Popular Post Thor 7,385 Posted March 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 How the hell is there no previous thread on SLEEPERS?! (unless I used the search engine wrong again). In any case, I'm up to this now in my Williams film walkthrough, and I still maintain that this is one of Williams' most underrated scores in the last 25 years. Harrowing, foreboding, beautiful, modern all at once. And that's just on album. In the film, it's spectacular too -- it probably contains some of the darkest "real-life" scenes Williams has ever scored. Miguel Andrade, Josh500, Edmilson and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,612 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 This is one I have a lot of trouble getting through on album, personally. Never seen the movie, though I'd imagine it would improve with context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I have to revisit this eventually. I listened to it once like 15 years ago and never heard a note of it since. Have not recollection or impressions from it unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted March 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 The gorgeous end title setting of the main theme ("Hell's Kitchen") always made me think of Williams channeling Lenny Bernstein's On the Waterfront. thx99, Miguel Andrade, Josh500 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Its a good score, saying the rosary is fantastic and foreshadows ROTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,043 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I don't think I've ever listened to this one! If it was, it was once, a long time ago.... I did pick up the CD though, so I'll get to it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,385 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 I also rewatched the film not too long ago (when I was doing the film equivalent of what I'm doing soundtrack-wise now), and was struck by how good it was. Before that, I had this rather faint memory of something more procedural, with lots of stars cancelling each other out. But when I saw it again, it had nothing of that. Rather, it felt like a contemporary ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA (big words, I know). A big epic fable, wrapped in a very real, gritty, down-to-earth American setting; about spirituality, sacrifice, revenge, loyalty etc. If Williams ever adapted to a more contemporary style, some tracks here are about as close as he got (like "The Football Game" or the end of "Last Night at Wilkinson"). Amer, Miguel Andrade and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,043 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think I saw the film once in the 90s; Don't remember much about it. I will definitely watch it again some day. That cast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thx99 1,736 Posted March 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 57 minutes ago, TownerFan said: The gorgeous end title setting of the main theme ("Hell's Kitchen") always made me think of Williams channeling Lenny Bernstein's On the Waterfront. Great observation, @TownerFan!! That end title sequence is worth the price of admission alone, though you really need to watch the entire film to fully appreciate the emotional payoff, IMO. Williams nailed the mood of the scene... TownerFan, Amer, Incanus and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Incanus 5,713 Posted March 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 Ah that flute solo. Gets to me every time. So poignant, so fragile yet so hopeful. And all the more powerful after all the darkness that has preceded it. Williams is a master of such denouements. crumbs, Amer, ins and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 891 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The surprise inclusion of "Hell's Kitchen" as one of the encore pieces at Williams' 1998 London concerts was one of the highlights of the night. I don't he's performed it much in concert since, if at all. Cerebral Cortex and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Solid common or garden 90's Williams score. Very accomplished but doesn't get much airtime here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,251 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Wonderful score. I've watched the film just a couple of times (at the original theater run and later on DVD) and can't recall much of the score in it, though I do recall having liked it a lot. On disc might not be one of the easier ones to get through, but surely is a greatly rewarding one when you get to the end of it. Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 It's kind of the definition of a three-star score for me. There's nothing in it that I'd say is bad, but nothing in it that really moves me, either. That said, it does seem to grow on me a bit every time I listen to it (which is once or twice a year). So I'm sure there is plenty there that I'm just not paying sufficient attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,251 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 6 hours ago, TownerFan said: The gorgeous end title setting of the main theme ("Hell's Kitchen") always made me think of Williams channeling Lenny Bernstein's On the Waterfront. What an interesting connection. Love both scores but never thought of it. TownerFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,449 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 hours ago, pete said: The surprise inclusion of "Hell's Kitchen" as one of the encore pieces at Williams' 1998 London concerts was one of the highlights of the night. I don't he's performed it much in concert since, if at all. Were you there, too, pete? Cool! It was a nice surprise, wasn't it? Was Oliver Ford Davies narrating THE COWBOYS, at the same concert? pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,268 Posted March 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2017 It probably is my all time favorite JW score. I can't praise it enough. I'm reposting here something from 6 months ago that elaborates a little bit on my feelings about this score Sleepers, by John Williams Now, this might come across as an hipster declaration, but this might actually be my favorite JW score. It contains a sonic environment totally of its own (I would reckon it's one of JW's score with less relatives) and allows us to trully comunicate with the music, in a similar fashion of what TheWhiteRider described concering the Brian Eno album. It's not that the music is nondescript (far from it), but conveys such an array of complex, undefinable and even paradoxal emotions, that the music needs the input of the listener to actually make some sort of sense. It's a score that sounds Autumnal. It sounds urban. It sounds innocent. It sounds desperate. It sounds violent. It sounds spiritual. It sounds triumphant. It's one of the most encompassing scores ever written. As fantastic this score is when the full OST is heard (and that's the only way the score actually comes to fruition and makes sense), I adore so many individual moments in this thing: The dreary, frightful ostinato (is it really an ostinato?) heard in the first track and at Last Night at Wilkinson (the first part of that track is alto terrific): The wonderful dissonance on the brass on Hell's Kitchen: The fury and propulsion of The Football Match (best appreciated in this video with the remaining audio removed): And so many others, like the full Saying the Rosary, or the theme that opens both Father Bobby's Decision and Last Night at Wilkinson. This score is an absolute gem. Regardless of me highlighting several passages, the OST must absolutely be heard in full. I hope somebody picks up this post and elaborates on this score in a much more thoughtful and eloquent way than I could ever be able to Amer, Incanus, TownerFan and 7 others 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I respect your opinion, but I don't share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,385 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Very well said, Romao. I agree wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 891 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Richard said: Were you there, too, pete? Cool! It was a nice surprise, wasn't it? Was Oliver Ford Davies narrating THE COWBOYS, at the same concert? I sure was, and it was a great experience^. I recall the Hell's Kitchen encore was performed just the first two nights. The Reivers with narration, The Cowboys, the Tuba Concerto were performed on the final two nights with different encores. I think Schindler's List was one of the encore pieces over the last two nights, and it was in the program proper for the first two. I got tickets for each night as well as the open rehearsal on the Friday morning. I thought it would be my only chance to see Williams in concert. Since I live in Korea these days, that's proven to be true so far^. TownerFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,385 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Isn't that the last time Williams was in Europe (for concerts)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 891 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I believe so. I don't recall hearing of concerts in the U.K. and Europe after 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,839 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This score never clicked with me though I like the music better outside of the film. In the film itself I find the score out of place. During various scenes including the football sequence and the ending at the courthouse, I consistently got the feeling that this movie wasn't suited for a full orchestral score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,071 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Great Gem of score which is actually quite underrated. And one of my favourite drama scores. This was one of the most rewarding and enjoyable scores by Williams( in his subliminal dark mode). I really cant really describe it but @Romão has described as 'Autumnal' and 'urban' - and this is just apt description. Its also a very moody score and not sunny or bright as we usually expect from Williams. When I'm in my most depressive moments I play this to sooth myself. It works. The film is also great and I bought a copy from a store in Hell's Kitchen, NY ! i love playing ' The Trip To Wilkinson' during a foggy road trip. By the way, I find 'The Football Game' driving ostinato rhythms akin to 'The Hunt' from THE LOST WORLD. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,449 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 10 hours ago, Thor said: Isn't that the last time Williams was in Europe (for concerts)? 9 hours ago, pete said: I believe so. I don't recall hearing of concerts in the U.K. and Europe after 1998. I can confirm that yes, it was, unfortunately Whether he did secret concerts in 2002/2004/2005 is anyone's guess, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Incanus 5,713 Posted March 24, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2017 The score is among my favourite 1990's Williams scores. It took a while for it to click with me but I consider it a very unique entry in his discography, a dark and gritty urban drama with the unusually grim side of Americana the composer has rarely had the opportunity to unleash. While the moody nature might turn people off as they consider it to be too much on the one note, I urge them to listen again as there is variety here from the driving Football Game to the haunting Saying the Rosary and wonderfully atmospheric dream-like Learning the Hard Way (Williams creating the sound of a past screetching subway train/the sheer shock and horror in this cue is amazing). The solo parts for flute by Janet Ferguson and for horn by Williams soloist of choice James Thatcher are important part of the music as well, the former the depiction of fragile innoncence and lyricism and the latter the very voice in the wilderness, the sad lonely evocation of isolation, haunted past and solitude. I love the little woodwind sections in this score that Williams writes for e.g. bassoons and flutes and as I said before the dramatic arc is all the more potent when we get through all the darker grittier material to the Reunion and Finale where the redemption begins. A wonderful and an entirely different Williams score. crumbs, KK, Not Mr. Big and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,304 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Sleepers is a fantastic score and a 90s gem. It features many Williams' best writing traits. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It's a well-deserved breath from the splashy stuff - a dreaded career phase for the Star Wars crowd - but gets a point subtracted for a lack of coherence. That tends to be a problem with the albums after 'Nixon' & Co: great (sometimes indifferent) moments joined together into 3 or 4 minute cues but since they're glued to on-screen images the whole thing feels less than the sum of its parts. Frankly, scores like this would profit more from a formal musical adaption than the xth Flag Parade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Thor said: Isn't that the last time Williams was in Europe (for concerts)? Yes, the last concert held in Europe. He however returned of course to record Star Wars prequels and Harry Potter scores. In 2005 he promised a series of concerts with the LSO to their management, but he canceled because he had return in LA to start working on War of the Worlds. 12 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said: What an interesting connection. Love both scores but never thought of it. I think it's more eloquent in the end title setting of the main theme, especially in the kind of Copland-esque chromaticism that JW always loved so much (and Lenny too), but also on the style of orchestration. Since the end title suites always have been for JW the opportunity to put in pure musical terms the film's underlying subjects and overall dramatic sense (at least in broad terms), I think he might have seen in this New York drama a sort of contemporary setting of some of On the Waterfront's themes (redemption, emancipation, etc.) Miguel Andrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,205 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I didn't like this music much when I bought the CD the year it was released. Few years ago I purchased the film on Blu-ray and now I love the music, and the film is still very enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 "Last Night at Wilkinson" made me almost depressive for one day, which is no joke. It's the only Williams score with that capability. The string climax in "Time in Solidary" is awesome! One of his most intense violin moments. (The only more intense one occurs in "Rosewood".) Extremely underrated!!! The OST is also totally sufficient! 56 minutes and I really don't know what could be missing. Maybe nothing, but surely nothing important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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