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Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


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This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

This thread  

For the love of god, it's just this one track and it probably isn't representative of the whole thing. And frankly, the Nolan/Zimmer collaboration never made my mouth water, anyway. Except for parts of 'Inception' and larger parts of 'Interstellar' i could part with them all and wouldn't even notice.

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5 hours ago, karelm said:

Ocelot,isn't it a bit hypocritical to complain about Zimmer's lazy writing for using a simple samples but go on to say you know these are single finger samples because you "just used them on the first episode...same loop and string figures"?  Sure you go on to say judge your writing skills by other music but surely Zimmer would say judge his musicality on something he is most proud of.

Hey like it or not, samples is the way forward these days. Studios don't want to pay for full orchestra unless it's the bigger movies and even then it's struggle to get them to pay. I am not judging him on using samples. But write something while you use the samples. Write around it. Write something simple but interesting. Not one note... I have Zimmer Soundtracks (lets be honest though, who knows who wrote what in them, lol) But I own them. I like some of his factory's work.

 

As for the person who said I am self important and plugging myself or something and that I don't have a studio at home because I am a big shot or whatever. Lets take it the other way. I don't have a studio at home because I have no room for a studio in my house. It's not because I am some big shot. It's because at home I just have my piano, and even that is in my living/dining room and until this TV project I have never had need of a studio, all my writing is pencil to paper and then I orchestrate into Finale. I like doing everything myself.

 

Plugging myself, well, lets see. This is my job, I'm a small fry in Hollywood but I am proud of everything I do. If I didn't plug myself who will? Isn't that the point though? To learn to be proud enough of your work to share it? No matter who is going to say what about it? There are those people who will hate me and those who will like me. Same with what I write. But I'm OK with that.

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

For the love of god, it's just this one track and it probably isn't representative of the whole thing. And frankly, the Nolan/Zimmer collaboration never made my mouth water, anyway. Except for parts of 'Inception' and larger parts of 'Interstellar' i could part with them all and wouldn't even notice.

 

Quite the contrary, that duo is one of the best things that has happened to mainstream Hollywood cinema in many, many years.

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2 hours ago, ocelot said:

Plugging myself, well, lets see. This is my job, I'm a small fry in Hollywood but I am proud of everything I do. If I didn't plug myself who will? Isn't that the point though? To learn to be proud enough of your work to share it? No matter who is going to say what about it? There are those people who will hate me and those who will like me. Same with what I write. But I'm OK with that.

 

When I referred to you "plugging" your own work, I only did so because it seemed irrelevant to the conversation at hand, and I'd noticed you do that before.  It's your prerogative and responsibility to market yourself, of course, I just find it odd to do so in the middle of a debate as some kind of professional trump card.

 

As for who wrote what on a Zimmer score, it's quite simple to determine: look at the credits, and listen for the different musical voices present.  Hans' is very distinctive.  It gets harder when trying to determine if something is, say, Hans going out on a limb, or Lorne doing his own thing, but ultimately it doesn't matter!

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25 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

From what I understand, the Inception connection is just that there are three different strands of story happening at different fronts of the battle and at different speeds, which eventually converge.  

Sounds like Cloud Atlas!

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On 09/07/2017 at 8:27 PM, Thor said:

Business as usual in the JWFAN forum, I see.

 

I really like this track. Love the propulsive nature of it (without sounding generic). 

 

If you don't think this is generic, then you don't listen to as much music as I thought you did. It's about as generic as it gets within the confines of the soundtrack medium. 

 

8 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

As for who wrote what on a Zimmer score, it's quite simple to determine: look at the credits, and listen for the different musical voices present.  Hans' is very distinctive.  It gets harder when trying to determine if something is, say, Hans going out on a limb, or Lorne doing his own thing, but ultimately it doesn't matter!

 

Actually, this track from Dunkirk could just as well be Steve Jablonsky,  or even Henry Jackman (have you seen Captain Phillips?). I really rate Balfe btw, but he's sadly not done much I've enjoyed lately. I think he's needs a good blockbuster job. 

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Don't forget I pay attention to quite a bit of video game music, which is where Balfe cut his cloth. I only know of his name after googling pieces, to find his name beside them. He does that electro orchestral rhythmic suspense sound very well, which I'm a fan of. 

 

 

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Yeah i only skimmed through his film work which i find extremely workmanlike (even for current film music). Be that as it may, i expect the score to have a 'Das Boot' vibe, meaning at least one big tune of fate and such stuff. No composer of Zimmer's stature will let a picture this big go without such id card.

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17 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Balfe is the best composer to come out of RCP since Powell. Check out his score to Churchill; not the style Quint was looking for, but a really elegant dramatic score.

 

It's well 'produced' but really a collection of static chords. No harmonic or thematic distinction, it's the epitome of identity-free scoring that is either crawling in slo-mo or choppy strings (for motion!) so en vogue in tv these days. Sadly tv only blooms when it features songs.

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10 minutes ago, publicist said:

Sadly tv only blooms when it features songs.

 

I've heard some really good things in TV shows (David Carbonara, for instance). Of course, if you looking for wall-to-wall symphonic writing, then TV is perhaps not the place for you. ;)

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16 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

I've heard some really good things in TV shows (David Carbonara, for instance). Of course, if you looking for wall-to-wall symphonic writing, then TV is perhaps not the place for you. ;)

 

I don't mean short bridging cues from 'Mad Men', Alex.;)

 

I talk about mostly historical series which would need it (Vikings!). McCreary stuff like 'Outlander' is a relatively good example how you can apply writing that is not totally devoid of emotional guidance or, as i usually describe it, stay the fuck out of the way-music that tv composers often employ. I tried so many BBC series channeling Charles Dickens that cried out for a good score (symphnic, solistic, whatever) and were left hanging by the sound track.

 

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On 10/07/2017 at 3:51 AM, Blumenkohl said:

 

Guess you can do anything in 10 minutes if you shamelessly ape 10 other composers in 7.5 minutes. 

 

It's true ocelot can come across like a bit of a dick in this thread, but your reply to him is no better. And given the choice, I'll take his crude confrontation over your typically cheap riposte, bereft of class and even insight as is often the case. 

 

I mean, ocelot did put his money where his mouth is in this dispute, and so far I think he's the winner. Why don't you armchair composers/critics/whatever do the same? Are you brave? Are you "proud" enough? 

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11 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

As for who wrote what on a Zimmer score, it's quite simple to determine: look at the credits, and listen for the different musical voices present.  Hans' is very distinctive.  It gets harder when trying to determine if something is, say, Hans going out on a limb, or Lorne doing his own thing, but ultimately it doesn't matter!

 

Well, whether it matters who wrote what, is a different debate.

 

However I'd disagree that Zimmer is particularly distinctive compared to Jablonsky/Orvarsson. I rely entirely on booklets to tell who wrote what in most cases.

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I watched the whole of Captain Phillips recently (excellent movie) being absolutely convinced I was listening to Hans Zimmer, so I was fully expecting to see his name come up on the end credits. I was genuinely surprised when it said Henry Jackman. 

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2 hours ago, publicist said:

 

It's well 'produced' but really a collection of static chords. No harmonic or thematic distinction, it's the epitome of identity-free scoring that is either crawling in slo-mo or choppy strings (for motion!) so en vogue in tv these days. Sadly tv only blooms when it features songs.

 

Yep.

 

I feel a huge difference between what Powell routinely comes up with, and this. I'm having the same reaction I did when listening to Zanelli's The Pacific: competent, but almost entirely devoid of any really inspiring/standout moments. 'Static' is definitely a word I'd use.

 

I think (as mentioned already) and Gold's Who music is an example of how to do it better.

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2 hours ago, publicist said:

 

I don't mean short bridging cues from 'Mad Men', Alex.;)

 

I talk about mostly historical series which would need it (Vikings!). McCreary stuff like 'Outlander' is a relatively good example how you can apply writing that is not totally devoid of emotional guidance or, as i usually describe it, stay the fuck out of the way-music that tv composers often employ. I tried so many BBC series channeling Charles Dickens that cried out for a good score (symphnic, solistic, whatever) and were left hanging by the sound track.

 

 

If you're looking for some bold, traditional, symphonic scoring for TV of a recent date, there is still plenty of that. Check out, for example, Federico Jusid's brilliant stuff (CARLOS - REY EMPERADOR, GRAN RESERVA and especially ISABEL) Bei Wang's AERIAL CHINA, Henrik Skram's SNOW FALL, Barnaby Taylor's BORN IN CHINA, Paanu Altio's TALE OF A LAKE and TALE OF A FOREST, Anne Dudley's POLDARK, Mac Richter's THE LEFTOVERS (not "bold", perhaps, but amazingly gorgeous),  Stefano Caprioli's FURORE and IL SEGRETO DI BORGO LARICI, Silvestri's COSMOS (which also has some great electronic stuff), Naoki Sato's MORIBITO: GUARDIANS OF THE SPIRIT and many more.

 

Sometimes, you just have to look outside American TV shows.

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Well, let's be realistic here. I'm not gonna watch stuff that isn't even available in my country just because it MIGHT have good music. The four on this list i already know from Spotify range from agreeable (Altio, Dudley) to meh (Richter) but i gladly invest some time in the others. 

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There's far too much stuff well worth watching anyway, so most of the time you just gotta hope you drop lucky with little happy coincidences in the things you do pick - such as actual good musical underscore. Years ago that was almost a given, but now it's more of a lottery. 

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

If you're looking for some bold, traditional, symphonic scoring for TV of a recent date, there is still plenty of that. Check out, for example, Federico Jusid's brilliant stuff (CARLOS - REY EMPERADOR, GRAN RESERVA and especially ISABEL) Bei Wang's AERIAL CHINA, Henrik Skram's SNOW FALL, Barnaby Taylor's BORN IN CHINA, Paanu Altio's TALE OF A LAKE and TALE OF A FOREST, Anne Dudley's POLDARK, Mac Richter's THE LEFTOVERS (not "bold", perhaps, but amazingly gorgeous),  Stefano Caprioli's FURORE and IL SEGRETO DI BORGO LARICI, Silvestri's COSMOS (which also has some great electronic stuff), Naoki Sato's MORIBITO: GUARDIANS OF THE SPIRIT and many more.

 

Talking about bold, traditional symphonic scoring, and you forget a major one! Bah!

 

EDIT: Never mind, didn't pay attention to "of a recent date". You're partially forgiven.

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Most of the stuff i watch isn't well-suited to great scoring but when i watch the odd 'historical' series ('Black Sails', 'Great Expectations', 'Versailles', 'The Borgias', 'Medici' etc.) the score mostly slaves away in the background and could've shaped the drama much more effectively.

 

My main beef with most composers (also see above) is the reliance on those deadly even meters that sound so uniform and unexciting. 

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3 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

It's true ocelot can come across like a bit of a dick in this thread, but your reply to him is no better. And given the choice, I'll take his crude confrontation over your typically cheap riposte, bereft of class and even insight as is often the case. 

 

I mean, ocelot did put his money with his mouth is in this dispute, and so far I think he's the winner. Why don't you armchair composers/critics/whatever do the same? Are you brave? Are you "proud" enough? 

 

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