Johnny's Best Counterpoint Moments

[Soundforger 13]

 

 

Since no one has posted this, shame most of this was replaced by "Here they Come".  William Walton flavored counterpoint.

[artguy360 1,843]

7 hours ago, Soundforger said:

 

 

Since no one has posted this, shame most of this was replaced by "Here they Come".  William Walton flavored counterpoint.

Was "Here They Come" tracked into ROTJ? I can't recall.

[Holko 9,499]

2 hours ago, artguy360 said:

Was "Here They Come" tracked into ROTJ? I can't recall.

Nope, the beginning of Through the Flames was replaced with the end of Escape From Cloud City, and other portions of it were also really butchered. I really hate George's editing style.

[Cumulonimbus 22]

On 2017-6-7 at 0:47 PM, Loert said:

Another fugato passage:

 

 

Yes one of my favorite contrapunctive cues!

 

Also highly contrapunctive (yet not by definition a fugue):

 

 

[Holko 9,499]

 

 

 

[Loert 2,510]

Seems like horns against high violins was a popular combination for Williams' early disaster scores...

 

This is stretching the definition of "counterpoint", but the combination of the main melody in the horns and the counter melody in the violins is unusual - the violins sound almost like they're "floating" outside the harmonic space of the rest of the orchestra. It's anxiety-inducing, but also representative of the flying sequence in the way that the violins climb and soar in the high registers throughout.

 

Again, a lot of horns vs violins in this one. I particularly like 0:54, which shares characteristics with the Hook example in my OP, as well as the entire build-up from 2:22 and when the horns join in at 2:38. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Could someone explain what is counterpoint in musical contexts? I've used the term myself but not really knowing what it meant, I just wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about. I just know that it's something ye olde composers used but Hans Zimmer never uses, which supposedly makes him an uneducated philistine of a so-called composer.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't use terms and phrases if you don't know what they mean.

[publicist 4,643]

Counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent (polyphony) yet independent in rhythm and contour. It has been most commonly identified in the European classical tradition, strongly developing during the Renaissance and in much of the common practice period, especially in the Baroque.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm afraid you're gonna have to dumb that down a bit for him.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Some kind of magic that makes music better?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

it's when there's a music that goes like "badaboom tchak tchak boom" and the other music goes "tchaka tchaka zing wing" and both respond to one another. So "badaboom tchak tchak boom?" "tchaka tchaka zing wing!"

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ahhh. See, why can't people just be more like BloodBoal?

[Loert 2,510]

As I put in brackets in my OP, it's when you have two or more melodies playing on top of each other.

 

The best counterpoint is that where the melodies "fit", and where each melody also sounds good on its own. For example, if you took the violins in my first video, and shifted them a bar ahead, it wouldn't sound anywhere as good, because Williams has tailored the violin line to "match" the character of the horn line, even though they're both pretty good sounding on their own. 

 

The worst counterpoint is when you write two separate, crap melodies and just dunk them together with no consideration for their note-by-note relationship.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

8 hours ago, publicist said:

Counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent (polyphony) yet independent in rhythm and contour. It has been most commonly identified in the European classical tradition, strongly developing during the Renaissance and in much of the common practice period, especially in the Baroque.

 

I concur.

[karelm 2,903]

Yes, it is literally a Latin translation of "punctus contra punctum" which is "note against note" so as Loert said, its melodic lines that overlap.  Each independent line should sound fine on its own but works better when the two (or more) independent lines are played at the same time. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

3 hours ago, Loert said:

The best counterpoint is that where the melodies "fit", and where each melody also sounds good on its own.

 

How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint?

[Loert 2,510]

1 hour ago, Sharky said:

 

How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint?

 

Whether a line sounds good or not depends on what you want to do within the context of the piece. If you want to write creepy, CE3K-style atonal counterpoint and one of the lines happens to be Jingle Bells, then I guess that's not a very "good" line! Unless you want to specifically use Jingle Bells for some reason, in which case there's no problem, of course.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

12 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

Some kind of magic that makes music better?

 

Hey. It's a kind of magic 

[karelm 2,903]

10 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

How would you apply to the second requirement to atonal counterpoint?

 

Tonality is based on harmony.  Counterpoint is based on melody regardless of a tonal center(tonality).  That is how. 

[Will 2,215]

The second half of Jaws has so many great moments of counterpoint of the various themes. I discover more every time I listen. One of my favorites here with the low string line and then the high winds:

 

 

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

On 6/2/2017 at 12:46 PM, Dixon Hill said:

 

He hasn't written many outright fugues.  More so fugato passages that emulate fugal expositions.  

I wouldn't count fugues.

That is a specific form built entirely on strictly contrapuntual lines. Of equal importance

 

I consider counterpoint In film to be when a dominant theme is accompanied by a single, secondary theme

 

 

[Bellosh 3,398]

10:06 of 'Indy's Very First Adventure'. Indy's theme plays over the playful young indy motif.  The fact that it plays the Indy theme when we see the dog, Indy, is just another level of genius by JW.

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Off the top of my head::

JFK " "Arlington"

 

My all time favorite example of counterpoint in film...

49th Parallel.  "Prelude"

 

RVW composed a gorgeous counter melody for French horn to accompany the haunting main them

 

40 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZSqnJN4pts

 

Buyer BEWARE#

Avoid any version of this piece that goes past 2:15.

Many conductors, including Bernie Herrmann, taken it way to sssssllllloooowwww😡😠

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm not sure why I never participated in this thread in '17, but I'll pop in now to give some love to Home Alone's "Setting the Trap" and the brass variations on the Force theme as the Rebels approach the Death Star in ANH.

[Jay 37,322]

On 8/21/2020 at 5:44 PM, Bellosh said:

10:06 of 'Indy's Very First Adventure'. Indy's theme plays over the playful young indy motif.  The fact that it plays the Indy theme when we see the dog, Indy, is just another level of genius by JW.

 

Yes yes YES, this moment is absolutely amazing, and I always suspected him doing it here over the shot of the dog was a tongue in cheek reference to the later revelation

 

I can't believe this counterpoint example of the Rebel Fanfare playing over Lando's Palace theme hasn't been mentioned

 

 

[Fabulin 3,510]

The piano version highlights the awesomeness of the counterpoint in this track much better imho

 

3:07

0:50