Now that we have the Complete JP from LLL, is the 20th anniversary JP completely redundant?

[Tydirium 1,166]

Why would anyone assume otherwise?

[Jay 37,268]

So you believe that for all 100+ scores he has has written, 100% of the time he had "a lot of time" to think about, oversee, and evaluate the OST album's version of the score?  Interesting...

[Tydirium 1,166]

Maybe not "a lot of time", but Williams definitely has been involved in choosing what goes on the albums. Why do you seem to be implying that I'm making some crazy statement? Lol. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this board long lamented the fact that he seems in-love with his OSTs to the point of not really wanting expanded/complete releases (until more recently)? People always lay the blame directly at Williams for what does/does not get included on the initial OST releases. And they also praise him for when OST arrangements are very cleverly edited. He is a producer on most if not all of his initial OST releases; why would anyone think he is not actively involved in the production?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

John Williams is multi Grammy winning album producer. Of course she spends time carefully crafting his albums. Why would anyone think otherwise?

[Holko 9,491]

20 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

But you haven't even listened to the JP OST. So how can you speak with any authority on this subject when it comes to this score? You haven't even heard it to know whether you like/dislike "his butcherings" (bit of a harsh way to put it).

I've seen the tracklist or parts of it multiple times, know the score, and can extrapolate from knowing other OSTs of his.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

So you believe that for all 100+ scores he has has written, 100% of the time he had "a lot of time" to think about, oversee, and evaluate the OST album's version of the score?  Interesting...

And for a good while of his producing time, he's been seriously restricted by the LP runtime, and even with CDs he's restricted by the CD runtime, or chooses to restrict himself.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

 

He's seen the tracklist! 

[Jay 37,268]

Of course there are many scores where a lot of time and effort were spent to craft a strong listening experience. 

 

There are also many cases where there just wasn't enough time to devote to that and a program was quickly thrown together. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

So you believe that for all 100+ scores he has has written, 100% of the time he had "a lot of time" to think about, oversee, and evaluate the OST album's version of the score?  Interesting...

 

I guess what Tydirium means is that by simply listening to a JW album, you (usually) hear that a lot of effort has been done to make it a good listening experience apart from the film. 

[Holko 9,491]

And with a lot of them, whether or not he succeeded at that is very much up for debate.

[Tydirium 1,166]

11 minutes ago, Holko said:

I've seen the tracklist or parts of it multiple times, know the score, and can extrapolate from knowing other OSTs of his.

 

Hahahaha. But you just said a few comments ago that there are other OSTs of his which you prefer over their scores. But yet somehow, you just know that this one is worse? OK. And fyi, a track-list doesn't tell you much; you should know by now that an OST track can feature the same name as a score cue, and yet include more music. Or that, just because you don't see your favorite score cue's title on the track-list, doesn't mean the music isn't still present in another track on the OST. You're making a whole lot of assumptions, when really you should just go listen to the album before you decide to say anything more on the subject.

 

5 minutes ago, Holko said:

And with a lot of them, whether or not he succeeded at that is very much up for debate.

 

But if you're not going to listen to them (even after they've been out for 26 years!), how would you know? You've already indicated that some have succeeded in your eyes, and are even better than their respective scores—so why are you so dismissive of the JP OST when you haven't even sat down and listened once? And heck, I'm not even arguing that the JP OST is overall better than the score; I love the LLL presentation as well. I'm just saying that it's at the very least a valid listening experience and that one or two tracks may be better than their LLL counterparts. But you are automatically dismissive.

[mstrox 6,637]

Disney Records would have been all over an "extended version" release of the Star Wars scores, either on double CD or digitally or both - just look at their outsized OST releases for Black Panther and the recent Avengers movies.  That leads me to believe that Williams had no interest in an 81+ minute presentation of those scores.

[Tydirium 1,166]

9 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Disney Records would have been all over an "extended version" release of the Star Wars scores, either on double CD or digitally or both - just look at their outsized OST releases for Black Panther and the recent Avengers movies.  That leads me to believe that Williams had no interest in an 81+ minute presentation of those scores.

 

Which means, for better or worse, he likes his OST presentations. Which means his OST presentations have artistic value in his eyes and are worth listening to at least once in your life. Imagine going 26 years without listening to a top John Williams OST, and then still refusing to take the time to listen to it even when other JW fans are saying it's good. Just because @Holko has heard the "complete" score and so therefore somehow knows exactly what the OST sounds like.  Weird.

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

The only JW OST presentation since 1975 that I don't really care for, is War of the Worlds.

[mstrox 6,637]

I think that the music in the TPM OST presentation is all great, and I like listening to it - but the arrangement and omissions make for a fairly poor representation of the score as a whole, for what that's worth.

[Tydirium 1,166]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The only JW OST presentation since Jaws that I don't really care for, is War of the Worlds.

 

At least you've listened to have an informed opinion! 

[Holko 9,491]

12 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

...

With all the legal bullshit making Mike keep track titles if they're not changed, or having to indicate "film version", and knowing what are the new tracks on the 2013 and the LLL, I do have a pretty good idea what's on there. I just have absolutely zero interest in regressing to the middleman when I can make better use of my time listening to the actual thing that I know I really like and don't wanna hear mushed up, or something else.

[wowbobwow 69]

10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Disney Records would have been all over an "extended version" release of the Star Wars scores, either on double CD or digitally or both - just look at their outsized OST releases for Black Panther and the recent Avengers movies.  That leads me to believe that Williams had no interest in an 81+ minute presentation of those scores.

 

Mando's entire score is available as well, isn't it?

[Holko 9,491]

Nope.

[Tydirium 1,166]

Just now, mstrox said:

I think that the music in the TPM OST presentation is all great, and I like listening to it - but the arrangement and omissions make for a fairly poor representation of the score as a whole, for what that's worth.

 

Yeah, I agree completely. And that's another great point worth mentioning—that just because I like some OST versions of tracks better than the expanded/complete versions, doesn't mean I still think the OST included all the music it should have. My biggest gripe with Williams' OSTs is not his track arrangements, but rather the missing score highlights. But when something is available both on the OST and on a later expanded release, it is definitely not uncommon for me to still come back to Williams' original OST version.

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

The best use of his time would be to listen to the JP OST instead of keeping defending his conflicting arguments.

[wowbobwow 69]

Well, even if it's not, the first season's music available on a soundtrack is 3 hours 15 minutes.

[Tydirium 1,166]

23 minutes ago, Holko said:

With all the legal bullshit making Mike keep track titles if they're not changed, or having to indicate "film version", and knowing what are the new tracks on the 2013 and the LLL, I do have a pretty good idea what's on there. I just have absolutely zero interest in regressing to the middleman when I can make better use of my time listening to the actual thing that I know I really like and don't wanna hear mushed up, or something else.

 

Get back to us after you've listened to the OST.

[Holko 9,491]

I won't because I don't care. This convo is about 20 times as much thought as I have ever given it before.

[Tydirium 1,166]

Then maybe you should also not care enough to comment. You're uninformed.

[Holko 9,491]

Someone kept putting words in my mouth and painting me as weird for thinking the writing of the score to be the real achievement, not the later cutting down of said score for some supposed listening experience.

[Tydirium 1,166]

You're the one who said "the real thing", and who referred to "butcherings" when it comes to JW's OST tracks. As if these are not valid, crafted listening experiences. You're also the one who seems unable/unwilling to fathom that it's possible for an OST track to be more enjoyable than its complete score counterpart—which was the whole topic of discussion you were commenting about. I was talking about the listening experience of an OST track vs. a LLL track, so why would you even comment if you haven't even heard the OST? Makes no sense.

[Holko 9,491]

You said you were unable to choose or something, I offered my honest view of why the LLL is fine as is, which I saw was different to a lot of people's.

[Bellosh 3,369]

The Shark Cage Fugue as track #4 on the 2000 Decca release is one of JW's best decisions of all time.

[Tydirium 1,166]

5 minutes ago, Holko said:

You said you were unable to choose or something, I offered my honest view of why the LLL is fine as is, which I saw was different to a lot of people's.

 

Just because something is fine as it is, does not mean it's impossible for something to be better than it. You seem to imply that you think the complete versions are always the epitome, that there is no way the OST versions could be more enjoyable. It's weird; based on your comments in this thread I feel like even if you had 50 people telling you that an OST track is more enjoyable than the LLL version, you would still not listen to the OST out of some strange stubbornness...

[Holko 9,491]

There, be happy, I listened to a bit of the OST version of Incident because I just can't fathom how those two would even fit together: surprise, what a weak horrible fucking transition point. My opinion stated in that first post hasn't changed, just became stronger.

[Jay 37,268]

I can't recall if I've ever seen a conversation go around in circles so many times so rapidly before. Jeez you guys, people have different opinions about things sometimes, isn't it nice we can express them here?  There's no need to argue about it!

[Bellosh 3,369]

@Jurassic Shark is laughing at my comment, and yes I meant to place it in there to cool this thread down, but I was being serious.  I think it's a brilliant decision to bring some calm to the opening of the OST. 

[Datameister 2,034]

There are elements of the JP OST that I really like, but the way the end of the film is handled really ruins it for me. I loooooove going from the triumphant conclusion of T-Rex to the Rescue to the peaceful piano solo that eventually leads to the full end credits. It's such a perfect way to wrap up the score; I can't fathom why they didn't take that route for the original album.

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

7 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

@Jurassic Shark is laughing at my comment, and yes I meant to place it in there to cool this thread down, but I was being serious.  I think it's a brilliant decision to bring some calm to the opening of the OST. 

 

I thought you were making a nerdy joke by referring to the 2000 Decca release as the OST.

[Bellosh 3,369]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I thought you were making a nerdy joke by referring to the 2000 Decca release as the OST.

 

lol whoops.  Nah I know that it's not the OST.  I'll edit it.

[Tydirium 1,166]

56 minutes ago, Holko said:

There, be happy, I listened to a bit of the OST version of Incident because I just can't fathom how those two would even fit together: surprise, what a weak horrible fucking transition point. My opinion stated in that first post hasn't changed, just became stronger.

 

Thanks for listening. 

[Bellosh 3,369]

The ole' JWFan Forum Trademark Special.

 

You could start a topic about the Indy fanfare inserts in the Last Crusade and on page two there's a high level discussion on why Crystal Pepsi should be brought back to the marketplace.  

[Richard Penna 3,667]

I'm fairly sure this started in the original JP box release thread, where at least a couple of people said that they preferred the OST to the expansion after years and years of complaining about the lack of expansion 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

6 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

But you haven't even listened to the JP OST. So how can you speak with any authority on this subject when it comes to this score? You haven't even heard it to know whether you like/dislike "his butcherings" (bit of a harsh way to put it).

 

Holko is a Gen Z snowflake and hasn't learned to govern his passions. It's useless trying to debate this stuff with him.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I was about to post that Holko is the Thor of C&C but mstrox already did.

[Jurassic Shark 12,009]

5 hours ago, Þekþiþm said:

I was about to post that Holko is the Thor of C&C but mstrox already did.

 

Yeah, he's the anti-Thor. Only together they will bring balance.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

31 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Yeah, he's the anti-Thor. Only together they will bring balance.

 

Balance of the Thorce.