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John Williams: Unpopular Opinions


Bilbo

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  • 4 weeks later...

Not sure if this is really an unpopular opinion. But usually in Williams' soundtracks I like the secondary theme better than the main theme, e.g. Force theme over SW main theme, Over the Moon over Flying, Remembrances over theme from Schindler's List, Star of Betlehem over In your Memory, Cinque's theme over Dry your Tears Africa etc.

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4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Not sure if this is really an unpopular opinion. But usually in Williams' soundtracks I like the secondary theme better than the main theme, e.g. Force theme over SW main theme, Over the Moon over Flying, Remembrances over theme from Schindler's List, Star of Betlehem over In your Memory, Cinque's theme over Dry your Tears Africa etc.

I agree, the secondary theme is my favourite in 80% of all cases.

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2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

By the way. What is the secondary theme in Raiders of the Lost Ark? The Map Room or Marion's Theme? Anyway, both I like better than the March.

 

Definitely the Ark theme, without a doubt.

 

Indiana Jones does have that secondary motif that only shows up in Raiders though.  It's sort of his "in a temple motif" heard in "The Idol Temple" and "Indy Rides the Statue."

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I don't think the Ark theme being secondary is arbitrary at all.  I think it's the definitive secondary theme of Raiders.

 

Unless you're talking about the motifs I mentioned (which I in no way was assuming were themes or secondary themes)

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Here is maybe another unpopular/unusual oppinion (maybe not). Recently I heard in a video, that the Star Wars main theme might be one of the most recogizable themes in movie history.

I don't think so. If I hadn't heard it a zillion times and would hear it out of context, I think, I wouldn't find it very recogizable. Themes like the Raider's March, Hedwig's Theme, Doctor Schiwago or Pink Panther are mich much more recogizable. 

I even think, it is a strength of the Star Wars main theme that it is not so super recognizable. You don't get that quickly annoyed by it.

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56 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Personally, I wouldn't care if I never heard another note of STAR WARS ever again...but to be without THE ACCIDENTAL TOURIST...now that's a different matter, entirely.

Interesting. I feel the exact opposite. 

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On 12/27/2020 at 9:20 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Huh?! :o  How dare you! :lol:

 

I've now't against STAR WARS, but, over the years, it's the "quiter", more contemplative scores that have come to mean more to me, than the "sturm und drang" of the more "popular" works.

 

tenor.gif

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10 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

I'm not a fan of how JW approached the lightsaber battles in the sequel trilogy. I don't mind the mickey-mousing approach, but it's too much. I would have loved if he did something more based on the emotion of the scene with mickey-mousing on top of it.

 

As is, it feels like JW was too concerned with hitting every single hitpoint, which works both in detriment of the music and the film.

I agree for TLJ and TROS. In TLJ both Rey's fight with Luke and Luke vs Kylo are scored like action scenes instead of scoring the emotion or subtext. In TFA, I thought JW did a good job grounding Rey vs Kylo in their respective themes. TROS is all mickey-mouse lightsaber action music, much to the detriment of the film and score, as you say.

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On 12/31/2020 at 5:02 AM, Not Mr. Big said:

TROS is better treated in-film than TFA (the weakest mixed in-film JW score ever)

At most times, it rivals TLJ's high score mix


Somehow the music in TROS sounds a lot more clear when I’m just watching it on TV or listening with headphones... much better than in cinema where the sound effects were just overbearing.

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 weeks later...

The score does nothing new whatsoever, but what it does do - painting a picture of rural England - it does it well.

 

That said, I think the more sugary or tragic bits are Williams going OTT - I could never stand Death of Topthorn.

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4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

... what it does do - painting a picture of rural England

Forget it. Listen to the last part of "Carrie's Bedroom". That's rural England, and it's written by an Englishman.

JANE EYRE does rural England so much better. WAR HORSE is simply ingratiating.

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8 hours ago, Tom said:

Tintin is Wiliams's best score of the last 19 years (or since POA).  A compete score release would win converts to my cause.  

I feel the exact same way about B.F.G. I like TinTin too, for what it's worth

17 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

WAR HORSE: boring film, and boring score.

I only saw it once when it came out, and I don't really remember how I felt about it. I think I liked it well enough. I'm singling out the concert arrangement, which I think is very strong , and musically interesting, not the full score, which I haven't heard enough to have an opinion about.

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2 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

Here's one:

Rose's Theme from Last Jedi is not only the most irrelevant main theme John Williams has written for Star Wars, it's probably the most irrelevant main theme Williams has written for any of his movies.

 

One of the few times he wasn't able to capture the heart of the movie

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3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

That's part of the issue. The movie has no heart.

I agree and I actually like TLJ. But it has no singular narrative thrust that JW could write a theme for or an important new relationship to write a theme for. I love the score for TLJ, but its highlights are all set pieces, not new themes.

 

In a way, I feel the same about TPM, but in that case the originality and energy of the music was so much greater.

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8 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

That's part of the issue. The movie has no heart.

I feel like the script's theme of overcoming failure or whatever counts as good heart but the execution doesn't lend itself to a cohesive musical identity (since it's more subtextual than a concrete conflict and also because it doesn't really inform the tone of the film itself, which is largely comedic)

 

Like if the film had maintained a consistent downtrodden yet hopeful tone maybe JW could have written some kind of unifying theme that fits with that idea

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21 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

It's just not on the level of SW or Indiana Jones

You're absolutely right. SUPERMAN shits all over STAR WARS and INDIANA JONES from a very great height.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

The movie has no heart.

Yet it still manages to be the best film of the ST, by a country mile.

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  • 3 months later...
On 31/03/2023 at 7:20 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

It's just not on the level of SW or Indiana Jones

 

i like close encounters better than sw and superman

 

On 30/03/2023 at 4:37 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

JANE EYRE does rural England so much better. WAR HORSE is simply ingratiating.

 

i don't want rural england, i want whatever WAR HORSE is doing

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On 30/12/2020 at 10:02 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

TROS is better treated in-film than TFA (the weakest mixed in-film JW score ever)

At most times, it rivals TLJ's high score mix

What the fuck was I thinking??

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