all kinds of balancing and reverb issues). From what I remember from the films itself, ROTJ is worse still, but ESB is by no means untroubled by it.

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17 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

They performed the percussion passage as the heroes are taken to the Ewok village which I’m pretty sure isn’t on any version. I mean it’s just some percussion so you’re not missing much but it was nice to hear.

 

That's absolutely on the 1997 2-CD set.

 

 

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8 hours ago, GlastoEls said:

Will they do the prequels next?

They can’t do it. They played around with the music so much in the editing room that the music recorded does not match what was in the movie even pitch wise. They would have to make the sheets from scratch

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6 hours ago, ciarlese said:

Am I wrong or "the Emperor's Arrival" was quite different than the original version?

It is the original film version, it's just when the 'Imperial March' ostinato appears theres a horrible clunky edit that loops, i'm guessing the original scene was longer? 

 

The main melody when we are in the hangar was meant to be played by 4 Trumpets, 4 Trombones and 2 Horns (the other 4 horns doing the syncopated part). However all 6 horns were doing the syncopated part in the live to picture, which resulted in the melody not having that large stereo/left & right spread across the stage (like the original recording does). 

 

It was still a fantastic performance though, the trombones were stand out and much better than the trombones in the Empire Strikes Back performance at Albert Hall back in 2019. 

 

Maybe these differences are what you were hearing? 

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So are you saying 4 of the 6 horns on stage played the wrong part during that cue, or are you saying the paperwork itself is wrong and no one's caught it yet?

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

So are you saying 4 of the 6 horns on stage played the wrong part during that cue, or are you saying the paperwork itself is wrong and no one's caught it yet?

The score is wrong, the players performed correctly. 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

So are you saying 4 of the 6 horns on stage played the wrong part during that cue, or are you saying the paperwork itself is wrong and no one's caught it yet?

The leaked LTP sheets for the cue are very different than the originals

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11 hours ago, aj_vader said:

It is the original film version, it's just when the 'Imperial March' ostinato appears theres a horrible clunky edit that loops, i'm guessing the original scene was longer? 

 

The main melody when we are in the hangar was meant to be played by 4 Trumpets, 4 Trombones and 2 Horns (the other 4 horns doing the syncopated part). However all 6 horns were doing the syncopated part in the live to picture, which resulted in the melody not having that large stereo/left & right spread across the stage (like the original recording does). 

 

It was still a fantastic performance though, the trombones were stand out and much better than the trombones in the Empire Strikes Back performance at Albert Hall back in 2019. 

 

Maybe these differences are what you were hearing? 

 

This is the original track.

There is a trumpet solo from 00:08 through 00:20. And the cue ends with a statement of the Imperial march.

Both seem to have gone in the most recent version of the movie?

 

 

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24 minutes ago, ciarlese said:

 

This is the original track.

There is a trumpet solo from 00:08 through 00:20. And the cue ends with a statement of the Imperial march.

Both seem to have gone in the most recent version of the movie?

 

 

 

That is the cue as originally composed and recorded by JW. He later wrote and recorded two inserts to replace the trumpet solo bit and the appearance of the Emperor descending the ramp. For some reason, those two inserts were presented on the RCA Victor/Sony Classical 2-CD expansion literally "as recorded" at the beginning of the track "The Lightsaber/Ewok Battle" (track 21).

 

 

The edit "as heard in the film" has never been officially released, but there are some fan-made edits around.

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

ESB is a mess in terms of music editing, and it really bothered me during the LTP concert (in addition to the acoustics, because I wasn't sitting in my usual spot in the hall and had all kinds of balancing and reverb issues). From what I remember from the films itself, ROTJ is worse still, but ESB is by no means untroubled by it.

 

Ep4 is certainly the one with less issues on that side of things and the one that imho stands up better musically speaking (despite some long stretches without score). Both TESB and ROTJ retain a lot of the looping and tracking of cues, and the situation is aggravated because they use the 1997 SE versions for the LTP performances, so it was decided to conform the score to those edits as heard in the films. Imho, it's a missed opportunity to restore some of JW's original intentions or at least smooth some of those awkward transitions, but it seems that the general attitude is always to have the LTP score as close as possible to the known versions of the films instead of creating a "composer's cut" version of the film.

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17 hours ago, Gibster said:

They can’t do it. They played around with the music so much in the editing room that the music recorded does not match what was in the movie even pitch wise. They would have to make the sheets from scratch

 

I think the only one to suffer less from this would be The Phantom Menace, since IIRC there's no pitch-shifted passages in there at all, it's just edited to buggery.

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On 25/09/2022 at 2:41 AM, Groovygoth666 said:

IMG_20220924_192805_953.jpg

 

First Film in Concert, was amazing! Really enjoyed seeing the film like this so will be keeping my eye out for more.

 

  • Yeah was a bit odd at first, sounded like it was just the music without the choir. But the part where the Emperor is electrocuting Luke still gave me goosebumps.
  • Haven't seen the first two, but it all flowed nicely to me. Actually prefered the bit just as the rebel fleet goes into hyperspace, it had always been quite a sharp change before. But yeah for the musicans some of those edits must be terrible to perform (but they still managed to pull them off).
  • At the 7:30 performance they did Through The Window, which was a bit odd as well but maybe as they're already doing Return of The Jedi it was just to give the orcestra something a bit different but still Star Wars?
  • That plus Ewok Feast and Part of The Tribe, which both felt really bare bones done this way.

  • The first time I was a bit confused, but the second time noticed it was the trumpets, wasn't expecting that so a nice touch indeed.

  • Prefer Yub Nub myself :lol:, you nailed it on the head with it being more wistful and melancholy, which is maybe more fitting as instead of being the end of the story it's now leading into the sequel trilogy?

  • Also it's been a very long time since watching the Special Editions, but did some of the dialogue during the celebration montage seem to be mixed louder to you?

I thought all of the passages with Luke, Vader and the Emperor on the Death Star sounded terrific and definitely didn't feel like I missed the choir. Funny that someone commented how JW was a good, if not outstanding choral composer, so perhaps it's not super surprising that, although the overall effect of the choir with the Emperor is highly effective, it's still terrific without.

 

I almost wish I'd seen several of these films with orchestra a couple of times having seen the regular version beforehand to spot the differences. Yes, it was Through the Window, I think I was just conflating that whole Cloud City sequence with the specific section they used. I still think it was a touch odd. It would have been fun to hear either Luke & Leia or Parade of the Ewoks instead but hey, any chance to hear something from Empire live is great with me.

 

Musically I like Victory Celebration (even though the melody always reminds me of Road to Mandalay by Robbie Williams... seriously) a lot, but the original feels more fitting both in terms of mixing the Ewoks percussion elements with the broader orchestral/choral passages as it builds to the credits. Skipping to all the places around the galaxy that are in the prequels but not in the originals doesn't make a lot of sense, plus the aforementioned terrible edit into the credits. I agree on the dialogue, it was weird! There are some clear celebratory shouts that seemed really peculiar given that they don't focus on any individuals in those shots.

 

18 hours ago, Jay said:

 

That's absolutely on the 1997 2-CD set.

 

 

I realise why I didn't remember it, it's in a separate source cues section in my library which I rarely listen to. I guess it didn't register as being part of the score itself so it stuck out when it was clearly performed by the percussion in a way that I wouldn't think of when watching the film normally. Unlike the diegetic Jabba music which is Jedi Rocks/Lapti Nek/pastiche synthy baroque, the Ewok feast music sounds more like the scoring around it so you almost don't notice that the Feast/Tribe cue is source music rather than just underscore.

1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

 

That is the cue as originally composed and recorded by JW. He later wrote and recorded two inserts to replace the trumpet solo bit and the appearance of the Emperor descending the ramp. For some reason, those two inserts were presented on the RCA Victor/Sony Classical 2-CD expansion literally "as recorded" at the beginning of the track "The Lightsaber/Ewok Battle" (track 21).

 

 

The edit "as heard in the film" has never been officially released, but there are some fan-made edits around.

 

 

 

 

Ep4 is certainly the one with less issues on that side of things and the one that imho stands up better musically speaking (despite some long stretches without score). Both TESB and ROTJ retain a lot of the looping and tracking of cues, and the situation is aggravated because they use the 1997 SE versions for the LTP performances, so it was decided to conform the score to those edits as heard in the films. Imho, it's a missed opportunity to restore some of JW's original intentions or at least smooth some of those awkward transitions, but it seems that the general attitude is always to have the LTP score as close as possible to the known versions of the films instead of creating a "composer's cut" version of the film.

It's definitely a shame they didn't try to recreate the music closer to what was intended although I have to admit that I don't recall finding too many jarring passages in Empire, certainly not as many as Jedi. The worst in Empire for me is the annoying addition of Vader's shuttle taking off from Cloud City which ruins the pacing of the film as well as upsetting JW's perfectly constructed music.

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18 hours ago, crocodile said:

What I find so strange is that the intro to the second half ends with the crescendo from the very end of Battle of the Heroes suite. 

 

Karol

It's the version they used for the laser show after the interval in Star Wars A Musical Journey/Star Wars In Concert. 

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I booked Home Alone for this December which is also going to by my 13th different live to projection JW score. And 16th altogether (will see E.T. for the third time this month and saw ROTJ twice).

 

Karol

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I've only seen 3 live to pictures and they are; 

 

A New Hope, LSO, Royal Albert Hall (2018)

Empire, PO, Royal Albert Hall (2019)

Jedi, LSO, Royal Albert Hall (2022)

 

image.png

 

If I were to rate them i'd say 

 

1. A New Hope 

2. Jedi

3. Empire

 

The performance of A New Hope by the LSO was incredible. Empire suffered because the sound of the film was far too loud and badly mixed against the music. I think I saw one audience member go talk to the sound team, I assume to ask to turn the sound down at the interval. The PO were very good of course but the brass suffered compared to both LSO performances. Jedi was also a fantastic performance, but it's just the editing on jedi is awful, the jump between the cue from Empire to Jedi during the Destruction of the second Death Star was very distracting, maybe because I knew it was coming perhaps? But moments like that took me out of it. 

 

They were all fantastic of course and moments i'll treasure forever. 

 

Here's a little of 'The Emperor Arrives' from Jedi. Sorry it's only a mono recording on my phone in the pocket, you can imagine the sound in the hall! 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N_Pio9nEPTKMxq4Lszii6VqPC0BecIt7/view?usp=sharing

 

I'm going to see The Halle Orchestra do E.T this month in Manchester, really looking forward to crying in front of many people again. 

 

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2 hours ago, aj_vader said:

Empire, LPO, Royal Albert Hall (2019)

[…]

The LPO were very good of course but the brass suffered compared to both LSO performances.

 

That was the Philharmonia Orchestra, not the London Philharmonic.

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2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

That was the Philharmonia Orchestra, not the London Philharmonic.

I know I was there. 

 

I'll change it to PO 👍, they aren't actually called the London Philharmonia Orchestra, didn't know that. 

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I agree with @aj_vaderthat the first SW score being played live by LSO. It was definitely one of ny favourite concert experiences so far. It is as if this film was meant to be shown this way - with huge enthusiastic crowd and LSO's brass. It was glorious. :)

 

Karol

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So you're telling me that England has:

 

The London Symphony Orchestra

The London Philharmonic Orchestra

The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

The Philharmonia Orchestra

 

And those are all completely different from each other?

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29 minutes ago, Brando said:

@Manakin Skywalkertold me a little while ago those Ewok horns were taken from the score for Lawrence of Arabia I believe. IIRC he said they're Shofar horns.

 

 

Elmer Bernstein's The Ten Commandments. And yes those are shofar horns.

 

Here is an excerpt:

 

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4 hours ago, aj_vader said:

I know I was there. 

 

I was too. Still sad I missed ROTJ.

 

4 hours ago, aj_vader said:

I'll change it to PO 👍, they aren't actually called the London Philharmonia Orchestra, didn't know that. 

 

I think LPO is the traditional acronym for the London Philharmonic Orchestra, so that's how I read it.

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

So you're telling me that England has:

 

The London Symphony Orchestra

The London Philharmonic Orchestra

The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

The Philharmonia Orchestra

 

And those are all completely different from each other?

 

The Philharmonia Orchestra the Herbert von Karajan's orchestra in the mid-20th century, before he took over the Berlin Philharmonic for the rest of his life. At the time I think it ranked higher than the LSO, before the LSO reclaimed its status as London's #1 orchestra and one of the best in the world (during the 70s under Previn, I assume?)

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47 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Elmer Bernstein's The Ten Commandments. And yes those are shofar horns.

 

Here is an excerpt:

The Ten Commandments! That’s what it was:lol:

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On 03/10/2022 at 9:31 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I was too. Still sad I missed ROTJ.

 

I think LPO is the traditional acronym for the London Philharmonic Orchestra, so that's how I read it.

 

Hopefully one day they cycle through the original trilogy again. I'd go see them all again, fantastic experiences. So sad we won't see/hear the prequels. 

 

Yeah I always refer to them as the London Philharmonia Orchestra, bad force of habit. 

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On 03/10/2022 at 9:13 PM, Omen II said:

 

The ones you have listed Jason are four of the 'big five' professional symphony orchestras based in London (the other being the BBC Symphony Orchestra) and yes, they are all completely separate entities.

 

However, England has a number of other fantastic professional symphony orchestras based outside London, including:

  • The City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra (based in England's second city)
  • The Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (based on the south coast but giving concerts across the southwest and the home counties)
  • The Hallé Orchestra (based in Manchester)
  • The BBC Philharmonic (also based in Manchester)
  • The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
  • The Royal Northern Sinfonia (based in Gateshead in the northeast)

There are also loads of professional chamber orchestras and period ensembles in England, of which there are too many to mention - The BBC Concert Orchestra, The Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, The London Mozart Players, The English Chamber Orchestra, L'Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, The Academy of Ancient Music, etc.  I have no doubt forgotten some.

 

Not to forget the Sinfonia of London...which is a kind of pickup band, I think.

 

CH5294.jpg

 

Sinfonia of London

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3 hours ago, BB-8 said:

 

Not to forget the Sinfonia of London...which is a kind of pickup band, I think.

 

Sinfonia of London

 

Yes indeed, I realised I had forgotten the brilliant Sinfonia of London immediately after I posted.  You are right that its players are the cream of the major orchestras in the UK, including several members of the LSO, the LPO, the RPO and BBC orchestras.

 

I went to their concerts at the BBC Proms this year and last, both of which were absolute highlights of those seasons.  Last year they played Korngold's symphony while this year they played Elgar's Enigma Variations and I will never hear either work played better if I live to be one hundred.  I already have tickets to their concert at the Barbican in December, so naughty me for forgetting them.

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