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Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


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1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Sure, one might want to know, but that it should be vital for one's enjoyment?! That I don't get. I mean, film music can't on its own? One must think of a specific movie and certain situations in that movie or film music can't be appreciated?  I certainly don't need that context, not with classical music, nor with film music. I find it the idea that you need to have seen the movie quite limiting. I love the music of Williams or Sakamoto because of who wrote it and not because it's a part of some movie. I can provide my own context. 

 

No, I don't think it's vital, I just think it's a natural viewpoint to have. Thinking it's "limiting" is another valid viewpoint, not sure if I agree, but opinions obviously vary. There's no definite answer. 

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This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

This thread  

22 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

I've always wanted to hear ALW's Phantom of the Opera as an instrumental without all the annoying lyrics.

 

Well, there have been some instrumental-only recordings (though these only features selections from the score, and not always performed by a full orchestra).

 

 

This album also has nice arrangements of the music: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/symphonic-lloyd-webber/id306130331

 

11 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

So if anything that means you have less context for the story with a film score soundtrack.

 

Oh, I don't disagree with that.

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4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

If not treating every person who doesn't think like me like an unworthy intellectual inferior is peasant bullshit then I'll own it.  You give off the appearance of a fundamental disregard for people you enter into conversation with and it is deeply unpleasant.

 

I don't, it's what you make of it. And sometimes you could take the time to actually think about what others really wrote instead of firing off these frequent and unwelcome gut reactions of yours - insufferably holier-than-you political correctness run amuck instead of you actually trying to discuss things. Because what i wrote surely IS debatable in this context.

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I don't mind the sensitive. I mind the pompous pulpit. Online discussions always need at least a bit of leeway - it's awfully hard to contextualize without putting five emojis after every sentence which i find rather retarded. Drawing the morally superior card so frequently in this context is certainly not taxing (80% of the posts are eligible) but it sure isn't gonna make the world a better place. It's also not making you a good sport.

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

I don't mind the sensitive. I mind the pompous pulpit. Online discussions always need at least a bit of leeway - it's awfully hard to contextualize without putting five emojis after every sentence which i find rather retarded. Drawing the morally superior card so frequently in this context is certainly not taxing (80% of the posts are eligible) but it sure isn't gonna make the world a better place. It's also not making you a good sport.

 

Wait what? I don't visit this place often so maybe I'm missing something, but you started this whole thing with your real douchey post (about brain crutches and what not). Again I might be missing something but you've done nothing but act like a dick since then so I don't know what you think you're talking about in regards to being a "good sport."

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20 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Pub is a valued member of the community!

 

I agree.

 

9 minutes ago, Sharky said:

Pub's a bit of a firebrand but I always welcome his barbed witticisms and colourful employment of the English language. A JWfan without him would be a cosier but duller place.

 

It's the disrespect that bothers me.  Even when somebody does say something a little dumb, the only thing accomplished by posting a self-satisfied, cutting bon mot is gross ego masturbation.

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33 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

It's the disrespect that bothers me.  Even when somebody does say something a little dumb, the only thing accomplished by posting a self-satisfied, cutting bon mot is gross ego masturbation.

 

Well that and provoking a laugh (in some).

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Just now, Sharky said:

 

Well that and provoking a laugh.

 

This is true sometimes.  But it veers dangerously close to intellectual bullying sometimes.  Which, yeah I know, that's the internet.  It might be funny, but it doesn't mean it's not something meant to make another person feel smaller.

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I'll own up to being an at time overly-sensitive person in general.  Always have been in "real" life too.

 

I'm sorry if all this has dragged out.  Been very stressed lately.  Let's get back to mindless trashing of Zimmer for TGP's amusement.

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On 7/16/2017 at 4:18 AM, Alexcremers said:

I can't speak for others, but personally, I always let music speak for itself. I don't need to attend the ballet to get an emotional attachment to the music of Stravinsky. 

 

I sort of agree with you.  I think Horner's Wolf Totem is a great soundtrack to listen to so full of melodies and what Horner fans love about him and I couldn't care about the film (it sounds silly).  With that said, I do reserve the right to revise my opinion of the musical contribution AFTER I have seen a film. Terrence Malick being a perfect example of a semi-poor ost  experience though excellent audio visual musical pairing.  I would never listen to a score of a Malick film without seeing the film because he is such a visualist and I've also been blown away by the music even when it is a composer I would rather not listen to. Collectively, Star Wars has consistently great music. The films are uneven.  I won't judge the music based on the film.  Conversely, I reserve the right to judge the music after seeing the film.  I didn't like the Lucas/Coppola produced film "Mishima", but thought Phillip Glass's music was deeply moving, excellent and worthy to stand on its own. I am loving the score to Bicentennial Man and have no desire to see the film (right now at least).

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17 hours ago, publicist said:

Less diplomatically phrased: lots of brains need a crutch.

 

No. 

 

3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Pub is a valued member of the community!

 

Yes.

 

 


 

 

There is an experience that arises from the interaction between music and its intended visual medium that you cannot replicate any other way. While you can put the music against other visuals or your own imagination, you are missing a fundamental experience that the composer created in the space between the specific music and the specific picture/ballet/opera.  

 

It is like listening to the timpani line from the Star Wars main title and proclaiming you can fill in the rest yourself. Sure, you can, but you have not heard Star Wars main title. It is the interaction between the timpani, the flutes, the trombones, the trumpets, the strings, etc. that makes the track.

 

And ultimately if you haven’t seen the silent blue text followed by the blast of yellow text, you do not truly understand the Star Wars theme. 

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8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Nah, I'm done.  I made my issues with him clear.  Not treating everyone like they have pea-sized brains doesn't mean I think I'm morally superior.

 

But you do. You love to come to the rescue of whatever 'insulted' majority that never asked for your support.

2 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

I don't doubt that but I don't think that means he wasn't being a dick. 

 

And why not? It's not against the board rules and i sure see much more serious personal insults hurled around here which sure stick better than some throwaway comment which i do not think is untrue in the context of a message board devoted to the love of film MUSIC. Not diplomatically phrased, of course.

3 hours ago, Blumenkohl said:

There is an experience that arises from the interaction between music and its intended visual medium that you cannot replicate any other way. While you can put the music against other visuals or your own imagination, you are missing a fundamental experience that the composer created in the space between the specific music and the specific picture/ballet/opera.  

 

That is all true and there are countless examples of memorable audio/video synchronization but to claim the music itself cannot overcome the medium it was written for is defeating the whole purpose of the hobby. Music, released and enjoyed away from the film, practically begs to be felt and understood on its own. And i am of the firm belief that in this context it seems a bit of a curious notion that so many are stuck with the synchronization with the picture as if that were a quality in itself. Most movies are not very good, anyway (see large parts of the Morricone/Goldsmith etc. filmography). Often enough, the music WINS freed from the movie - goes not for many current scores, i give you that - and very few equal the power of the E. T. or CEOTK finale. 

 

So in essence, yes, i think the 'fundamental experience' may happen once in a while but i gather most listen to lots of film music so often and repeatedly, it would strike me as not overly bright if that happened mainly in conjunction with slavishly imagining a film sequence. 

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2 hours ago, publicist said:

 

That is all true and there are countless examples of memorable audio/video synchronization but to claim the music itself cannot overcome the medium it was written for is defeating the whole purpose of the hobby. Music, released and enjoyed away from the film, practically begs to be felt and understood on its own. And i am of the firm belief that in this context it seems a bit of a curious notion that so many are stuck with the synchronization with the picture as if that were a quality in itself. Most movies are not very good, anyway (see large parts of the Morricone/Goldsmith etc. filmography). Often enough, the music WINS freed from the movie - goes not for many current scores, i give you that - and very few equal the power of the E. T. or CEOTK finale. 

 

So in essence, yes, i think the 'fundamental experience' may happen once in a while but i gather most listen to lots of film music so often and repeatedly, it would strike me as not overly bright if that happened mainly in conjunction with slavishly imagining a film sequence. 

 

Well said and I fully agree. I'm a bit surprised and even baffled that people need the movie. That simply has never been the case for me. Yes, I understand that sometimes the music needs the movie (because it's not so interesting on its own) but, in most cases, the music of composers like John Williams or Stravinsky stands above the medium it was written for. And film music that is "freed" from the movie can become a lot more personal. You bring something of yourself to the experience. And that's the beauty of music or art.

 

 

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I've often formed my own stories or scenes in my head based on music. And when I watch the film it was actually scored for found that it wasnt as exiting or vibrant as what I had imagined for it.

 

But yeah for average composers like Giachinno, Debney, JHH etc it's probably a good idea to watch the film. Often time they arent able to transcend the context of what they are writing for.

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3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

And when I watch the film it was actually scored for found that it wasnt as exiting or vibrant as what I had imagined for it.

 

 

Indeed, Steef. Often film music sits under a scene that is downright banal compared to when you've made it into something of your own. 

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I've always made an indelible link between the picture and the score, it's likely the main reason why I actually listen to relatively very few scores, especially compared to an avid enthusiast like pub. Where this particular and arguably very niche medium is concerned, I think he's more of a music fan than I am, and he seemingly makes only a cursory distinction or acknowledgement that the composition is intended as the underscore to a movie - whereas for me that is its whole reason to be. For him it is music; whilst I'm always listening to a film score.

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I'm probably somewhere in the middle of that.

3 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Indeed, Steef. Often film music sits under a scene that is downright banal compared to when you've made it into something of your own. 

 

Great film music puts images in your head based upon what you hear. Average film music just makes you think of the film.

 

First Stefancos wisdom of the day!

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I've done that too of course. I remember listening to the Fellowship of the Ring soundtrack a great deal before I'd seen the film, and happily imagining how scenes might play out to the music, which was hardly accurate in the end as one would expect. Such rare instances are where I will readily make a distinction, and just appreciate the sound as music in its own right, which is something I always do anyway in as far as I'm of course interested in the quality of composition. But once I'd eventually seen FOTR, that did come to recalibrate my appreciation and indeed greater enjoyment of the score. Knowing how well the images fit enhances my listening experience.

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5 minutes ago, MedigoScan said:

The music can also go too far in the other direction, where it is trying too hard to impress emotions on me

War Horse felt like that to me for instance, and the music was far more enjoyable without context

 

That means it's a bad score.

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3 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The Lord of the Rings (much like Star Wars) is a film where the music and picture are totally wrapped up together for me. Can't think of one without the other.

 

Legends of the Fall is a score I adore but I never have, and probably never will, see the film. 

 

Even then I think about the world they create and the feelings or emotions you get from it. It's more about my personal conception of Star Wars ...  A nonspecific Star Wars state of mind. While listening to the music, I don't replicate the actual scenes over and over and over again. 

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2 hours ago, Quintus said:

I've always made an indelible link between the picture and the score, it's likely the main reason why I actually listen to relatively very few scores, especially compared to an avid enthusiast like pub. Where this particular and arguably very niche medium is concerned, I think he's more of a music fan than I am, and he seemingly makes only a cursory distinction or acknowledgement that the composition is intended as the underscore to a movie - whereas for me that is it's whole reason to be. For him it is music; whilst I'm always listening to a film score.

 

That's why you haven't listened to all those very good scores i listed and probably will shrug at most of them - there's no real reason to invest w/o the movie. But citing 'Lady in the Water', a nutty but not wholly uninteresting failure, it's one of several JNH scores where i like to excise the movie experience from my head because the music as such is so much more imaginative than what it was written for (and has every right to be).

 

But i think it robs you of lots of tremendous musical experiences.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, publicist said:

But citing 'Lady in the Water', a nutty but not wholly uninteresting failure, it's one of several JNH scores where i like to excise the movie experience from my head because the music as such is so much more imaginative than what it was written for (and has every right to be).

 

Good example. God, what a disappointment that was to see the scenes such great music had been written for. Certainly did not expect something like that after having heard The Great Eatlon.

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5 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The Lord of the Rings (much like Star Wars) is a film where the music and picture are totally wrapped up together for me. Can't think of one without the other.

 

Legends of the Fall is a score I adore but I never have, and probably never will, see the film. 

 

 But when you say Star Wars, you can't mean all the movies in the series? Attack of the clones is insufferable though the score is very fine when separated from the film.

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