Loert 2,511 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Post/discuss your favourite moments from JW's scores that specifically showcase his contrapuntal abilities (i.e. two or more melodies playing on top of each other). I'll start: the violins playing against the horns/woodwind in Hook's "Flight to Neverland": (1:55 - 2:08) Will and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2017 A recent favorite is this revised section from "A New Beginning." There's like 3 or 4 different melodic threads occurring at once, weaving in and around each other and it is glorious. 2:30 - 3:00 crumbs, curlytoot and Will 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,306 Posted June 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2017 The Imperial March and the Funeral Theme at the end of ROTS comes to mind (in the sequence with Vader overlooking the Death Star). curlytoot, aj_vader and Taikomochi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2017 artguy360, darkspine10, DominicCobb and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: ^This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 The end credits of Temple of Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1.31 s081186 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Are fugues part of this (wherein one line is put on top of another)? If so, Williams is a master at fugues, so plenty to choose from. airmanjerm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: That was the track I was missing most on the OST. Two of my favourites are the drawn out counterpoint in the extended Throne Room, and the brass stuff during the final repetition in Summon the Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 30-1:25 Padmes funeral immediately comes to mind. Best moment of the ROTS score and unreleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Thor said: Are fugues part of this (wherein one line is put on top of another)? If so, Williams is a master at fugues, so plenty to choose from. He hasn't written many outright fugues. More so fugato passages that emulate fugal expositions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Is the Shark Cage Fugue too obvious? Naïve Old Fart and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 What about the brass trio, in the middle of MILES ON WHEELS? Does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,826 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 my favourite ones, not so much as 2 themes sounding simultaneously, but as general counterpoint writing are: 1) the Stored Memories choral piece (A.I.) 2) Arlington (JFK) from 2.55'' and on 3) Epilogue (The Fury) from 1.10'' and on karelm and ragoz350 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KingPin 201 Posted June 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2017 At 5:22 there is a great overlap of the upper string instruments and the lower string instruments playing two separate lines. What I like about this passage is that later at 5:44, the upper melody drops out and the lower melody is passed on to the horns. Then at 5:55, after the horns are finished the string section picks up again with that original upper melody on its own. So basically, Williams starts the section by having both melodies play simultaneously, then each is played independently. aviazn, Cerebral Cortex and curlytoot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 This is a great topic for a thread. I've always loved the Harry Potter overture for its counterpoint and how JW overlaps themes like he does here starting at 8:30 and after the modulation at 9:11 (excuse that this is a high school orchestra as accomplished as they are): DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2017 I second the choral opening of Journey Through The Ice (Part 1). Also: Will, Cerebral Cortex and Loert 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2017 No one does dissonant counterpoint quite like Johnny. A few standouts. karelm, Joni Wiljami, Cerebral Cortex and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 12 hours ago, SF1_freeze said: 30-1:25 Padmes funeral immediately comes to mind. Best moment of the ROTS score and unreleased! Here is performance of this piece by Simone Pedroni. For select few with the link, because it's "not public" for reasons unknown. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Now if you like counterpoint, listen to Bach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I like Bach. I like Mozart. Put them together and you've got Mach. It's just simple lines, intertwining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 There's a bit towards the end of 1941's "The Sentries" where Williams places strings and horns on top of each other, but what I like about it especially is how he leads into it; initially it's just one melody in the strings, but a few bars in he creates a temporary 'loop' during which he mixes in the horns in parallel, before they break off to play a separate (and kinda schmaltzy ) line. It's one of my favourite bits in the score: http://picosong.com/79Bu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I love the contrapuntal bit with the trumpets in the cue On His Own from The Rare Breed, at about 12:45 here: The scene accompanies Jimmy Stewart's ultimately successful search for a Hereford bull which has survived a harsh winter against the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 12 hours ago, zaddini said: Here is performance of this piece by Simone Pedroni. For select few with the link, because it's "not public" for reasons unknown. What you posted is sadly not this unreleased piece. It's a rearrangement of parts of the Padmes Funeral piece but it employs a full choir and misses at least one Imperial march counterpoint appearance and lacks the subtelty of the film piece. It's more a continuation of the "standard" funeral theme arrangement coming from TPM and playing during the Birth of Darth Vader in ROTS. In the film for Padmes Funeral the funeral theme is sung only by a women choir supported with subtle instrumentation and then the counterpoint with the Force Theme and the Imperial March starts and it gets purely instrumental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 1:58 - 2:18 Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,912 Posted June 5, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2017 The force awakens when the force is juxtaposed with Rey's theme is good too: Disco Stu, Biodome, Cerebral Cortex and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I was wondering when someone would bring that one up! Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPin 201 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I've always been a fan of this example (2:28 to 2:43): Will and mrbellamy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro 147 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Lately, for me, it's been this bad boy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 2:52 - 3:08 Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviazn 273 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The stretto from March of the Resistance. For illustrative purposes, I'll link this piano cover, with a tip of the hat to the OP. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 hours ago, aviazn said: The stretto from March of the Resistance. For illustrative purposes, I'll link this piano cover, with a tip of the hat to the OP. Oh you. aviazn and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPin 201 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The March from 1941. I love how multiple melodic lines are integrated throughout this piece. In the first half of the piece, we are introduced to the main march theme (let's call it "A"), and then we get a quote middle interlude section that introduced the jaunty woodwind flourish ("B") and a brassy horn line ("C"). Once all three parts have been established, Williams plays around with different combinations. At 2:56, A is combined with B, and then at 3:27, A is combined with both B and C, and then at 3:47, A and C are combined to lead into the finale. Earlier in the piece, foreshadowing of the counterpoint method is made when B and C are overlapped from 2:33 to 2:37. karelm and Loert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The whole score to 'Temple of Doom'? To me still the quintessential colourful adventure score. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Williams best histrionic "over scored" score. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,516 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Some lovely fourth species counterpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 1:19 onwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s081186 14 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Will and Loert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,511 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2017 Another fugato passage: Cerebral Cortex, Cumulonimbus, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aviazn 273 Posted June 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2017 Another moment from March of the Resistance that I'd never noticed until watching this score reduction video is the little string line that runs below the Resistance fanfare, marked "tertiary fluff" at 2:02. I love it—it sounds like a Scottish jig, something out of Holst's St. Paul's Suite or Malcolm Arnold. Will, Marcus, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 Whenever I hear moments like this I'm always reminded of Bartok's brass passages in his Concerto for Orchestra: Muad'Dib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I've always adored the playful low string line in here: Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 There's a bit in THE BATTLE OF HOTH where these agonising strings play over Ben's Theme. It's when someone says "Begin retreat, fall back, fall back". Heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Richard said: There's a bit in THE BATTLE OF HOTH where these agonising strings play over Ben's Theme. It's when someone says "Begin retreat, fall back, fall back". Heartbreaking. I have a sneaking suspicion a similar cue will appear in TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 That's the fella! Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Can't believe this gem is unreleased. I know Bouzereau did his best with the expansions, but was it that hard to stitch Return to the Village with the complete End Credits? It was 25 seconds of unreleased music, no one would've noticed! Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, crumbs said: no one would've noticed! Then why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said: Then why bother? By no-one, obvz I mean those union meanies trying to claim usage fees. I remember reading around the time that licensing was charged roughly per 15 minutes of unreleased music, explaining why the unreleased music from TOD & TLC was in 15 minute increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, crumbs said: Can't believe this gem hasn't been mentioned. Criminally unreleased, too. I know Bouzereau did his best with the expansions, but was it that hard to stitch Return to the Village with the complete End Credits? It was 25 seconds of unreleased music, no one would've noticed! Not Mr Big alluded to it in a previous post: On 2017-6-2 at 5:55 PM, Not Mr. Big said: The end credits of Temple of Doom. And let's not forget the horns from 6:02, too! crumbs and Simon McBride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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