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JW's Worst OST Decisions


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14 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I think the biggest mistake, not just from Williams, but all film companies, is the fact that they only release single disc albums. I mean, can't they afford just one more disc? Two discs could include just about every cue from a film. I hate the people (some of them are here) that say "oh well then it's not as good of a listening experience". That's a stupid excuse. There's no significance of leaving out music other than for a greedy corporation to save a few bucks on an extra CD. That would be a far better listening experience in my opinion.

 

And when they decide to release 2 CDs they put the songs played in the movie instead of actual unreleased cues from the composed score (e.g. Valerian..)

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Release the album C&C. 

 

Composer gives an alternate tracklist in the booklet for people who think less music is better. 

 

Everybody's happy! 

 

Don't give me crap about wanting to listen to less music on CD either, nobody actually plays CDs anymore.

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14 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

 

Sure, but I prefer the whole album from start to finish. I'm talking musical narrative here, not the film's.

I disagree with your opinion that an OST must be listened to like some sort of tradition, but I respect your opinion. I think all of us have different ways of enjoying the music we love. Some of us just like to have as much of the material as possible, as opposed to a select amount that's been edited together.

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I just don't get the pairing of totally different tracks like the national anthem with a score piece on The Terminal's soundtrack and the solo guitar piece and an orchestral piece on Schindler's List. I can't even comprehend where the idea came from let alone it going forward.

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6 hours ago, Sally Spectra said:

 

I do.

 

The needs of the many outway the needs of the few. 

 

You can burn a cd of the PST program. 

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1 minute ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 

The needs of the many outway the needs of the few. 

 

You can burn a cd of the PST program. 

 

Do you have any empirical evidence that supports the claim that no-one listens to CDs anymore?

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A more recent problem with one of JW's CDs I've been stung by is Revenge of the Sith's omission of several key cues which expand on Battle of the Heroes and other thematic identities. Instead we have the concert version and maybe one other track with the theme present. I am the Senate was another cue which I thought ought to be on the OST as it presents an important turning point in the film, Palpatine's unmasking and Anakin's downfall. 

 

Granted, ROTS isn't the most thematically driven scores of the prequels, but why take more out of one of the most important themes of the film's narrative?

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TLW in complete form is an absolute revelation; like a journey into hell and back again.

 

I'm sure TOD would be similar in complete form, but sadly most of the darker temple/voodoo cues are omitted from the expansion in favour of action music (fair enough, I guess).

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

TLW in complete form is an absolute revelation; like a journey into hell and back again.

 

I'm sure TOD would be similar in complete form, but sadly most of the darker temple/voodoo cues are omitted from the expansion in favour of action music (fair enough, I guess).

Absolutely, now that we have the complete Rescuing Sarah, the unreleased music which I want the most is the bunch of cues that accompany the scene when Indy is forced to drink the blood and his following transformation. And of course all the village cues. The expanded Concord album is indeed not very balanced, since one action track follows after another, which becomes a bit dull.

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The jump from Children in Chains to Short Round Escapes is very jarring, not least because it skips ahead about fifteen minutes of the film in one track. The score really needs to catch its breath here before it heads back into all the action cues, which are non-stop until the finale!

 

Even one of Moloram's Speech, The Evil Potion or Willy in the Fryer would've helped a lot here.

 

The Rope Bridge is important for the same reason; its build up is essential for Broken Bridge to be as effective as it is. Sadly they omitted that too.

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On Saturday, August 05, 2017 at 4:54 AM, Manakin Skywalker said:

If I were a composer and had the option, I'd release everything I wrote on release. If some fans (a very microscopic amount I would imagine) want less music, then they have the option to edit their own version of the score. We shouldn't have to miss out on a ton of music just because some ADHD patients with a tiny attention span want less music for some bizarre reason.

 

On Saturday, August 05, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Sally Spectra said:

 

It's not really about wanting less music, it's about the composer's desire to artistically create a musical journey that's timed and paced to his own specifications, without the film dictating his decisions. Sometimes that means axing music that he feels doesn't contribute to that particular musical experience he's going for. It's usually the last opportunity for the composer to repurpose his score for another medium.

 

Often some of these newer scores where every cue is released leads to some tedious experiences, rather like some Brian Tyler scores that could have been significantly edited down to make for a more musically satisfying experience. And his scores aren't special enough to warrant such lengthy releases anyway!

 

I think meanwhile there are two groups of people: Occasional listeners that want a nice 40-70 minute to let the film rehappen, to admire the music and to have a nice time. And very passionate listeners who care about every second of a score, want to study the score, listen to it very carefully.

Why not releasing an OST program for the normal fans and then releasing an archival collector's version. Every format adopted to its buyer. I am used to complete scores and don't like the stockiness of the highlights on an OST sometimes. What I do like are minimal atmopheric cues that some people call "filler material". Even they can be very elaborated and entertaining due to the subtle ty and the effect which they achieve.

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The thing is though, there's never a guarantee of an archival edition. People are then forced to wait decades hoping for a complete release, by which time enthusiasm and demand have dropped. Only blockbusters and cult classics stand a chance!

 

I'd rather have the chance to have it all to work out what I don't want than to face years waiting for something that might never come.

 

 

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

I've been an avid filmscore fan since the early 90's. And i DON'T need every second of every single score out there.

 

What a dumb fucking post!

Sometimes it's not about having every second, but one cue that was omitted for a better listening experience.

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41 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I've been an avid filmscore fan since the early 90's. And i DON'T need every second of every single score out there.

 

What a dumb fucking post!

There is always one dump idiot who takes everything literally and who is bothered by every trifle that is not entirely true. When I say there are two groups of people with tendentially coherent preferences and traits, then there mustn't be any people that are different! When you're enthusiastic, you must automatically want to have every second of music! When you're not, there is an OST for you, nothing more!

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11 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

When you're enthusiastic, you must automatically want to have every second of music! When you're not, there is an OST for you, nothing more!

 

This is what you stated and it's what I disagreed with.

 

If you don't believe it yourself, why did you write it?

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I'm not all that upset with some of Johnny's microedits, such as Monster Books in Azkaban. Eliminating prolonged silence makes perfect sense for a listening experience.

 

It's just when he starts hacking away at entire bars of music mid-cue that I get frustrated. I Can Fly Anything is a great example; a wonderful cue that builds very nicely in complete form, but was microedited by about a minute on the OST. It starts sounding like a terrible film edit after a while (ie. the film version Quidditich, Third Year).

 

I wish he'd just let his action cues breathe as they're written to.

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I prefer the ending of I Can Fly Anything on the OST versus the FYC cue, but everything before it is better in complete form.

30 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

It's just when he starts hacking away at entire bars of music mid-cue that I get frustrated. I Can Fly Anything is a great example; a wonderful cue that builds very nicely in complete form, but was microedited by about a minute on the OST.

 

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5 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Of course you never got frustrated. You always stick to your principles. Honestly, you cannot deny that there are complete scores that are much better than the OST. 

 

They do exist, but they are very rare. ROCKY IV works well in its -- presumably -- C&C format (then again, there is no OST with which to compare). I think in many ways the Arista STAR WARSes are superior to the OSTs, but the subsequent RCAs too much. But then, the OSTs are very good for what they are too.

 

So it does happen. But only once in a blue moon.

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I prefer Star Wars and Empire in their complete forms, but I'm with you Thor on ROTJ -- my favorite presentation is definitely disc 3 of the anthology.

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1 hour ago, Muldoon said:

I prefer Star Wars and Empire in their complete forms, but I'm with you Thor on ROTJ -- my favorite presentation is definitely disc 3 of the anthology.

I think the anthology boxes are great compromises. I bought them to be introduced into the music of Star Wars. One years later I upgraded* to the 1997 Expansions.

 

*This is not really an upgrade. Well, it contains more music, but that's the only advantage.

5 hours ago, Thor said:

They do exist, but they are very rare. ROCKY IV works well in its -- presumably -- C&C format (then again, there is no OST with which to compare). I think in many ways the Arista STAR WARSes are superior to the OSTs, but the subsequent RCAs too much. But then, the OSTs are very good for what they are too.

 

So it does happen. But only once in a blue moon.

What do you think of premiere releases that are directly complete, like Family Plot and Midway (or Magic and The Challenge or something like that). Do you buy them? Do you enjoy them?

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I bought FAMILY PLOT. I didn't buy MIDWAY (as I was content with the 90s rerecording -- not a big fan of the score anyway). Getting them released in the first place is always more important than how they're structured/presented, although ideally I would of course wish they had been properly assembled.

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44 minutes ago, Thor said:

I bought FAMILY PLOT. I didn't buy MIDWAY (as I was content with the 90s rerecording -- not a big fan of the score anyway). Getting them released in the first place is always more important than how they're structured/presented, although ideally I would of course wish they had been properly assembled.

That's the problem with scores that got no release at the time of the film's release. They're mostly no highlight and are the first candidates to get a redundant complete score - just a complete score.

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13 hours ago, Arpy said:

A more recent problem with one of JW's CDs I've been stung by is Revenge of the Sith's omission of several key cues which expand on Battle of the Heroes and other thematic identities. Instead we have the concert version and maybe one other track with the theme present. I am the Senate was another cue which I thought ought to be on the OST as it presents an important turning point in the film, Palpatine's unmasking and Anakin's downfall. 

 

Granted, ROTS isn't the most thematically driven scores of the prequels, but why take more out of one of the most important themes of the film's narrative?

Back in 2005 when the tracklist for ROTS was first released (I think on Amazon), both "I Am the Senate" and "Revisiting Padme" were on the tracklist, and "Grievous and the Droids" was not.

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I didn't know that! Those hacks!

 

Although, I'm happy Grievous and the Droids was released too.

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Back in 2005 when the tracklist for ROTS was first released (I think on Amazon), both "I Am the Senate" and "Revisiting Padme" were on the tracklist, and "Grievous and the Droids" was not.

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- War of the Worlds: to include Morgan Freeman's narration

- The Terminal: to exclude the first and most differing cue, several repetitions

- A.I.: to include a song that doesn't even appear in the movie instead of more score

- The Philosopher's Stone: to make a weird mixture of the film score and the children's suite instead of placing the latter at the end or at the beginning of the album

- Angela's Ashes: to include the narration

- The Lost World: the prominent Rescuing Sarah edit

- Jurassic Park: to put the end credits cue in the middle of the album and repeating parts of it at the end instead of more music

- JFK: to put The Motorcade at the beginning of the album, too much source music instead of more score

- Return of the Jedi: although it's enjoyable, not representing the film score at all

 

I have just realized I haven't yet answered the thread's question.

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On 08/05/2017 at 4:42 AM, Sally Spectra said:

That would have made for some thick and expensive multi-disc vinyl record sets back in the day. Would have have been economical?

 

That mind-set is similar to the one that prevented many great scores from the '80s to have any kind of release, in favor of fairly inconsequential song-albums (The Goonies, BTTF among those), not to mention the single-disc ROTJ album (George Lucas' decision, entirely based on profitability). Profitable or not, we have no idea, and personally I don't care.

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1 hour ago, Ricard said:

 

That mind-set is similar to the one that prevented many great scores from the '80s to have any kind of release, in favor of fairly inconsequential song-albums (The Goonies, BTTF among those), not to mention the single-disc ROTJ album (George Lucas' decision, entirely based on profitability). Profitable or not, we have no idea, and personally I don't care.

 

Frankly, I think that's a bum rap. I'm a businessman. Tough, yes. Shrewd, okay. But that does not make me a monster.

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18 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

 

Frankly, I think that's a bum rap. I'm a businessman. Tough, yes. Shrewd, okay. But that does not make me a monster.

I think the issue in this context is that the logic of business should not have been primary.  The franchise was profitable, but one would think Lucas, who claimed (at least at the time) to be an artist over businessman, would be okay with less profit (yet still profitable) if it served art. 

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Luckily, nowadays we do not have honorable artists, but enthusiastic fanboys like Douglas Fake who spare no expenses to give a score the deserved release.

 

4 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

- War of the Worlds: to include Morgan Freeman's narration

- The Terminal: to exclude the first and most differing cue, several repetitions

- A.I.: to include a song that doesn't even appear in the movie instead of more score

- The Philosopher's Stone: to make a weird mixture of the film score and the children's suite instead of placing the latter at the end or at the beginning of the album

- Angela's Ashes: to include the narration

- The Lost World: the prominent Rescuing Sarah edit

- Jurassic Park: to put the end credits cue in the middle of the album and repeating parts of it at the end instead of more music

- JFK: to put The Motorcade at the beginning of the album, too much source music instead of more score

- Return of the Jedi: although it's enjoyable, not representing the film score at all

 

I have just realized I haven't yet answered the thread's question.

Oh well..I hate that edit so much.:blush2:

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7 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

- War of the Worlds: to include Morgan Freeman's narration

I disagree.  The narration and the music go so hand and hand that the decision to include it seems natural.

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7 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I disagree.  The narration and the music go so hand and hand that the decision to include it seems natural.

 

The music wasn't strong enough to stand on it's own. It needed talking over it.

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3 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I disagree.  The narration and the music go so hand and hand that the decision to include it seems natural.

I want to listen to the music. When I want to hear the narration I watch the movie. I don't want the music to be forcedly connected to the text even on album.

 

Luckily many of those decisions are no problem any more, because of expansions.

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4 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

 

The music wasn't strong enough to stand on it's own. It needed talking over it.

 

The Main Title form WOTW has some wonderful "odd" chords, and some lovely, spacey synths.

When I want to hear a clean version, I just stick in the Blu, and disconnect the center speaker. Sorted :)

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2 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I want to listen to the music. When I want to hear the narration I watch the movie. I don't want the music to be forcedly connected to the text even on album.

 

Luckily many of those decisions are no problem any more, because of expansions.

 

If you hoped Spock's narration in the finale to TWOK would vanish in an expansion, think again. If you thought Scatman Crothers' song from Twilight Zone: The Movie would finally be gone from expansion, you were mistaken.

 

Why are people so wedded to this idea that dialogue has a place to be dubbed over scores on album that you can't even get rid of it in expansions? At least the Rhino Superman gave you two versions of The Flying Sequence!

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