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The Patriot (John Williams)


Thor

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2 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

 

The Day After Tomorrow is also terrific entertainment, probably Emmerich's best, and I'm not sure it's close.

 

It's so agreeably goofy.  Fun movie. Same for White House Down which I think is one of his best.

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One of the things I love about directors like Roland Emmerich (and even his German colleague Wolfgang Petersen) is how he plays around with American "patriotism tropes"; usually under the guise of surface entertainment. It's actually very subversive. He's also brilliant at narrative builds (from early exposition to 'mayhem' to aftermath), ticking off all the genre boxes while keeping the audience at the edge of their seats. There is rarely much depth to the characters, but almost always a defined arc -- and you care for them because he's so good at creating 'situations'.

 

I could defend directors like Emmerich and Bay all day long; far too often dismissed for all the wrong reasons. Same with 'action auteurs' like Neil Marshall, Paul W.S. Anderson, David Twohy, Stephen Sommers and a few more.

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8 minutes ago, Thor said:

One of the things I love about directors like Roland Emmerich (and even his German colleague Wolfgang Petersen) is how he plays around with American "patriotism tropes"; usually under the guise of surface entertainment. It's actually very subversive. He's also brilliant at narrative builds (from early exposition to 'mayhem' to aftermath), ticking off all the genre boxes while keeping the audience at the edge of their seats. There is rarely much depth to the characters, but almost always a defined arc -- and you care for them because he's so good at creating 'situations'.

 

I could defend directors like Emmerich and Bay all day long; far too often dismissed for all the wrong reasons. Same with 'action auteurs' like Neil Marshall, Paul W.S. Anderson, David Twohy, Stephen Sommers and a few more.

 

Do you know the term "vulgar auteurism"?  It's a recent critical movement that sounds like you'd be a fan of.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgar_auteurism

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6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Do you know the term "vulgar auteurism"?  It's a recent critical movement that sounds like you'd be a fan of.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgar_auteurism

 

Yes, I am, and I am a keen supporter of its basis, although less of the term itself, which has too negative connotations. I'm not concerned with the "Uwe Boll"-type vulgarism, but more with the directors who are actually good filmmakers.

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3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky is probably my favorite critic who subscribes to the movement.  Great writer.

 

Agreed!

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45 minutes ago, Thor said:

One of the things I love about directors like Roland Emmerich (and even his German colleague Wolfgang Petersen) is how he plays around with American "patriotism tropes"; usually under the guise of surface entertainment. It's actually very subversive. He's also brilliant at narrative builds (from early exposition to 'mayhem' to aftermath), ticking off all the genre boxes while keeping the audience at the edge of their seats. There is rarely much depth to the characters, but almost always a defined arc -- and you care for them because he's so good at creating 'situations'.

 

I could defend directors like Emmerich and Bay all day long; far too often dismissed for all the wrong reasons. Same with 'action auteurs' like Neil Marshall, Paul W.S. Anderson, David Twohy, Stephen Sommers and a few more.

Well, even Michael Bay has made one really interesting action movie that deals with international and absolute network in a critical way.

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7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

You have to look no further than the beginning of this week:

 

Even the Mancini piece i wrote yesterday. 

 

I guess Thor just watches too many movies and likewise hangs out with too many guys that affirm even his most dubious instincts. But now i know that the fucking 'Patriot' is elated to the valhalla of 'vulgar auteurism' (must be pretty crowded up there) i of course will give it another fresh look just to see how subversive and fun it really is.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky is probably my favorite critic who subscribes to the movement.  Great writer.

 

Armond White's another (ablate selective), although he'd probably object to the term for similar reasons to Thor.

 

I like "pop auteurism."

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On Thursday, May 04, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Brundlefly said:

Well, even Michael Bay has made one really interesting action movie that deals with international and absolute network in a critical way.

Transformers, right?;)

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19 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Let's say Michael Bay for "Transformers" and "The Island" and Roland Emmerich for "The Patriot" and "The Day After Tomorrow".

If you're listing Transformers, I'll list Armageddon! As silly as that is, I do still find it massively entertaining. :P

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27 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

But are you laughing with it, or at it?

For maximum entertainment value, do both at the same time! ;)

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  • 2 months later...

Lockhart's performance of the "Theme from The Patriot" on the new Lights, Camera, Music cd is really phenomenal.  I can't get enough of it -- but I have been hoping for a decent recording of the Signature Edition.  This has finally appeared on the Japan Philharmonic's new "Film Spectacular" cd set.  Check it out!

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  • 1 year later...

Anyone want to take a stab at how much unreleased music this score has? Here's the cue list (I've highlighted any cue that I think correlates with an OST track, but obviously that isn't a scientific analysis considering Williams' assemblies).

 

1m3 The Patriot
1m4 The North Star
1m5 The Letter Scene
1m6 Martin and Charlotte
1m7 Yankee Dances
2m1 Addressing the Assembly
2m2 
2m2A 
2m3Rev The Defeat at Charleston
2m3 The Defeat at Charleston
2m4 Remembering Fort Wilderness
2m5 Walking Among the Fallen
2m6-7 Redcoats in the Cornfield
3m1 (Insert) Into the Burning House
3m1 The Death of Thomas
3m2 The First Ambush
3m3 After the Ambush

3m4Rev Martin and Sons
3m5 Martin Leaves the Family
4m1
4m3 Reading the War Map
4m4 The Colonel and the Corporal
4m5A Anne’s Speech in the Church
4m6 The Tavern
4m7 More Tavern
4m8 Rough Fighter Recruited
4m9 Villeneuve’s Training
5m1 At Camp
5m4 Ann and Gabriel
5m5 Ann and Gabriel Part
5m6 Tavington’s Ambush
5m7 Remembering the Wilderness

5m8 Martin to the Stockade
6m1 Fort Drums
6m2 Tavington vs Martin
6m3
6m4 Tavington to the Plantation
6m5 Burning the Plantation
6m6 To Gullah Maroon
7m1 Burnt-Out Homes
7m2 Susan and Father
7m3 The Wedding
7m4 Ann’s Wedding
8m7/8 Preparing for Battle
9m1A The British Counter-Attack
End Credits

 

For comparison's sake, here's the OST tracklist:

1. "The Patriot" 6:39
2. "The Family Farm" 3:04
3. "To Charleston" 2:15
4. "The Colonial Cause" 3:15
5. "Redcoats at the Farm and the Death of Thomas" 4:59
6. "Ann Recruits the Parishioners" 3:09
7. "Preparing For Battle" 5:50
8. "Ann and Gabriel" 4:35
9. "The First Ambush and Remembering the Wilderness" 4:00
10. "Tavington's Trap" 4:10
11. "Burning of the Plantation" 4:55
12. "Facing the British Lines" 3:05
13. "The Parish Church Aflame" 3:03
14. "Susan Speaks" 3:17
15. "Martin vs. Tavington" 3:06
16. "Yorktown and the Return Home" 5:20
17. "The Patriot (Reprise)"

7:50

 

EDIT: Oops, there's an analysis here!

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Maybe it's got something to do with when it came out? It's sandwiched between Phantom Menace and Philosopher's Stone so I suppose it's easy to overlook for a lot of people. I've always liked the score for The Patriot but I do tend to forget about it a lot.

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It's nothing anyone should spend too much time with, but a few of the quieter cues and the love theme sell it. The 'patriot' material is Williams in his worst populist mode, but it does Emmerich's picture right.

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11 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I agree with the auto-pilot argument. It's Williams' meh-score of the 2000s. The BFG, Far & Away, SpaceCamp and Midway are cover the other decades.

 

The flutes can't play this score on the auto-pilot mode at least...

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3 hours ago, publicist said:

It's nothing anyone should spend too much time with, but a few of the quieter cues and the love theme sell it. The 'patriot' material is Williams in his worst populist mode, but it does Emmerich's picture right.

Oh it is a painfully formulaic score, that's right. But even the patriotic brassy stuff is a lot of fun. If you can forgive its lack of subtlety, of course.

 

Karol

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But it comes with a baggage of stuffy 'weighty' string lamenting that kills the fun. You can instantly tell how awful the movie must be with the jolly fife-and-drum fun and the thick adagios because they are so schizophrenic in unison. 

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2 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

I agree with the auto-pilot argument. It's Williams' meh-score of the 2000s. The BFG, Far & Away, SpaceCamp and Midway are cover the other decades.

The Patriot is not meh.

Far and Away is not meh.  It is a masterpiece, or almost one.

The BFG is not really meh.

SpaceCamp sounds more than meh.

Midway, that sounds a bit autopiloty. 

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Yeah, if you think about it, it's a clash of Williams' dignified Lincoln with his very unsubtle Olympic music. But hey, at least it makes an entertaining and varied album.

.

Karol

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6 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, if you think about it, it's a clash of Williams' dignified Lincoln with his very unsubtle Olympic music. But hey, at least it makes an entertaining and varied album.

.

Karol

I think Williams really was on to something in the Patriot.  Not just about the movie, he seems to be saying something about the revolution itself, and the tension between the nobility of ideas and intensity of passions inherent in the American Revolution in particular. 

  

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I can be so pretentious, I know.  But Williams did mention in interviews that he took the project with something in mind, that the American public did not know enough about the Revolution.  

Certainly the film does not provide that, though.

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3 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

Far and Away is not meh.  It is a masterpiece, or almost one.

Certainly not.

2 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

I think Williams really was on to something in the Patriot.  Not just about the movie, he seems to be saying something about the revolution itself, and the tension between the nobility of ideas and intensity of passions inherent in the American Revolution in particular.

Whatever... Passion doesn't equal quality and talent.

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42 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Certainly not.

Whatever... Passion doesn't equal quality and talent.

Do you argue that the themes in Far and Away are not top notch?  Certainly they could have been used a bit better, but they appear very well crafted to me.  The Land Race is a great cue.

I hear only quality. 

As for passion, I mean of passions, emotions.  The patriotic material in score is very straightforward, and that is intentional.  It is done well.  Again, quality. 

Williams cared about the project.  So, I can't say he did it on auto-pilot, and I can't say he did not bring his talent to the game.  And, to me, the score speaks of this too.  

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I've always enjoyed The Patriot. It might be because I really became serious about John Williams and wanting to seek out all his music around 1999, coinciding with TPM, and The Patriot came up not long afterward. 

 

That being said, I feel like I might have liked a David Arnold 'The Patriot' even more...maybe? 

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44 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I wonder if Arnold ever repurposed his unused themes? 

 

I've wondered that too, but can't really see any project where that particular idiom would presumably be appropriate. THE MUSKEETER, maybe? CHRONICLES OF NARNIA?

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