Jump to content

Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

This thread  

25 minutes ago, Quintus said:

In retrospect the scene does lay it on too thick, I'd have preferred something more subtle myself. But a couple of culprits here constantly act like it destroys the film and it has essentially become the main takeaway of Schindler's List on this site.

 

It certainly does not but it is the apotheosis of the movie were Spielberg's emotional indulgences and Williams' musical pathos make for a rather unholy alliance - and i say that as a german who probably was raised with a much more conscious idea of what is suitable in a Holocaust context and when we saw 'Schindler'  in our school back in early 1994, there were many who objected to that 'Hollywood kitsch' ending that cheapened what came before in the movie and the actual event - it felt like sugar coating.

 

That may be a german viewpoint not entirely justified in the context of an american dramatization.

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, publicist said:

It seems designed for a more movie-naive age, though. It's basically the blunt Demille version (note how Spielberg basically reworks Chaplin's 'Great Dictator' finish). I would have preferred a more subtle scene and bet it would have driven home the point better. So many people cringe about the scene and that cannot have been Spielberg's intention.

 

Nah, not people who don’t spend time dissecting movies to fulfill themeselves. It’s about on par with the rest of the film, maybe slightly worse or slightly better depending on your taste. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

I never knew there was a problem with the "I could have done more scene" until I read all the complaints about it on the internet.

 

I'm sure to many people this is the moment when the film stopped being distant and cold, but yeah, others find it way too melodramatic compared to the rest of the movie. It's completely unnecessary too, in my opinion. It's Spielberg not trusting the audience to think for itself. I forgot, there's a second slip-up: The girl with her red coat. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alexcremers said:

 

I'm sure to many people this is the moment when the film stopped being distant and cold, but yeah, others find it way too melodramatic compared to the rest of the movie. It's completely unnecessary too, in my opinion. I forgot, there's a second slip-up: The girl with her red coat. 

 

"distant and cold" is not how I would describe what came before.  Maybe, "disturbingly matter-of-fact" and it's an astounding watch.  And then to see Schindler finally let himself comprehend the enormity of the horror is such an emotional catharsis, as Quintus said, for the audience.  I don't think it's easy or unnecessary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Distant and cold" is how it must have felt for typical Spielberg fans because the critical consensus (as well as my opinion) was that Schindler's List was surprisingly restrained for Steven Spielberg. Then came the 'I could have done more' scene ... Still, 98% of the movie is still great! ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a pretty pervasive (and one might say sophomoric) attitude that Spielberg is too much a sentimentalist and that that's a bad thing. Sentimental or not, as long as it's effective, that's the sign of a good filmmaker. You can emotionally distance yourself from the film and try to "analyze" where it isn't "realistic," or whatever your metric is, but the truth of the matter is that that scene in Schindler's is an incredibly effective release, and Spielberg 100% makes it work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

If I'm correct, Spielberg uses a little girl in Munich to extract an emotion form the audience as well.

 

Do you mean the one who almost got blown up by the telephone bomb?  That was an expertly executed suspense sequence, very Hitchcockian.  The little girl was just there to up the ante, thrill-wise.  Great scene, one of the best of that movie

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, publicist said:

It's broad strokes but it's visual. it doesn't speak. That's a big advantage over the other sequence.

 

That's the thing about it, it's purely visual; it isn't manipulative at all to me. I can't really describe what my emotions were when I first watched that sequence, but I certainly don't find it especially moving. More than anything, striking, is how I'd describe it. I honestly don't think Alexcremers understands Schindler's List, same as he didn't get 2001: A Space Odyssey. He's sort of the weird inverse here of Drax. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

23 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Do you mean the one who almost got blown up by the telephone bomb?  That was an expertly executed suspense sequence, very Hitchcockian.  The little girl was just there to up the ante, thrill-wise.  Great scene, one of the best of that movie

 

Yes, I was immediately reminded of the girl with the red coat in Schindler's List. Easy manipulation tricks kinda spoil it for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

There is a pretty pervasive (and one might say sophomoric) attitude that Spielberg is too much a sentimentalist and that that's a bad thing. Sentimental or not, as long as it's effective, that's the sign of a good filmmaker. You can emotionally distance yourself from the film and try to "analyze" where it isn't "realistic," or whatever your metric is, but the truth of the matter is that that scene in Schindler's is an incredibly effective release, and Spielberg 100% makes it work.

 

It's not a matter of realism. It's when you feel things are getting way too melodramatic to convey an emotion. The 'I could have done more' scene would have been more powerful if Schindler didn't have a breakdown. That leaves it up to us but Spielberg doesn't trust his own audience.

 

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Being manipulated by a master filmmaker is one of life's pleasures.

 

It's not masterful. It's overcooked. Masterful is when you don't know when you are being manipulated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How is that a conversation?! That doesn't make sense. He's actually dictating us what to think and how to feel.

 

8 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Spielberg doesn't just trust his audience, he's in constant conversation with them and their expectations.  Like all the best old Hollywood directors were.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

We all like to think we're strong enough not to be hypnotised. "Ha! That doesn't affect me!"

 

Hence "sophomoric."

 

15 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

It's not a matter of realism. It's when you feel things are getting way too melodramatic to convey an emotion. The 'I could have done more' scene would have been more powerful if Schindler didn't have a breakdown. That leaves it up to us but Spielberg doesn't trust his own audience.

 

 

How dare someone who's just gone through an insanely harrowing and traumatic experience have a breakdown knowing that there are people who died he might have been able to save?

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

 You can emotionally distance yourself from the film and try to "analyze" where it isn't "realistic," or whatever your metric is, but the truth of the matter is that that scene in Schindler's is an incredibly effective release, and Spielberg 100% makes it work.

 

For you. An important distinction.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

How is that a conversation?! That doesn't make sense. He's actually dictating us what to think and how to feel.

 

 

 

Suspending your disbelief, giving yourself over to a story, is one of my favorite things about being alive.  And holding that suspension, playing with it, seeing where he can take the viewer, is part of a conversation with the storyteller, no matter if it's film, a play, a novel.  The way he gets nervous laughter from the audience when the pressure is relieved as he goes right up to the line of killing the kid and then doesn't.  Spielberg is so good at constructing these suspense scenes across his career.

 

5 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

For you. An important distinction.

 

True.  What works for one, doesn't for another.  No such thing as an "objectively good" artist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

How dare someone who's just gone through an insanely harrowing and traumatic experience have a breakdown knowing that there are people who died he might have been able to save?

 

You're trying to play the realism card. However, the real Schindler didn't cry while falling into the arms of Itzhak Stern. I would have made the scene more subtle so that it can go into different directions. I would allow the audience to participate and to think for themselves. I wouldn't turn it into a big melodrama. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

For you. An important distinction.

 

Fair enough.

 

15 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

You're trying to play the realism card. However, the real Schindler didn't cry while falling into the arms of Itzhak Stern. I would have made the scene more subtle so that it can go into different directions. I would allow the audience to participate and to think for themselves. I wouldn't turn it into a big melodrama. 

 

Not about realism. It's more so about believability - buying the scene and the emotion. Spielberg made a choice there and I buy it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The first review that actually makes me want to see the movie.

 

Quote

In its vast cinematic glory and intimate emotional appeal, Dunkirk encourages us to hail heroes whenever we have the slightest excuse, and give considerable pause before calling anyone a coward. In this it’s a war film of considerable, uncommon valor.

http://www.larsenonfilm.com/dunkirk

Link to post
Share on other sites

Skimmed through the score album now.

Yeah, it's what I suspected. More 'suite'-y versions of what you hear in the film, WITHOUT the ticking (in the film it runs all the way through), and in some cases (such as The Mole, The Oil etc) it's cut down versions of what you hear in the film. 

But holy fuck, listening to Variation 15 and the End Titles again (presented as in the film unlike everything else)....feeling a lump in my throat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.