Ricard 2,245 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Quote It's a pretty widely accepted idea that the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been front and center when it comes to unmemorable (sometimes even poor) film scores. With the predictability, lack of visceral effect and lack of memorability — compounded with the cultural shift in the industry away from noticeable music — the MCU has severely suffered in their film scores. Despite such talents as Alan Silvestri, Alan Menken, Ramin Djawadi and more, the MCU has largely failed to create lasting music. With the help of the incredible #HansZimmer, the DCEU has not suffered the same treatment of their film scores as the MCU has. However, aside from Man of Steel's theme and Wonder Woman's motif in Batman V Superman, the music has seen a similar decline in importance and memorability. Yet, within the past year, this trend among the superhero genre (although the problem exists across Hollywood) has seen significant improvements, and it seems we might just be turning around — superhero film scores may just be important again. Quote The big trend here is what the composers are choosing to focus on in their scores: characters. Think back to the earlier examples of Superman, Spider-Man, and X-Men — part of the success there was that the music was tied to the identity of the hero. In much the same way, Gianchinno (sic) made the music important to the characters of Doctor Strange, Beltrami's minimalism lent itself to the intimacy of Logan's relationship with Charles and Laura, the Awesome Mixtape — although largely pop songs — informed the audience of who these groups of outcasts and misfits are (and who they have grown into since their first outing), and Gregson-Williams utilized his musical prowess to showcase who Diana is and what it means to be a hero. That is what is important; that is why film scores have become relevant to the superhero genre again — a return to the focus of the character. https://moviepilot.com/p/modern-superhero-film-scores-composers/4289627 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon McBride 113 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I watched a video claiming that using other film scores as temp tracks makes all film music sound the same. It could possibly apply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,275 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Is Giacchino among those "brilliant composers"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Aka superhero music will get better now that Zimmer's supposedly quit. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Quit? I want him to do more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Wake when we get actual "epic romantic music" in our superhero films again. I liked Logan, and parts of the Wonder Woman score are starting to grow on me but damn if the action music isn't the same RC pumping noise we've heard a million times. Certainly the MCU could do better to have actual recurring themes playing throughout their films, but they seem adverse to that, as well. Article is good and well-meaning but I don't entirely agree with the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 When I was a little squirt, we had funny book scores like Superman: The Movie, Batman, Batman Returns and The Rocketeer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Shadow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Strange article; the great majority of superhero scores I listened out for in recent years have been fucking useless. Not Mr. Big and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 'Best' is a very relative term here. Bilbo and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Despite the undeserved attention these comic franchises get there are still a handful of things that are actually good. Seeking them in the blockbuster genre is kind of silly. Of what you listed there are all but a handful of mildly diverting cues, the rest is...well, noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 2017-6-10 at 8:37 AM, BloodBoal said: As long as you don't expect Williams-level of greatness, you'll be fine with those. The trouble is, I do. Along with Goldsmith, Horner and Elfman "level of greatness". When you grow up with those guys underscoring your superheroes, nothing else really compares. In fact, everything else sounds crap next to it. That's not my fault for "having unfair expectations". It's just the state of the industry. So no, I won't be "fine". Simon McBride, Damien F, Gruesome Son of a Bitch and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I'm fine with it because I don't have to spend as much money on new soundtracks. So bland and mediocre film scores are good for the economy - I can save money and spend it on other endeavours. But then sometimes a modern score I didn't care for much initially, like MoS or BvS, can suddenly grow on me and I end up listening to it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 It's just a good day to quit the hobby. At least as popular movies go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The 'superhero' theme I've grown most fond of recently wasn't even from a movie. That's where we are these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Themes are not the problem, per se. The musical application and variation is what makes film music so intriguing - getting a full, rounded musical work. Since UNDERSCORE these days is synonymous with limp, sometimes amateurish molasses based on boring and simple rhythmic development (save for a few exceptions) there just is not much reason to invest into it month by month. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 For the record, i do not think we lack the talent. It's just that the results tend to suck. Sadly the golden age of tv hasn't been kind to musical talent, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2017 Why does this guy like Wonder Woman so much? I've yet to be impressed by anything Rupert has done, including this rather unimaginative work (although I do like the Zimmer theme). His score for The Crown last year is one of the worst major tv soundtracks of recent memory. I remember the rave reviews the awful Jungle Book score was getting last year, another score whose most memorable musical moments are borrowed from a different film. Standards have slipped so low. leeallen01, Not Mr. Big and Sharkissimo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Crown sounds even more inadequate than Djawadi's Game of Thrones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hey at least Djawadi had "Light of the Seven" last year! Brilliant cue. This is all The Crown sounds like, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Hey at least Djawadi had "Light of the Seven" last year! Brilliant cue. It was okay. 7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: This is all The Crown sounds like, ever. BAFTA nomination material right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The theme is by Hans Zimmer! Another one of those where he does a main title and leaves the boring underscore to lesser composers (not that his main theme is anything special in this case) Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 In the first cue you linked, I listened to it all, and towards the end it gets all ostinato power anthem-ish and then sudden silence. That's where I immediately anticipated the delicate piano to come in next, and it did! Plink plonk... it's just so profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Wonder Woman's score actually elevates the film nicely, but alas I wasn't exactly rushing to buy the CD. Either way, it's at least above the last few Zimmer works, so it's a baby step in the right direction, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,511 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Zimmer...does a main title and leaves the boring underscore to lesser composers Sorry, dude, I wasn't aware that were any lesser composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I like Zimmer! But perfect, he ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Zimmer underscore in Man of Steel and Batman vs. Superman utterly outclasses most of the music from this supposed renaissance of supehero music, manufactured in the mind of Jeremiah Paul. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 7 hours ago, publicist said: For the record, i do not think we lack the talent. It's just that the results tend to suck. Sadly the golden age of tv hasn't been kind to musical talent, either. I find a lack of willingness to make each one distinctive. Like with Doctor Strange, where they seemed to know how it should sound, but it was only touches at the end, instead of going trippy in several ways through the whole score. Or take Black Panther. They could renounce to anything western, do several kinds of African music and weird electronica stuff, have some hip-hop. I think we'll get instead something generic sounding with a hip hop song by somebody else in the credits. I want to be surprised, but I don't expect it anymore, at all. It gets to the point where the most original use of music in superhero stuff is, hilariously, what James Gunn does (although it's more of a space opera glued somehow to the other stuff). It turns out using music the good way hooks the audiences, who would've thought. (Nevermind the boring Tyler Bates underscore... I think those two movies deserved better on that area). I could go into themes and musical continuity and where to put what but when we don't have the above it feels pointless. Brónach - who's curious about Mark Mothersbaugh and Thor Sharkissimo and KK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The majority of these superhero movies are terrible anyway, so does it really matter whether or not they have great music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Yes, because 'Supergirl' or 'Conan The Destroyer' were terrible movies, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I'd rather Supergirl have a terrible score so the world can have an even easier time forgetting that movie exists. The score isn't even top-drawer Goldsmith anyway (for me at least, but I hum that main theme now and then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Hey at least Djawadi had "Light of the Seven" last year! Brilliant cue. This is all The Crown sounds like, ever. Yup. It's another cheap, redundant Time/Journey to the Line knockoff. With that said, it does its trick in the show, making all sorts of montages seem "profound" and "meaningful". Good show. Generic and sometimes distracting score. Haven't heard Wonder Woman, but I liked the little bits of score in Veep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 A curious statement. You basically say that you want more terrible scores instead of good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Sharky said: The Zimmer underscore in Man of Steel and Batman vs. Superman utterly outclasses most of the music from this supposed renaissance of supehero music, manufactured in the mind of Jeremiah Paul. Indeed. And at least it has its own character, which is more than what can be said for superhero scores these days, including the ones that BB listed. But I'm guessing that's what this article is trying to get at, with poor results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Zimmer's score for MOS and BVS is exactly the kind of issue I have with modern superhero scoring and scoring in general. He makes fine themes, but his underscoring for both films is full of largely noise and irritating Junkie XL electronic, not my cup of tea really. I suppose it could be worse though, like Jackman's work for The Winter Soldier. Shudders! leeallen01 and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I actually prefer Jackman's Captain America scores to anything in Man of Steel or BvS. Those are not my favorite Zimmers. 37 minutes ago, KK said: Yup. It's another cheap, redundant Time/Journey to the Line knockoff. With that said, it does its trick in the show, making all sorts of montages seem "profound" and "meaningful". Good show. Generic and sometimes distracting score. Haven't heard Wonder Woman, but I liked the little bits of score in Veep. Oh yeah, I love the show itself. Much like with Game of Thrones, a great show with a score that's mostly wallpaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Fancyarcher said: He makes fine themes, but his underscoring for both films is full of largely noise and irritating Junkie XL electronic, not my cup of tea really. I'd rather listen to inventive 'noise' than cloddish pseudo-Zimmer chaconnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 6/10/2017 at 1:52 PM, Sharky said: I'd rather listen to inventive 'noise' than cloddish pseudo-Zimmer chaconnes. Oh it's different I'll admit, I just wish it was the kind of different I like more. Way too much of BVS sounds utterly "bleak" for me to enjoy for example. It's certainly better then a lot of the Zimmer clone scores at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Sharky said: I'd rather listen to inventive 'noise' than cloddish pseudo-Zimmer chaconnes. To be fair, there is a fair amount of noise in those scores that I could do without ("Oil Rig", JXL's generic pounding, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Unfortunately, Elfman doesn't do anything good anymore, Williams exclusively scores Disney Star Wars and Spielberg dramas and Horner and Prince have passed on. So there's no one left to compose a great superhero score. Prince did warn us that the future would be rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Actually I like a lot of stuff in MoS because it does have the "make it sound distinctive" thing I like. (Or maybe because I associate it with Interstellar the next year for some reason, which I also really like). I don't want people to write more John Williams stuff, it's going to be mediocre and we have his actual stuff anyway. There's action moments in MoS which are too overbearing and BUM BUM BUM BUM for my taste (I don't think action equals noise, and it's probably the other way around...) but I liked the other stuff and the theme is cute. I'm probably not saying anything that hasn't been said hundreds of times here. Sharkissimo and Unlucky Bastard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 What about Michael Giac- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I want more of this Christophe Beck guy (although I only know Ant-Man, Edge of Tomorrow and Frozen). The talent is usually out there, it's probably something else failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I can't hear the Ant-Man theme without thinking of Mission: Impossible, but it suited that film nicely nonetheless. Sort of like how I forgive Horner for using Powerhouse in Honey I Shrunk the Kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The Beck scores you mentioned were more or less the same indistinct fluff, just with some occasional flavour. I'd want someone Austin Wintory to take charge with a superhero score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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