John Williams: Unpopular Opinions

[Arpy 4,145]

@Edmilson I agree concerning Ren's Themes. The thing I love about the Imperial March/Vader's Theme is that it has the range to sound menacing without being forceful. Some of the quieter statements of Vader's Theme sound deliciously evil without needing to bash us over the head with how evil he is. 

That also speaks to the sense that Vader doesn't seem inherently evil compared to Kylo Ren.

 

That said, I like how Williams uses Ren's main theme as a sort of punctuation - it's short and punchy whereas Vader's theme is longer and more malleable..

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

I find the ending to the Jaws concert arrangement but muscially and dramatically unsatisfying, if not downright cheesy. I don't know what compelled him to finish it a melodramatic chord... I appreciate that it's a more definitive ending, but the whole idea (as far as I can tell) is that it somewhat mirrors a shark attack. The approach at the beginning, the attack in the middle (albeit the Out to Sea melody appearing means it's too adventuruous for this concept to work fully) then the shark swimming away as the two note theme fades out. A bit dramatic duh-duh-duuuuuh at the end is awful. I almost always skip it.

 

As others have commented, I agree that the new Han and Leia arrangement doesn't work. I wonder why he even thought to re-write it?! Seems unlikely that he forget that he already had one, but the original has much more sweep which fits the old fashioned leanings of the original Star Wars trilogy much better. He also changes the main melody slightly which gives it a more finite feel and removes some of the longing. That decision seems especially curious. The style of the development section in the middle tonally doesn't fit with the style of the original Star Wars scores (no surprise since the re-write is almost almost 40 years later) and is just really unsatisfying. Having said all that, it would be nice to have a proper recording of it, but I will definitely be sticking with the original.

 

The second and third scores in both the Star Wars prequel and sequel trilogies feel like Williams was increasingly bored with the material (in terms of the films). Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens have a profusion of great new ideas, but the sequels to those films have a far lower abundance of interesting new material. Contrast that with the original trilogy where both Empire and Jedi have new material that is the equal of that from the original Star Wars.

 

Solo is the best Star Wars score since Revenge of the Sith. On that note, the way the Revenge of the Sith end credits is cobbled together features both the best and worst musical transitions in a Star Wars credits (ignoring the no effort editing for Phanton Menace and Attack of the Clones)...the way the running figure that underpins Battle of the Heroes appears under the high point of Leia's Theme is the kind of simple but masterful transition that really makes a great end credit sequence. However, it but also the worst when the second appearance of the Throne Room kinda has a lazy stop at 11.12 and the main theme just appears again. Why on earth he didn't just use the standard Throne Room to main theme transition at that point I have no idea...

 

Oh and final thing... (but probably not overtly controversial) the string led transition to the End Credits from the original Star Wars is massively better than the brassy one he used from Empire onwards and is in the concert arrangement.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

46 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I find the ending to the Jaws concert arrangement but muscially and dramatically unsatisfying, if not downright cheesy. I don't know what compelled him to finish it a melodramatic chord... I appreciate that it's a more definitive ending, but the whole idea (as far as I can tell) is that it somewhat mirrors a shark attack. The approach at the beginning, the attack in the middle (albeit the Out to Sea melody appearing means it's too adventuruous for this concept to work fully) then the shark swimming away as the two note theme fades out. A bit dramatic duh-duh-duuuuuh at the end is awful. I almost always skip it.

 

As others have commented, I agree that the new Han and Leia arrangement doesn't work. I wonder why he even thought to re-write it?! Seems unlikely that he forget that he already had one, but the original has much more sweep which fits the old fashioned leanings of the original Star Wars trilogy much better. He also changes the main melody slightly which gives it a more finite feel and removes some of the longing. That decision seems especially curious. The style of the development section in the middle tonally doesn't fit with the style of the original Star Wars scores (no surprise since the re-write is almost almost 40 years later) and is just really unsatisfying. Having said all that, it would be nice to have a proper recording of it, but I will definitely be sticking with the original.

 

The second and third scores in both the Star Wars prequel and sequel trilogies feel like Williams was increasingly bored with the material (in terms of the films). Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens have a profusion of great new ideas, but the sequels to those films have a far lower abundance of interesting new material. Contrast that with the original trilogy where both Empire and Jedi have new material that is the equal of that from the original Star Wars.

 

Solo is the best Star Wars score since Revenge of the Sith. On that note, the way the Revenge of the Sith end credits is cobbled together features both the best and worst musical transitions in a Star Wars credits (ignoring the no effort editing for Phanton Menace and Attack of the Clones)...the way the running figure that underpins Battle of the Heroes appears under the high point of Leia's Theme is the kind of simple but masterful transition that really makes a great end credit sequence. However, it but also the worst when the second appearance of the Throne Room kinda has a lazy stop at 11.12 and the main theme just appears again. Why on earth he didn't just use the standard Throne Room to main theme transition at that point I have no idea...

 

Oh and final thing... (but probably not overtly controversial) the string led transition to the End Credits from the original Star Wars is massively better than the brassy one he used from Empire onwards and is in the concert arrangement.

 

Sincerely cannot disagree more basically everything you say!! 

 

Long post, too much BS to even argue to but to say Solo is the best SW score since TROS is just..... No comments. They will ban me. 

 

It's not even a SW score

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I find the ending to the Jaws concert arrangement but muscially and dramatically unsatisfying, if not downright cheesy. I don't know what compelled him to finish it a melodramatic chord... I appreciate that it's a more definitive ending, but the whole idea (as far as I can tell) is that it somewhat mirrors a shark attack. The approach at the beginning, the attack in the middle (albeit the Out to Sea melody appearing means it's too adventuruous for this concept to work fully) then the shark swimming away as the two note theme fades out. A bit dramatic duh-duh-duuuuuh at the end is awful. I almost always skip it.

 

As others have commented, I agree that the new Han and Leia arrangement doesn't work. I wonder why he even thought to re-write it?! Seems unlikely that he forget that he already had one, but the original has much more sweep which fits the old fashioned leanings of the original Star Wars trilogy much better. He also changes the main melody slightly which gives it a more finite feel and removes some of the longing. That decision seems especially curious. The style of the development section in the middle tonally doesn't fit with the style of the original Star Wars scores (no surprise since the re-write is almost almost 40 years later) and is just really unsatisfying. Having said all that, it would be nice to have a proper recording of it, but I will definitely be sticking with the original.

 

The second and third scores in both the Star Wars prequel and sequel trilogies feel like Williams was increasingly bored with the material (in terms of the films). Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens have a profusion of great new ideas, but the sequels to those films have a far lower abundance of interesting new material. Contrast that with the original trilogy where both Empire and Jedi have new material that is the equal of that from the original Star Wars.

 

Solo is the best Star Wars score since Revenge of the Sith. On that note, the way the Revenge of the Sith end credits is cobbled together features both the best and worst musical transitions in a Star Wars credits (ignoring the no effort editing for Phanton Menace and Attack of the Clones)...the way the running figure that underpins Battle of the Heroes appears under the high point of Leia's Theme is the kind of simple but masterful transition that really makes a great end credit sequence. However, it but also the worst when the second appearance of the Throne Room kinda has a lazy stop at 11.12 and the main theme just appears again. Why on earth he didn't just use the standard Throne Room to main theme transition at that point I have no idea...

 

Oh and final thing... (but probably not overtly controversial) the string led transition to the End Credits from the original Star Wars is massively better than the brassy one he used from Empire onwards and is in the concert arrangement.

Nah

[Arpy 4,145]

The new arrangement of Han Solo and the Princess is one of my favourite pieces Williams has written in the last decade.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

9 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I find the ending to the Jaws concert arrangement but muscially and dramatically unsatisfying, if not downright cheesy. I don't know what compelled him to finish it a melodramatic chord... I appreciate that it's a more definitive ending, but the whole idea (as far as I can tell) is that it somewhat mirrors a shark attack. The approach at the beginning, the attack in the middle (albeit the Out to Sea melody appearing means it's too adventuruous for this concept to work fully) then the shark swimming away as the two note theme fades out. A bit dramatic duh-duh-duuuuuh at the end is awful. I almost always skip it.

 

As others have commented, I agree that the new Han and Leia arrangement doesn't work. I wonder why he even thought to re-write it?! Seems unlikely that he forget that he already had one, but the original has much more sweep which fits the old fashioned leanings of the original Star Wars trilogy much better. He also changes the main melody slightly which gives it a more finite feel and removes some of the longing. That decision seems especially curious. The style of the development section in the middle tonally doesn't fit with the style of the original Star Wars scores (no surprise since the re-write is almost almost 40 years later) and is just really unsatisfying. Having said all that, it would be nice to have a proper recording of it, but I will definitely be sticking with the original.

I am not a fan of his concert arrangements in general, because he just streamlines the themes so that they all sound the same emotionally by ending with a clichéd orchestral outburst. I even sold my Williams-Spielberg-collaboration-box.

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

I am not a fan of his concert arrangements in general, because he just streamlines the themes so that they all sound the same emotionally by ending with a clichéd orchestral outburst. I even sold my Williams-Spielberg-collaboration-box.

I can get that although I do enjoy pretty much all of his other concert arrangements. Although as someone else commented earlier in this thread, his false endings can be a bit tiresome at times, especially when they feel forced (the Adventures of Han for example just seems to kinda pick up again after seemingly coming to a close). Having said that, there are several adapted from actual film cues where I prefer the film versions, particularly the Asteroid Field, the sweep into Han and Leia’s theme at the end is much more satisfying to me than the way the concert arrangement fizzles out in an oddly non-bombastic way.

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

The new arrangement of Han Solo and the Princess is one of my favourite pieces Williams has written in the last decade.

Maybe I need to give it another try. I’m willing to be persuaded. Perhaps I’m just too used to the original version.

[publicist 4,643]

11 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

The second and third scores in both the Star Wars prequel and sequel trilogies feel like Williams was increasingly bored with the material (in terms of the films). Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens have a profusion of great new ideas, but the sequels to those films have a far lower abundance of interesting new material. Contrast that with the original trilogy where both Empire and Jedi have new material that is the equal of that from the original Star Wars.

 

OK, i second that Jaws tutti finish is a bit hokey, but all prequels/sequels feature noteworthy updates, though many in idioms the conservative Williams fans often does not dig (i. e. the harsh and dissonant material in AOTC and ROTS, which imho is the epitome of 'interesting'). For the Disney things i'd say the most musically interesting piece is still The Rebellion is Reborn that leads two disparate thematic strains together with considerable skill (the last one had a Horneresque goodbye theme i also place ahead of Rey's very straightforward theme). 

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

8 minutes ago, publicist said:

Rey's very straightforward theme

 

Catchy title!

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

 

OK, i second that Jaws tutti finish is a bit hokey, but all prequels/sequels feature noteworthy updates, though many in idioms the conservative Williams fans often does not dig (i. e. the harsh and dissonant material in AOTC and ROTS, which imho is the epitome of 'interesting'). For the Disney things i'd say the most musically interesting piece is still The Rebellion is Reborn that leads two disparate thematic strains together with considerable skill (the last one had a Horneresque goodbye theme i also place ahead of Rey's very straightforward theme). 

Don't get me wrong, the second and third films in both series feature lots of great music, although I'm still not that taken on episodes 8 and 9, but episodes 2 and 3 are excellent, but neither features the profusion of ideas that The Phantom Menace did. Each of Empire and Jedi featured almost as many new themes as the original Star Wars, but the new material from episodes 2 & 3 and 8 & 9 isn't (for me, at least) as strong as that from 1 and 7. The Rebellion is Reborn has some nice moments and is a great theme, but the arrangement feels quite unfocussed.

 

Final unpopular opinion... Jerry Goldsmith would have been a better choice for Saving Private Ryan. Great score, but I think Goldsmith would have dug more into the bleakness of the situation. Williams' score frequently feels too warm and comforting... but I concede that could be a side effect of it being a Spielberg film. Then again, it's a shame Goldsmith rarely had the opportunity to score films that good but that's a whole other discussion.

[DrTenma 116]

9 hours ago, Arpy said:

The new arrangement of Han Solo and the Princess is one of my favourite pieces Williams has written in the last decade.

 

I'm not sure if that's unpopular, but I'll go as far as saying that is my favourite piece in the whole Star Wars.

[bigjimwilson 248]

15 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I find the ending to the Jaws concert arrangement but muscially and dramatically unsatisfying, if not downright cheesy. I don't know what compelled him to finish it a melodramatic chord... I appreciate that it's a more definitive ending, but the whole idea (as far as I can tell) is that it somewhat mirrors a shark attack. The approach at the beginning, the attack in the middle (albeit the Out to Sea melody appearing means it's too adventuruous for this concept to work fully) then the shark swimming away as the two note theme fades out. A bit dramatic duh-duh-duuuuuh at the end is awful. I almost always skip it.

 

 

I went to a concert here in Manchester a few years back, where they just dropped the final chord from the piece. I was so happy. It must have been the conductor's choice, as he seemed to be happily nodding his head once the audience realised they were finished and started clapping. That last chord is just too cheesy. 

[Arpy 4,145]

46 minutes ago, DrTenma said:

 

I'm not sure if that's unpopular, but I'll go as far as saying that is my favourite piece in the whole Star Wars.

I was just responding to the conversation concerning the piece!

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Each of Empire and Jedi featured almost as many new themes as the original Star Wars, but the new material from episodes 2 & 3 and 8 & 9 isn't (for me, at least) as strong as that from 1 and 7. The Rebellion is Reborn has some nice moments and is a great theme, but the arrangement feels quite unfocussed.

 

I don't consider new themes a per se blessing (i hardly need the ewok theme, and others in that vein). And why should RiR be unfocussed? It's a perfect wedding of two disparate elements unfolding over the course of 4 minutes, it's the kind of thing only an experienced old hand can deliver. 

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

1 hour ago, bigjimwilson said:

 

I went to a concert here in Manchester a few years back, where they just dropped the final chord from the piece. I was so happy. It must have been the conductor's choice, as he seemed to be happily nodding his head once the audience realised they were finished and started clapping. That last chord is just too cheesy. 

 

Sounds like a pretty good artistic choice. An alternative ending would be to use the ending from the film version of the main titles, in a frenzy where it suddenly just cuts off dramatically. Feels more appropriate and dramatically satisfying than a melodramatic rallentando. I like that the audience was taken by surprise by the ending. The opposite to Superman where the build to the final chord is sometimes drowned by applause where the audience don't realise it hasn't finished. Not a big fan of the similar style ending for Battle of the Heroes where it stops to build up to a final chord, but I'm just being picky now ;-)

58 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

I don't consider new themes a per se blessing (i hardly need the ewok theme, and others in that vein). And why should RiR be unfocussed? It's a perfect wedding of two disparate elements unfolding over the course of 4 minutes, it's the kind of thing only an experienced old hand can deliver. 

 

Have to admit that I think the Ewok theme is great, but then I love Prokofiev ;-) It just feels unfocussd to me, not horrendously so, just not as rigorously structured as some of his classic concert arrangements, but appreciate everyone hears things differently. Again, probably being picky.

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

19 hours ago, moi said:

Long post, too much BS to even argue to

it's no "BS", it's called personal opinion and question of taste. 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Unlike Goldsmith, who wrote terrific scores for lousy films (LEGEND ...) , Williams needs to be ' inspired' by a good film.

 

Consider, the dull score for the dreadful BFG. THE TERMINAL.

His uninspired score for ROTJ coming after two classic SW films.

Talk amongst yourselves

😉

[Falstaft 2,132]

I don't know how anyone could hear passages like this, among the most exquisitely orchestrated in all of JW's canon, as dull!

 

 

(Also, some impressive thematic work here, in the way the delicate To Kill A Mockingbird-esque melody from 6:38 blossoms at 7:30.

 

Unpopular opinion: Images is overrated from nearly all quarters -- JW aficionados, casual film types, and even apparently Williams himself. Not bad, mind you. Maybe it's even a great score. It's just not as interesting or sui generis as we make it out to be.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

THE TERMINAL

 

That's a very good score.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Only a JW Fanatic could like BFG!😝

JNH 's DEFIANCE is better than SCHINDLERS*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*JUST KIDDING!😆

[bruce marshall 1,314]

3 hours ago, lemoncurd said:

it's no "BS", it's called personal opinion and question of taste. 

I don't read long posts.

It's a MESSAGE board, not a THESIS board!😗

2 hours ago, Falstaft said:

I don't know how anyone could hear passages like this, among the most exquisitely orchestrated in all of JW's canon, as dull....

 

 

 

Well it's not as dull as the film.....😉

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

The reworking of Han Solo and the Princess is one of the most delightfully thoughtful and meta pieces JW has ever written. I see the whole work as a resolution to the deeply passionate, intense and tragic longing of the original. It’s literally the story of Han and Leia as they are pushed apart by a personal tragedy and reunited again in their later years. The instrumentation itself implies maturity and a more muted emotional expression, deep cellos and and woodwinds taking more of a role than the brilliant high strings and shiny brass of the original.

 

Then there’s the melody itself, with the second phrase no longer oozing with impending tragedy but resolving in a more conventional matter, still bittersweet and tinged with sadness but leaving us with a full stop instead of a question mark. The fates of these characters is now known, the story complete.

 

I recommend listening to the Art of the Score podcast on ESB, they touch on this arrangement when they explore this theme and come to a similar conclusion.

[Arpy 4,145]

11 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Only a JW Fanatic could like BFG!😝

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

That says JW Fan NOT FANATIC!

[Arpy 4,145]

Fan is an abbreviation of Fanatic. @bruce marshall Look it up!

[crumbs 14,287]

9 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Then there’s the melody itself, with the second phrase no longer oozing with impending tragedy but resolving in a more conventional matter, still bittersweet and tinged with sadness but leaving us with a full stop instead of a question mark. The fates of these characters is now known, the story complete.

 

And just like Williams couldn't have written Rey's Theme without the two trilogies before it, the revised Han Solo and the Princess couldn't exist without Across the Stars. The two pieces inform one another, and only through the happy circumstance that the overarching story was made so wildly out of order.

[Fabulin 3,506]

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

Fan is an abbreviation of Fanatic. @bruce marshall Look it up!

I don't find such etymology convincing. I think it is more likely that i comes from famous people (for example famous composers-performers) autographing ladies' paper folding fans in the 19th century. A woman who was desperately trying to get an autograph could have been refered to pars pro toto as a "fan".

 

 

Fan and fanatic might be an unfortunate pair of "false friends".

[Yannick 40]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

And just like Williams couldn't have written Rey's Theme without the two trilogies before it, the revised Han Solo and the Princess couldn't exist without Across the Stars. The two pieces inform one another, and only through the happy circumstance that the overarching story was made so wildly out of order.

 

I just found out the new Han Solo and the Princess arrangement. How do you think it is influenced by Across the Stars?

[Arpy 4,145]

13 hours ago, Fabulin said:

I don't find such etymology convincing. I think it is more likely that i comes from famous people (for example famous composers-performers) autographing ladies' paper folding fans in the 19th century. A woman who was desperately trying to get an autograph could have been refered to pars pro toto as a "fan".

Fan and fanatic might be an unfortunate pair of "false friends".

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

There is a big diff between a fan and a fanatic.

I'm not going to even try to explain it to you😒

[Arpy 4,145]

Don't worry, I wouldn't have listened, read or cared about whatever you had to say. In fact, with that attitude, I think you've made me break my 'No Ignoring' rule.

 

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The Reunion is an underrated track

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:49 AM, Docteur Qui said:

The reworking of Han Solo and the Princess is one of the most delightfully thoughtful and meta pieces JW has ever written. I see the whole work as a resolution to the deeply passionate, intense and tragic longing of the original. It’s literally the story of Han and Leia as they are pushed apart by a personal tragedy and reunited again in their later years. The instrumentation itself implies maturity and a more muted emotional expression, deep cellos and and woodwinds taking more of a role than the brilliant high strings and shiny brass of the original.

 

Then there’s the melody itself, with the second phrase no longer oozing with impending tragedy but resolving in a more conventional matter, still bittersweet and tinged with sadness but leaving us with a full stop instead of a question mark. The fates of these characters is now known, the story complete.

 

I recommend listening to the Art of the Score podcast on ESB, they touch on this arrangement when they explore this theme and come to a similar conclusion.

 

I will give it another listen (again, the lack of an official recording is frustrasting but I'm sure one will appear soon enough). I can kinda understand that train of thought for how Han and Leia ended up in the recent trilogy, although I guess the more "pure" sweeping romance of the original trilogy sets the first arrangement more appropriately in the context of those first three movies more convincingly for me. 

On 8/2/2020 at 7:38 PM, lemoncurd said:

it's no "BS", it's called personal opinion and question of taste. 

 

...and thank you. You may disagree, indeed isn't that kinda the point of this thread, but articulated reasons make it far more interesting for everyone. I've explained my reasoning (rather than just "such and such is crap") and appreciate those who have provided eloquent responses. I'm happy to be convinced of something's merits so those people who basically reply as though I've stated my opinion as fact and therefore am "wrong" aren't making any kind of useful contribution. Worth pointing out that I have an inordinate number of JW soundtracks and he remains my favourite composer, but nobody's perfect and some things just don't gel for me but fun to discuss why it doesn't for me but does for other people.

[Bellosh 3,369]

'A Legend is Born' - The Terminal is a top 5 cue from the past 20 years.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:28 PM, Albus Percival Wulfric said:

 

 

I've always been a fan of Chinese technology.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Every editorial decision Williams made on the Prisoner of Azkaban OST was for the better

[Arpy 4,145]

If he'd added a few of the gems he cut out it would've been great. The Complete score is a bit paradoxical to me - I love it but goddamn is it a spotty listening experience. Stop, go, stop, go...

 

 

Sometimes that's the nature of scores, though, they're going to have stronger individual moments as opposed to a singular flowing whole.

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

So many disparate short underscore stingers that come together to form full cohesive tracks.  It's almost like he wrote the track first and then deconstructed it to put into the film.

[Arpy 4,145]

Half of the problem for me is having listened to the OST for so many years that it felt unnatural to hear things separated and one point I'll concede to Thor is that Williams knows how to craft a good album.

[Holko 9,491]

I was mostly just listening to a chrono edit of the OST, I really dislike most of the choices. At first Knight Bus was a tad strange to get used to on the LLL, but I've heard the OST edit recently and damn is it weird as hell now.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I think the OST underrepresents the qualities of the score - the emotionally differentiated and subtle core is a bit lacking on the more streamlined album. To recreate the end credits suite from the movie was just a stupid idea.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

Why do you think that was a stupid idea?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Because it is a haphazard and jittery compilation of cues we've already heard.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

I don't see the problem with that as long as the musical structure and transitions are good.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Neither is.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

(stands up)

My name is Naïve Old Fart, and I don't like FAR AND AWAY.

There, I said it. Damn, if that doesn't feel good!

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

Ban him!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

(stands up)

My name is Naïve Old Fart, and I don't like FAR AND AWAY.

There, I said it. Damn, if that doesn't feel good!

You're not alone.

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

My name is Naïve Old Fart, and I don't like HOME AND AWAY.

 

Fixed.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

(stands up)

My name is Naïve Old Fart, and I don't like FAR AND AWAY.

There, I said it. Damn, if that doesn't feel good!

Wow! That took alot of 'guts'.

Try saying you don't like CE 3K, like I did,  and see what happens!