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Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


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This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

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5 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

I definitely agree with this part of your post. Some people just wish every single film on the planet was made by Stanley Kubrick. And what a thoroughly dull medium it would be. 

That sums up my problems with most modern "prestige" films and their scores.  Tastefully dull restraint.  

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My opinion of the score is this:

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, since the Nolan/Zimmer collaboration has yielded some really special results over the years, a score like Dunkirk which serves the film to the utmost degree through almost pure atmosphere couldn't seem like anything but a step back. For the listener concerned with scores as presented on album, out of context, this will almost universally be that step back - even if, like myself, you enjoy the pure atmosphere, expertly crafted, which is on display here.  And if you don't like that type of music, then this is certainly not the thing for you.

 

Now with that said... the way that this score functions in the film is really, really something.  It's certainly one of the most ambitious approaches that I've ever heard, though not totally without precedent.  The "new way" of film music that I often refer to, wherein all concerns of standalone quality or anything similar are put aside for pure focus on what the music adds to the cinematic experience, is perhaps best exemplified here, more than in any other score I've yet encountered.  These "soundscapes" merge with the other sound design in an incredible way.  The lines are blurred here and the results are hugely immersive.  

 

The subtlety with which these soundscapes are put together is astonishing.  Fascinating and strange orchestrations, with electronic elements and manipulations, merge in and out of each other from moment to moment with kaleidoscopic results.  There's a lot of trippy shit in here, is what I'm trying to say.

 

Ultimately, I see this as a triumphant, and perhaps seminal, entry in the realm of pure cinematic music, which is nevertheless not without virtues on its own - with the right audience. Utterly singular and effective stuff.

 

AND - I will go on record, as an aficionado of the Elgar piece used, and say that I absolutely love what Wallfisch did with it.  It's quite similar to what Eno did with the Pachelbel on Discreet Music, stretching it out, refracting it.  I found it deeply moving, and it should be noted, so did the several Brits I was with.

 

FURTHER ADDENDUMS - I think this will inevitably be compared to Gravity, perhaps both film and score actually, but what we have here is far, far superior.  And for anyone curious, tracks 6, 8, 10, and 11 are credited to "Hans Plus" (Wallfisch and Balfe).  Most of the "additional music" functions on this score were to aid with picture conforms towards the end of production while Hans was touring.

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5 hours ago, Sharky said:

Before the pseudo-sophisticates took over, and audiences no longer knew how to respond to Spielberg's profound optimism. 

 

I didn't find that optimistic at all. More like a hammy recall of older movie scenes on this topic, say 'Judgement of Nuremberg' (or the aforementioned Chaplin film).

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1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

My opinion of the score is this:

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, since the Nolan/Zimmer collaboration has yielded some really special results over the years, a score like Dunkirk which serves the film to the utmost degree through almost pure atmosphere couldn't seem like anything but a step back. For the listener concerned with scores as presented on album, out of context, this will almost universally be that step back - even if, like myself, you enjoy the pure atmosphere, expertly crafted, which is on display here.  And if you don't like that type of music, then this is certainly not the thing for you.

 

Now with that said... the way that this score functions in the film is really, really something.  It's certainly one of the most ambitious approaches that I've ever heard, though not totally without precedent.  The "new way" of film music that I often refer to, wherein all concerns of standalone quality or anything similar are put aside for pure focus on what the music adds to the cinematic experience, is perhaps best exemplified here, more than in any other score I've yet encountered.  These "soundscapes" merge with the other sound design in an incredible way.  The lines are blurred here and the results are hugely immersive.  

 

The subtlety with which these soundscapes are put together is astonishing.  Fascinating and strange orchestrations, with electronic elements and manipulations, merge in and out of each other from moment to moment with kaleidoscopic results.  There's a lot of trippy shit in here, is what I'm trying to say.

 

Ultimately, I see this as a triumphant, and perhaps seminal, entry in the realm of pure cinematic music, which is nevertheless not without virtues on its own - with the right audience. Utterly singular and effective stuff.

 

AND - I will go on record, as an aficionado of the Elgar piece used, and say that I absolutely love what Wallfisch did with it.  It's quite similar to what Eno did with the Pachelbel on Discreet Music, stretching it out, refracting it.  I found it deeply moving, and it should be noted, so did the several Brits I was with.

 

FURTHER ADDENDUMS - I think this will inevitably be compared to Gravity, perhaps both film and score actually, but what we have here is far, far superior.  And for anyone curious, tracks 6, 8, 10, and 11 are credited to "Hans Plus" (Wallfisch and Balfe).  Most of the "additional music" functions on this score were to aid with picture conforms towards the end of production while Hans was touring.

 

So basically Zimmer should get an academy award nomination but in the sound editing and sound mixing categories instead of score. I always thought so too!

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Listening to a few score snippets, it probably functions fine in the movie. Not a lot to listen to really. I've heard production music that's more interesting. Actually, they probably could have just scored this using production music and achieved largely the same effect.

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10 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

So basically Zimmer should get an academy award nomination but in the sound editing and sound mixing categories instead of score. I always thought so too!

 

No. 

 

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Actually, they probably could have just scored this using production music and achieved largely the same effect.

 

No, this is hugely reductive.  I know a lot of people here don't want to give any weight to this type of music for some reason, whether or not they like it, but a close listening reveals that someone with actual skill is behind it.  To most, "production music" may sound the same on the surface, but inevitably there will be a greatly lessened quality of craft that would cheapen things. 

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3 hours ago, Richard said:

I've just listened to it. Expect an Oscar nomination, in January.

 

That's literally a given at this point because being a best picture nominee infinitely inflates your chances of getting a score nomination - something that has both helped and hurt Williams throughout his career.

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It is not bad, just very uninteresting. Few will listen to it more than once.

 

I will not lie that from the music of the trailers and the reviews that preceded the film's premiere I expected something as harshy as Inferno.

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You're right of course, but I don't know. Ideally, I'd like to see Williams get one more next year, but I've just got this feeling Zimmer is going walk away with the prize. He's long overdue. Admittedly I was almost certain he'd get it for Interstellar too, and look how that turned out. 

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I completely forgot about the Elgar in this case. If Johannsson could get snubbed last year for the Richter piece, then I better not be seeing Zimmer's name on the list of eligible scores!

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2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

You're right of course, but I don't know. Ideally, I'd like to see Williams get one more next year, but I've just got this feeling Zimmer is going walk away with the prize. He's long overdue. Admittedly I was almost certain he'd get it for Interstellar too, and look how that turned out. 

 

Huh? If you follow the Oscars, that had basically ZERO chance. It was between theory of everything and Budapest.

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Williams is never winning another Oscar.  Zimmer strikes me as someone who will get an honorary Oscar when he's 80.  Who knows.  It'll probably go to a prestige drama with 20 minutes of score.

 

It would be catastrophic if zimmer gets an honorary oscar and Williams doesn't.

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8 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

It would be catastrophic if zimmer gets an honorary oscar and Williams doesn't.

 

Huh?  Not always, but usually the honorary Oscar is for a industry legend who never won a competitive Oscar.  Williams has won 5.  He will never get another Oscar, competitive or honorary.

 

I might be wrong, but that's my prediction.

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4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Huh?  Not always, but usually the honorary Oscar is for a industry legend who never won a competitive Oscar.  Williams has won 5.  He will never get another Oscar, competitive or honorary.

 

I would argue he deserves one of each. I think had the marketing gimmick of 'Morricone never won an Oscar' not been in play, Williams would have won in 15. And I think he must have lost for memoirs in 05 by not a lot. It was a tight race and infact most people predicted Williams would win. Rest of his nominations post Schindler, I don't really think he had a chance to win in any of the individual years. 05 and 15 were his two best shots.

16 minutes ago, James said:

An Oscar nomination even with so many names with composition credit on the album? Zimmer and six additional composers?

 

 

In the film proper only Zimmer is credited I believe. And the others will sign an affidavit saying zimmer composed 80-90% of the music. 

 

Zimmer and JNH were disqualified in 2008 because the academy deemed that atleast 30-40% of the score was not composed by them even though music editor Alex Gibson, ambient music designer Mel Wesson and composer Lorne Balfe signed an affidavit saying that Zimmer and JNH composed most of it. Batman Begins was disqualified too.

 

So I dunno how Zimmer qualifies for any score seeing he has co-writers on most things it seems.

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57 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

In the film proper only Zimmer is credited I believe. And the others will sign an affidavit saying zimmer composed 80-90% of the music. 

 

Zimmer and JNH were disqualified in 2008 because the academy deemed that atleast 30-40% of the score was not composed by them even though music editor Alex Gibson, ambient music designer Mel Wesson and composer Lorne Balfe signed an affidavit saying that Zimmer and JNH composed most of it. Batman Begins was disqualified too.

 

So I dunno how Zimmer qualifies for any score seeing he has co-writers on most things it seems.

 

His last nominations were for Sherlock, Inception and Interstellar.


For the first two, he was careful to split the credit only with Balfe. And in Interstellar he maintained the idea that he composed the whole soundtrack by himself.

Which is not the case here.

 

If they accept the percentage of 10% to 20%, this standard will not work here since 4 tracks of the score are not entirely composed by him. 

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3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Not always, but usually the honorary Oscar is for a industry legend who never won a competitive Oscar.

 

That has been the trend especially lately, yeah. Miyazaki's one of the few recent ones I can think of who was given an honorary Oscar after he'd already won competitively. I suppose Zimmer could if he never wins a second.

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I think Williams will get nominated for TLJ and Papers (and lose for both with the split vote). The music wing won't miss a chance to reward him with nominations if both films are acclaimed.

 

I think, if he can score IX and finish a third SW trilogy, voters might reward him for the sheer magnitude of the achievement. He has a mediocre director and May release date working against him, though.

 

If Spielberg does Mortara next year and hits it out of the park, that might be his best chance to win. December release, no double nomination, Oscar-bait.

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1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Zimmer credits everybody on the sheet music. Whatever the Academy does is pointless anyway. They gave Gustavo Santaolalla an Oscar for a Sakamoto piece. 

 

Okay

 

:thumbup:

 

Just said that in the first two he worked with just one additional composer. And that in the third he counted with two of his usual collaborators in secondary functions. It's more easy to point out who did what like that.

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8 hours ago, KK said:

I completely forgot about the Elgar in this case. If Johannsson could get snubbed last year for the Richter piece, then I better not be seeing Zimmer's name on the list of eligible scores!

 

Did Zimmer used the original theme though? I am not sure because I am not familiar with the theme. I read that Elgar's theme was used but it was rendered unrecognizable. Wasn't the issue with Arrival the fact that he used Richter's piece and never properly credit that anywhere? The piece wasn't even in the album.  

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7 hours ago, James said:

 

His last nominations were for Sherlock, Inception and Interstellar.


For the first two, he was careful to split the credit only with Balfe. And in Interstellar he maintained the idea that he composed the whole soundtrack by himself.

Which is not the case here.

 

If they accept the percentage of 10% to 20%, this standard will not work here since 4 tracks of the score are not entirely composed by him. 

 

they could be nice and submit ALL of the music from the film rather than this hacked up album

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13 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

Did Zimmer used the original theme though? I am not sure because I am not familiar with the theme. I read that Elgar's theme was used but it was rendered unrecognizable. Wasn't the issue with Arrival the fact that he used Richter's piece and never properly credit that anywhere? The piece wasn't even in the album.  

The Academy will disqualify scores if they use preexisting music in key dramatic scenes in the film. It has nothing to do with credit. Either way, all music is credited in the film's... credits. 

5 minutes ago, MedigoScan said:

 

they could be nice and submit ALL of the music from the film rather than this hacked up album

Every score submitted for consideration is the music as it appears in film. Score albums are produced for fans to listen to away from the film. 

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