bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 10/2/2019 at 8:57 AM, Thor said: Perhaps, but I consider that particular score -- THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW -- the best in the Emmerich/Kloser(/Wander) collaboration. It's the only good film from Emmerich. Only a Thor could like PATRIDIOT😊. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 It's fun escapism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 @BrotherSound how much music would those 20 unreleased cues contain? Are the minutes calculable? I'm hopeful LLL have this up their sleeve for BF. It's the 20th Anniversary, no obvious licensing hurdles to contend with, and they've expanded Emmerich films in the past (so Centropolis must be AOK with score expansions). They also mentioned in that recent video that they're trying to make some anniversary deadlines this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I'd listen to the complete version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 54 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's fun escapism. Well it sure ain't history..." Fun"?!😳 8 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: I'd listen to the complete version. I doubt you'd stay awake long enough. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Zzzzzzz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 TDAT was an awful sign of things to come. Boring as hell, and 10,000BC, 2012, White House Down and Independence Day 2 were even worse. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: TDAT was an awful sign of things to come. Boring as hell, and 10,000BC, 2012, White House Down and Independence Day 2 were even worse. You just don't like DAT because you think global climate change is a " hoax" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, bruce marshall said: You just don't like DAT because you think global climate change is a " hoax" I wasn't aware of all this global warming hoax stuff in 2004 when I saw it. I just thought the movie was boring and mediocre. Lacked excitement, it felt dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 It's a boring teen movie from the early 2000s that's always playing on hotel TVs. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said: I wasn't aware of all this global warming hoax stuff in 2004 .... But, you are now?.Hmmm.... I wonder why that might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 He isn't even now. When @Thor started this thread, I wonder if he realised it would derail into global warming and expansion talk. bruce marshall and Unlucky Bastard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: He isn't even now Well, he is aware of the claim that it's a hoax; he believes 😝he believes every word his ' master' spews out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 bruce marshall is a hoax! Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: It's a boring teen movie from the early 2000s that's always playing on hotel TVs. Why do you spend so much time in hotels? Oh! I get it. [ wink, wink. nudge, nudge]😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 12 hours ago, crumbs said: @BrotherSound how much music would those 20 unreleased cues contain? Are the minutes calculable? Sure, I can make a rough estimate, especially since a number of the unreleased cues are used in complete form in the film, with the usual caveat that we don't exactly what was actually recorded or not if it's not used in the film or OST: Unreleased orchestral cues from The Patriot: 1M4 The North Star 1:45 Gorgeous, one of the highlights of the unreleased material. 1M6 Martin and Charlotte 0:30 Unused. Similar to the ending of 1M5 The Letter Scene/“To Charleston” 2M1 Addressing the Assembly 1:30 2M3 Rev - The Defeat at Charlestown 2:50 Unsure if original (unrevised) version was recorded. 2M4 Remembering Fort Wilderness 0:30 2M5 Walking Along the Fallen 0:50 2M6-7 Redcoats in the Cornfield 0:45 3M1 The Death of Thomas Roughly the last 1:30 replaced by 3M1 Insert 3M4 Rev - Martin and Sons 0:55 3M5 Martin Leaves the Family 2:05 Another low-key gem 4M3 Reading the War Map 0:50 Clarinet solo originally written as horn. 4M4 The Colonel and the Corporal 1:30 Unused, replaced by tracked music. 4M8 Rough Fighter Recruited 1:00 Unused, replaced by tracked music. 5M8 Martin to the Stockade 1:30 6M2 Tavington vs. Martin 1:30 6M6 To Gullah Maroon 2:00 Partially unused. 7M1 Burnt-out Homes 1:00 7M2 Susan and Father 1:30 Very similar to whatever cue is the first half of "Susan Speaks" (7M5?), except with harp accompaniment in place of guitar. 7M3 The Wedding 2:40 7M7 The Parisians Return 1:30 Except for a brief section in the middle, mostly tracked over. 7M9 Burnt Out Church 1:15 8M2? 2:30 8M3+4 The Death of Gabriel 4:45 Only the first 40 seconds was used. 8M6 New - New Intro 0:30 Unused 9M2A The British Counter-attack First 30 seconds or so unreleased. 9M2AX Over the Top 0:45 Unused Total: Approximately 38 minutes And I imagine the various source cues would add another 10 minutes or more. It would definitely nicely fill out a 2-disc set! 13 hours ago, crumbs said: I'm hopeful LLL have this up their sleeve for BF. It's the 20th Anniversary, no obvious licensing hurdles to contend with, and they've expanded Emmerich films in the past (so Centropolis must be AOK with score expansions). Oh, good point! Plus, Sony thankfully doesn't seem to be a problem for LLL any more, and they still haven't announced those two titles from before the deadline anyway. Brundlefly, Edmilson, Holko and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Those 2 titles you are referring to were two titles they licensed from Sony Music, and Sony Music had nothing to do with The Patriot BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,441 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I have a doubt. If 1M5 is "The Letter Scene", which cue would be the music for that scene at the beginning of the movie when Gabriel goes to war and writes a letter to his family, which is read in voice over? If I remember correctly, the music is a little similar to "Yorktown and Return Home", but a little sadder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Edmilson said: I have a doubt. If 1M5 is "The Letter Scene", which cue would be the music for that scene at the beginning of the movie when Gabriel goes to war and writes a letter to his family, which is read in voice over? If I remember correctly, the music is a little similar to "Yorktown and Return Home", but a little sadder. The scene where Gabriel reads the letter is scored by 2M3 Rev - The Defeat at Charleston. And yes, it's a sad but lovely bit of music. The OST contains the entirety of 1M5 The Letter Scene in the track "To Charleston", which scores the scene where they open the letter with the invitation to the assembly and travel to Charleston, before Gabriel has enlisted. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 Still #1 on my Williams non Indy/SW wish list for expansion Darth Porkins, crumbs and BrotherSound 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,359 Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 Really? Of all the non Indy, non SW Williams scores, I'd much rather have a complete Tintin, Lincoln, Geisha, Amistad, and Hook before The Patriot crumbs, Gurkensalat, filmmusic and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,441 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 The Patriot is my number 1 most desired expansion, even considering the Indies and Star Warses. Trust me, this score will sound amazing in complete form! BrotherSound and Amer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Oh don't get me wrong, I like the score and would love an expansion, I just like those other scores even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Out of the ones you listed, only Hook is more desirable than The Patriot, and even then, we're missing so much more from The Patriot. Not Mr. Big and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,441 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Yeah, 40 minutes of unreleased music is too much. I imagine only Tintin and Amistad are missing more music (not counting IJ and SW), and the former is only because JW pratically scored the movie twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I think part of it is most of what wasn't on the OST for The Patriot, you can at least hear in the film; With Tintin, we know there's tons of music that got completely replaced so we haven't heard a drop of. Chewy and Gurkensalat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I'd say 1)Patriot .Missing so much music 2)Tintin . I feel this would be a better listening experience complete but overall like it less than Patriot Hook is sort of fine as it it . Mix good sound bootleg and LLL is ok. Did a good enough edit of the feast insert using the Concorde boot segment (appears twice on the boot, one of them is easier to edit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 We already have the complete scores on the OSTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 On 9/1/2020 at 9:53 PM, Jay said: Really? Of all the non Indy, non SW Williams scores, I'd much rather have a complete Tintin, Lincoln, Geisha, Amistad, and Hook before The Patriot Why the fuck is Lincoln on that list?! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: Why the fuck is Lincoln on that list?! Because, " ITS NOT COMPLETE!" 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 6:43 PM, Brundlefly said: Why the fuck is Lincoln on that list?! Why so rude with the question? Damn. Anyway, what are you even trying to ask me? crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Porkins 53 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 The LLL Hook is perfect for me. I love it just the way it is. An expanded Patriot would be fantastic! Its a great score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Darth Porkins said: The LLL Hook is perfect for me. I love it just the way it is..... You're not welcome here-😠😵 WWeirdo .😉 😅 Darth Porkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/1/2020 at 9:53 PM, Jay said: Really? Of all the non Indy, non SW Williams scores, I'd much rather have a complete Tintin, Lincoln, Geisha, Amistad, and Hook before The Patriot I'm sure there's some music missing but my understanding was that Lincoln is pretty much complete (OST and FYC). I'll prefer also Tintin than The Patriot, but I'll happily buy any of these if/when they're released. Memoirs of a Geisha is also a wonderful score, but again I'm not very familiar with the amount of music missing in the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Jay said: Why so rude with the question? Damn. Anyway, what are you even trying to ask me? I wasn't trying to sound rude, but instead to express my level of confusion. Although Lincoln is my favourite score from the 2010s, I see no reason to expand it. It is pretty much complete. From that era War Horse would be a much more worthwhile candidate for an expansion. Nevermind, I don't think of or expect any expansions of the post-2005 scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I wasn't trying to sound rude, but instead to express my level of confusion. Although Lincoln is my favourite score from the 2010s, I see no reason to expand it. It is pretty much complete. Ah OK it didn't come across that way. Really, I was just expressing my personal preference; Currently, I like Lincoln's score more than The Patriot's score, do I'd rather have an expanded Lincoln on my shelf than an expanded The Patriot; Simple as that. To be clear, I like both scores, and want expanded versions of both (I want complete versions of every score JW ever wrote!), I was simply stating a personal preference. I think the Lincoln score is really REALLY good, and I want all of it! I like The Patriot's score, but I rarely listen to it; maybe I just haven't connected with it yet. I saw the film once in theaters 20 years ago and don't remember much about it, and have not sat down and checked out the music that isn't on the OST to see how it would alter the experience. In fact with some scores I purposely don't do this, so that the eventual expanded release is a cool new revelation instead of just "exactly what I already know, just without sound effects now". And nah, it's not fair to say that between the FYC and OST, Lincoln is basically complete; We do of course have most of the music we know about (IE, music we can hear in the film or on the OST), but there are 5 scenes in the movie with original JW music we don't have, and there is also tons of music recorded that both isn't on the OST OR in the film so we've literally never heard it. I think a Lincoln expansion would be a great new musical adventure to go on. 5 hours ago, Brundlefly said: From that era War Horse would be a much more worthwhile candidate for an expansion. Nevermind, I don't think of or expect any expansions of the post-2005 scores. I'm sure that stupid fee structure will get modified at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jay said: I'm sure that stupid fee structure will get modified at some point It seems crazy there doesn't even appear to be a fee reduction every X years post-recording, say 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, etc. Memoirs of a Geisha was recorded 15 years ago but my understanding is that musician fees for an expansion would cost the same as hiring the orchestra back in 2005 (and that's not even factoring in costs for the composer or studios). Didn't the previous structure work on a sliding scale of cost reductions every 5-10 years? Hence the surplus of expansions that coincided with milestone anniversaries. Theoretically we could have seen a Lincoln expansion in two years if that was still in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Here's Mike Matessino's explanation if that helps On 12/1/2019 at 12:31 PM, Jay said: For AFM recordings made before July 3, 2005, NO reuse needs to be paid to the musicians at all, provided a) that it’s for a physical format release with a 5000 unit maximum, and b) that the musicians list is published, preferably in the packaging. For recordings made after that date, whatever the musicians were paid to record the score for the film has to be paid to them again, 100%. That’s why it’s called “reuse”. They were paid to play music for sync purposes, but an album is a new use. So, hypothetically, if 120 people were paid $360,000 to record the music for the film (musicians, orchestrators, copyists, at an average of $3K a person), then a label would have to pay that exact same amount to AFM in order to put out an expanded album. That makes it impossible to consider even before you get to licensing, publishing, production and manufacturing. The 2005 date was established in 2015 and applied to recordings going back 10 years prior, but unfortunately it was not a “sliding” date as it really should have been. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Here's a really dumb question that has no relevance to anything - if the performer is deceased, does that pay out to their estate/family? Like, in 2116 when they do the "The Force Awakens 100th Anniversary Score Album," would DisneyExxon still pay $360,000 to estates? bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 In 2116 the score will be public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 If you read what Mike says, he said the label would have to pay the AFM, not track down and pay each member individually. So, it seems the AFM itself would have some system in place for where money goes when the performers are diseased, and that death doesn't affect what a label would have to pay to the AFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I must be talking about the 90th Anniversary release in 2106 (which was missing the Schwam cue, hence the necessity of a 100th anniversary release) DrTenma and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I wasn't trying to sound rude, but instead to express my level of confusion. Although Lincoln is my favourite score from the 2010s, I see no reason to expand it. It is pretty much complete. 1 hour ago, Jay said: And nah, it's not fair to say that between the FYC and OST, Lincoln is basically complete; We do of course have most of the music we know about (IE, music we can hear in the film or on the OST), but there are 5 scenes in the movie with original JW music we don't have, and there is also tons of music recorded that both isn't on the OST OR in the film so we've literally never heard it. I think a Lincoln expansion would be a great new musical adventure to go on. There should be at least 20 minutes unreleased, and potentially as much as 35, depending on which alternates were recorded or not. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jay said: If you read what Mike says, he said the label would have to pay the AFM, not track down and pay each member individually. So, it seems the AFM itself would have some system in place for where money goes when the performers are diseased, and that doesn't affect what a label would have to pay to the AFM Interesting! Obviously it won't affect us in one way or another since we'd be long gone before those chickens come home to roost (and honestly the amount any score would get "reused" after the initial 10 year post-recording window, especially at that cost, would be negligible). It almost seems like they negotiated themselves OUT of money in this circumstance, asking for so much that nobody can afford to reuse the music at all. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Exactly! Which is why I think that fee system will be changed at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 53 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: In 2116 the score will be public domain. Dont set your watch. Last time Disney got the Copyright law extendedd-again!😠 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,107 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 14 hours ago, Jay said: And nah, it's not fair to say that between the FYC and OST, Lincoln is basically complete; We do of course have most of the music we know about (IE, music we can hear in the film or on the OST), but there are 5 scenes in the movie with original JW music we don't have, and there is also tons of music recorded that both isn't on the OST OR in the film so we've literally never heard it. I think a Lincoln expansion would be a great new musical adventure to go on. Agreed and I too would be in favour of LINCOLN as its a very simple but multi layered score. It grows on you rapidly. Speaking of unrleased music I believe Williams did mention in an interview they recorded many hours of music before settling on the right cues. So we can expect many alternates here. (Dont remember which interview article it was at the moment but I do remember disntinctly it was a print interview) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted February 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2021 Updated my cue list and breakdown with some previously unknown cue titles, from the SESAC Repertory: Gabriel's Last Fight Gabriel Mortally Wounded Susan Speaks Rev 2 On To Yorktown Corellian2019, crumbs and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,074 Posted February 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2021 What about Gabriel's oboe? BrotherSound, bruce marshall, crumbs and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 4 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Gabriel Mortally Wounded Great cue BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now