Star Wars: The Last Jedi scoring sessions resume in Los Angeles

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Thanks a lot for sharing that with us, Dom. That's awesome you got that experience. Thanks for taking advantage of it to ask the important questions. Too cool. 

[DominicCobb 194]

Yes, very cool and very real (and I know, very hard to believe, for myself included!). I initially wasn't going to ask him anything at all (obviously there's so much he can't say and so much I wouldn't even want to know until I saw the film anyway), but I had to just ask something about the experience of it all, and I knew that for me getting to work with JW would be the most absolutely insane aspect of it all and probably the most rewarding thing as a Star Wars fan (in my opinion). So yeah, it was awesome just to get a sense from him what it was like, he just seemed really honestly enthused about it (he wasn't just blandly saying that JW is great or whatever, his eyes really lit up when I mentioned the name) and about working on the film in general. 

[crumbs 14,306]

I'm sure it was a refreshing question after what he's usually asked. "Is Luke gonna have a lightsaber fight with his green lightsaber!?!"

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,306]

Does Luke teach Rey how to use the Force?!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

I bet that's what he really thinks and he's just memorized JJ Abrams and Steven Spielberg's interviews on Williams to save face!

 

"John has outdone himself again..."

[Incanus 5,714]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

 

"John has outdone himself again..."

Or like Alan Parker said: "If I sound too gushing, I make no apologies; the man is brilliant."

[Will 2,215]

Thanks for the report, @DominicCobb! 

[crumbs 14,306]

Does anyone else hope Williams has re-recorded the Main Title?

 

No slight against Gustavo's conducting on TFA, but that recording just didn't cut the mustard. Call it a combination of factors but the opening note really throws out the balance of the whole track.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Alex 2,835]

It really lacked that big Maurice Murphy trumpet blast

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Williams has replaced it with "Rey's Theme" actually.  In fact, the entire score, from beginning to end, is "Rey's Theme."  At the end, you hear Williams steal a microphone and yell "Love you Daisy!  Love you 4eva!"  Amazingly, Disney releases it in this state.

[crumbs 14,306]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

It's because of the orchestra, not the conductor! Bring back the LSO! And re-record TFA, while you're at it!

 

TFA is fine overall, no issue with the excellent performances.

 

I can't even pinpoint why the TFA Main Titles feel underwhelming to me, other than the obvious opening note thing. I feel the same about the Raiders March performance from KOTCS. Is it the modern recording equipment or the different performance? Digital vs analogue? Something intangible feels less 'warm' in both instances, whether the recording, performance or otherwise.

 

In the TFA SWO podcast, David Collins had some interesting thoughts on what he felt happened with the TFA recording, but ultimately seemed a bit perplexed.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I assume Williams will record new versions of his main theme for every film.

 

Reusing the TPM one for the other two just seems like something only an emotional autist like Lucas would do.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Lucas paid for those films out of his own pocket!  Every little bit of savings helps!

[crumbs 14,306]

Yeah, presumably that was a time-saving exercise to fit in more rehearsals for the new cues -- why waste half a morning re-recording the Main Titles when the TPM version was basically note-perfect?

 

Hopefully with US musicians there's legal/contractual/union issues that disincentivize re-using existing recordings, or make re-recordings easier than filing the paperwork for re-use fees (presumably there have been some roster changes to the musicians involved).

 

He's also being given another luxurious recording schedule so there's seemingly no time-constraints, unlike with the LSO.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A morning for a 1 minute 30 seconds cue that everyone in the room must have played before?

[crumbs 14,306]

Half a morning. How long is a session, 3 hours? And the prequels were about 10 days of recording, so 2 sessions a day?

 

I've never really studied the cue recording breakdowns but I'm guessing they get through about 3 cues in each session, depending on length/complexity (or if JW intends it to be a feature track on the OST).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Quite a lot more than 3 actually 

[Jay 37,346]

Ah, to have been in that room, that March in '77, and watch that magic happen!

[crumbs 14,306]

Wow, that's impressive! Thanks for the breakdown, never seen it before.

 

I didn't even realise every 'take' sequentially builds from all previous takes for every cue, rather than being specific to each cue. I'd wondered why Williams needed 20 takes of Main Title to get it right. 

 

Is that still the convention for modern scores?

 

[Incanus 5,714]

7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Wow, that's impressive! Thanks for the breakdown, never seen it before.

You don't own the original RCA Victor Star Wars Special Edition soundtracks where it can be found then? The horror! The horror! 

[crumbs 14,306]

Nope.

 

I've got the 128kbps MP3s on my iPod though. They sound amazing through my Apple earphones!

[Jay 37,346]

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Is that still the convention for modern scores?

 

Of course!

 

EDIT: Here's a list of the slates used for Empire of the Sun.

 

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6800

[Incanus 5,714]

Just now, crumbs said:

Nope. I've got the 128kbps MP3s on my iPod though! They sound amazing through my Apple earphones!

Blasphemer!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Of course!

 

EDIT: Here's a list of the slates used for Empire of the Sun.

 

http://www.jwfan.com/?p=6800

 

Indeed. If the LSO didnt need to take a whole morning for the SW title crawl music in 1977 the famously efficient LA musicians won't either. They can probably sight-read that puppy and move on to the next take.

[Jay 37,346]

Huh?  You are not responding to the same line of discussion we are.  We're talking about the Take Numbers continuing to increase their numbers throughout the entire sessions, rather than resetting to Take #1 for each cue.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Jay said:

We're talking about the Take Numbers continuing to increase their numbers throughout the entire sessions, rather than resetting to Take #1 for each cue.

 

That seems to render the meaning of the word "take" meaningless.

[Jay 37,346]

How so?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

A take should mean how many times you've performed a single piece of music or film scene for a recording.  How is it useful to increase take numbers across cues?

[Jay 37,346]

That information is still easily figured out on the paperwork.

For example, during the morning session of March 5th 1977, this is what was recorded at  Anvil Studios

 

Takes 1-7 = 7 takes of 9M2 The Swashbucklers

Takes 8-10 = 3 takes of 7M1 New Is It a Bird?

Takes 11-15 = 5 takes of 9M3/10M1 Ben's Death

Takes 16-20 = 5 takes of the Main Title

Takes 21-23 = 3 takes of 3M1 Rev. The Princess Appears

 

Makes sense to me?  Maybe I'm not understanding what it is you think is inferior about this standard.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

9M2 Take 1

9M2 Take 2

7m1 Take 1

7m1 Take 2

 

That's what makes sense to me.

[Jay 37,346]

Yea, they think of it as Star Wars take 8 is the first take we did of 7M1.

Numbering recording sessions that way was actually immensely helpful in figuring out where tapes might be for a project I recently worked on that had over 400 takes!  It also helped realize what order certain things were recorded in, and why some inserts used in the film were different than versions used on the OST album, etc.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Ah, to have been in that room, that March in '77, and watch that magic happen!

 

It's always so surreal to me to look at a cue list for a classic score like that. All that great music just broken down into a daily to-do list.

 

I wonder when it hit each of them that they were recording something special. I know by the end of the first day I would have been excited to go back again and hear what else was coming, but I wonder when the scope of the thing would have begun to register. "Princess Leia's Theme" on the second day? "Burning Homestead" on the third day? I imagine "Throne Room" and "End Title" to begin the sixth day would have sealed the deal.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea, they think of it as Star Wars take 8 is the first take we did of 9M2.

Numbering recording sessions that way was actually immensely helpful in figuring out where tapes might be for a project I recently worked on that had over 400 takes!  It also helped realize what order certain things were recorded in, and why some inserts used in the film were different than versions used on the OST album, etc.

 

I certainly defer to you on this one.  I have never and will never undertake a project like that.

[Will 2,215]

Wow, I never realized the way takes are numbered either. I always thought there were 20 takes of the main title alone!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

8 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I wonder when it hit each of them that they were recording something special. 

 

It's funny you bring that up.  I was just this morning reading Charles Gerhardt's liner notes for his Star Wars/Close Encounters album from '78.  He had never recorded a modern film score at the time and he specifically says:

 

"I first heard the music of 'Star Wars' in March 1977 when John was in London recording his score for the picture with the London Symphony.  He conducted it himself and I immediately felt that here was a piece I wanted to perform in public and, even if there were a soundtrack album, to record myself.  There is something special about finding music written now that I want to perform."

[Jay 37,346]

14 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

It's always so surreal to me to look at a cue list for a classic score like that. All that great music just broken down into a daily to-do list.

 

I wonder when it hit each of them that they were recording something special. I know by the end of the first day I would have been excited to go back again and hear what else was coming, but I wonder when the scope of the thing would have begun to register. "Princess Leia's Theme" on the second day? "Burning Homestead" on the third day? I imagine "Throne Room" and "End Title" to begin the sixth day would have sealed the deal.

 

It still blows my mind that "Chasm Crossfire" was the very first cue they did, before even the main title.  Hearing the main theme trumpeting out in that cue alone would have sealed the deal for me as this being a unique score not like many other being written in the late 70s.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Will said:

Wow, I never realized the way takes are numbered either. I always thought there were 20 takes of the main title alone!

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

It's funny you bring that up.  I was just this morning reading Charles Gerhardt's liner notes for his Star Wars/Close Encounters album from '78.  He had never recorded a modern film score at the time and he specifically says:

 

"I first heard the music of 'Star Wars' in March 1977 when John was in London recording his score for the picture with the London Symphony.  He conducted it himself and I immediately felt that here was a piece I wanted to perform in public and, even if there were a soundtrack album, to record myself.  There is something special about finding music written now that I want to perform."

 

Ha, that's great!

[aviazn 273]

On 4/12/2017 at 1:55 AM, mrbellamy said:

I wonder when it hit each of them that they were recording something special.

 

It may never have hit some of them. True story (as best I can recall it):

 

When I was in high school, I went to Germany on an exchange program with a school in the town of Sigmaringen. One day, my exchange partner—who was as big a fan of Star Wars as I was—invited me to come along with him to his youth orchestra rehearsal after school. The reason I might be interested, he told me, was that their music director had played some brass instrument on some of the original Star Wars sessions with the LSO. "Ah yes, the old war stories," his dad snorted. "Always going on about his Star Wars glory days."

 

But that sounded terrific to me, so I went, and sat through their entirely unremarkable rehearsal of school band arrangements of some classical standards and The Lion King, and when it was over I went up to the director (whose name I've long since forgotten) and asked him if it was true, if he'd really played on the Star Wars sessions. Yes, he said—he'd been a university student in London 1977, and his teacher was an LSO member. Since Williams asked for double brass, several of the players brought their students.

 

Wide-eyed, I followed-up, "And did you guys know then how big the score was going to be?"

 

He sneered and said, "Nah, we had no idea because it was nothing original. It was just second-rate neoromantic rip-offs. Nobody thought it was going to be anything. You want to know what was really special? A few weeks later, I sat in on another session at Abbey Road…" and he proceeded to tell me about a jazz ensemble that recorded a tremendously innovative record (whose name now escapes me), full of bold lines and unconventional time signatures. I nodded along, trying to hide how crestfallen I was, and never got another word out of him about Star Wars.

 

As disappointed as 18-year-old me was, on its face, his recollection of the orchestra's reaction seemed plausible. Of course, it's entirely possible the guy is just a pretentious hater. Nevertheless, it always makes me think twice whenever I hear LSO players talking about how incredible it was to play on those sessions, and wonder how much of those glowing recollections are enhanced by time, and whether at the time they really thought anything much of John Williams at all.

 

And also, I wish I'd remembered the name of that jazz group.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Just another reason why recording in Hollywood is always the better choice. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

More versatility, to be sure.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

No, he's saying "Fuck those snobby Brits!"

[BloodBoal 7,538]

19 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

More versatility, to be sure.

 

Yes!

 

The Versatility Symphony Orchestra!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

No, he's saying "Fuck those snobby Brits!"

 

They are better than you though!

[crumbs 14,306]

On the subject of take numbers, the Force Awakens scoring featurette indicates that 1M1 (Main Titles) was take 756! I know TFA had an unusual scoring process but that's a staggering amount of takes for one film, is it not?

 

 

For all we know 1M1 wasn't even the last cue recorded (anyone know what sessions Gustavo conducted?) so the total takes might have been over 800. If JW averaged 5 takes per cue, that equates to about 160 cues written for TFA all up (including alternates, inserts, concert versions, etc.)

 

Makes you wonder how hard an expansion would be to assemble; that's a lot of music to sift through!

[Will 2,215]

Wow, @crumbs, I'd watched that video a lot but for some reason had never focused in on that take number (just the slate)!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/may-the-fourth-spotlight-on-joann-kane-music/

Quote

What Star Wars films have you been involved with?

I worked on the three prequels, Episode VII, and we’re just finishing up on Episode VIII now.

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I mean... yeah.  That's who Williams uses for every score.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Not Mr. Big was pointing out that the score is almost done.