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Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


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This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

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6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Great film music puts images in your head based upon what you hear. Average film music just makes you think of the film.

 

First Stefancos wisdom of the day!

No.  100th Stiffancos stating the obvious of the day!

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I guess I'm just a film fan first and a music fan second. I see film scores as being one of the many components that make up a film, only it just happens to be a component you can enjoy on its own. But in my mind that doesn't completely divorce it from the film. I can enjoy an OST fine but if it doesn't fit the film I can't say that's a good score. Likewise, I might be bored by an OST but if it's just what the film asked for, that's a good score. Separate conversations a bit but I think in judging the ultimate quality of a score you can't completely ignore the fact it was written for a film, and how it succeeds on those terms, which is really its main purpose.

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9 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

Likewise, I might be bored by an OST but if it's just what the film asked for, that's a good score. 

 

Yes, my go-to example for this is Jon Brion.  I love his scores for movies like Eternal SunshineI Heart Huckabees, and Punch Drunk Love but I would never want to listen to them on their own.

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I'm just growing to prefer these films where everything is so tightly wound together, and the experience is as purely cinematic as it can be.  If this results in a score that's a drag on its own, that's fine by me.  We have a lion's share already of scores that fill the Greek Chorus role and can play fine solo. 

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12 hours ago, publicist said:

 

But you do. You love to come to the rescue of whatever 'insulted' majority that never asked for your support.

 

And why not? It's not against the board rules and i sure see much more serious personal insults hurled around here which sure stick better than some throwaway comment which i do not think is untrue in the context of a message board devoted to the love of film MUSIC. Not diplomatically phrased, of course.

 

That is all true and there are countless examples of memorable audio/video synchronization but to claim the music itself cannot overcome the medium it was written for is defeating the whole purpose of the hobby. Music, released and enjoyed away from the film, practically begs to be felt and understood on its own. And i am of the firm belief that in this context it seems a bit of a curious notion that so many are stuck with the synchronization with the picture as if that were a quality in itself. Most movies are not very good, anyway (see large parts of the Morricone/Goldsmith etc. filmography). Often enough, the music WINS freed from the movie - goes not for many current scores, i give you that - and very few equal the power of the E. T. or CEOTK finale. 

 

So in essence, yes, i think the 'fundamental experience' may happen once in a while but i gather most listen to lots of film music so often and repeatedly, it would strike me as not overly bright if that happened mainly in conjunction with slavishly imagining a film sequence. 

 

I mean yeah, with all the tracking and moving around that happens with film music now it's a rarer quality to have music intended for picture. 

 

But still, to not see Rite of Spring against the ballet you kinda miss out on something marvelous in between Stravinsky's music and Njinsky's choreography. 

 

I haven't seen every Jerry Goldsmith film. But even the less than stellar ones (most of them) gave me appreciation for the dramatic talents of the man. 

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Nobody says to skip the movies. But i don't need to see the ballet twenty times but that is exactly what film music listeners do. Most fans (here and elsewhere) listen to certain scores a lot. And i think the pleasure derived from that has nothing to do with accompanying movie scenes. Or rather, it would be sad if that was the case. Because i sure can imagine better things than the dreary movies when i listen to 'Lionheart' or 'Legends of the Fall' (most of the time when i have listened to music i liked before seeing the movie i was actually massively disappointed how few of the things i imagined turned up on the screen).

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I think seeing the music work in the context it was written is an interesting and enriching exercice. But I don't think it really adds or detracts from my enjoyment when listening to the music by itself. It's like a separate experience. Something extra that can be brought by the music. But my apreciation of it as little or nothing to do with my apreciation of the music itself

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8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

My favorite "review" of Dunkirk, from the film critic at The Atlantic:

 

:P 

 

 

This bodes well for the film.  War films should be intense.  I will reserve judgment on the music and its fit within the film though until I see it.

This whole thread is like a nolan/zimmer movie.  You have those ambivalent to zimmer, the Pub/disco stu fight, and the film versus music experience people overlapping simultaneously. Some will call this thread brilliant.  Others will say it's a random mess.  

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32 minutes ago, karelm said:

 

This bodes well for the film.  War films should be intense.  I will reserve judgment on the music and its fit within the film though until I see it.

This whole thread is like a nolan/zimmer movie.  You have those ambivalent to zimmer, the Pub/disco stu fight, and the film versus music experience people overlapping simultaneously. Some will call this thread brilliant.  Others will say it's a random mess.  

 

"A fine, but ultimately very flawed thread."

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9 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

Zimmer and a few others do the new integrated cinematic sound really well. It's ones like Brian Tyler who I'd regard as "clumsy" while attempting this.

 

You're not wrong about Tyler and his ilk, sadly.  

 

I actually think Newman is the one who set out the model for this "new way" before anyone else did.  He's fantastic at it.  

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4 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

 

I'm a bit reluctant to consider him for a nom because of his Inception snub, but he definitely deserves to be nominated at least.

 

I can't imagine Nolan not getting a best director nomination at this point. 

 

I think that is more likely than any other nomination for Dunkirk. Based on the reviews, I am guessing the Dunkirk will be nominated for the following:

 

Best Picture

Best Director

Best Cinematography

Best Film Editing

Best Sound Editing

Best Production Design

Best Original Score

 

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39 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

You're not wrong about Tyler and his ilk, sadly.  

 

I actually think Newman is the one who set out the model for this "new way" before anyone else did.  He's fantastic at it.  

 

You mean Thomas Newman? I've grown to really like the textures he used in his 007 scores. I just wish his album arrangements had more thought than just plonking 30 short tracks together.

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6 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

These reviews are next level good. Oh shit!!! Could this be a best picture nominee? 

 

These days it doesn't take a lot to be a BP nominee seeing as there are a gazillion spots. So yeah, it should be able to grab one spot rather easily, at this point.

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1 hour ago, Mephariel said:

 

 

I can't imagine Nolan not getting a best director nomination at this point. 

 

I think that is more likely than any other nomination for Dunkirk. Based on the reviews, I am guessing the Dunkirk will be nominated for the following:

 

Best Picture

Best Director

Best Cinematography

Best Film Editing

Best Sound Editing

Best Production Design

Best Original Score

 

 

If by some crazy chance Nolan somehow doesn't land a best director nomination, then he's probably never getting nominated, I'd say. Of course I have no idea what will actually happen. 

 

25 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

These days it doesn't take a lot to be a BP nominee seeing as there are a gazillion spots. So yeah, it should be able to grab one spot rather easily, at this point.

 

Well with 8 best picture nominees, it's not hard to get nominated. A lot of it depends on the subject matter. An acclaimed genre film is less likely to get a nomination compared to say a drama for example, with the few exceptions of course. 

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That's the way it originally was, then they dropped it down to 5, and because ratings were plummeting they increased it back so average joe's favorite summer movie being nominated got them another viewer.

 

I'm telling ya, the auteur directors inspired by the French new wave are disappearing and the studio system is taking over like the early days of Hollywood. 

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11 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

I'm telling ya, the auteur directors inspired by the French new wave are disappearing and the studio system is taking over like the early days of Hollywood. 

 

Yup. Hollywood is basically going back to the pre-50s big studios system. Just that in this case, Disney will eventually own everything.

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Rare is it that a blockbuster makes it in. It's usually just more of the same stuff they usually go for (middle-brow adult dramas, biopics, etc.). Actually one could make the argument that the change has mostly benefited independent films. And it's a sliding scale between 5 and 10 noms, depending on percentage of votes. It's kinda silly, but wasn't it always?

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9 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

I'm telling ya, the auteur directors inspired by the French new wave are disappearing and the studio system is taking over like the early days of Hollywood. 

 

You're almost 40 years late with this observation.

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4 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

They should bring back the best original comedy or musical score category!

 

I liked that brief period in the 90s a lot.  No way would someone like Rachel Portman or Anne Dudley ever have been able to win a score Oscar otherwise.

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This film is getting great reviews:

https://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/dunkirk-review-christopher-nolan-harry-styles-tom-hardy-imax-70mm-1201855825/

 

 

‘Dunkirk’ Review: Christopher Nolan’s Monumental War Epic Is The Best Film He’s Ever Made

 

“Dunkirk” is a bloodless but profoundly unnerving assault on the senses, a spectacle that searches for order in the midst of chaos.

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