If Star Wars were to get an expansion, how would you want them edited?

[Incanus 5,713]

22 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I personally would prefer straight sessions style, leaving me to edit the tracks together as I please. What I actually expect to get is a version with certain cues combined and others not, which isn't the end of the world. The main thing for me is that all the music is present, chronological, and well-edited (or not at all). And I'm pretty sure that's what we'll get.

I feel that a commercial release of a complete score should not just be a dump of raw materials in one place from which everyone should/can cobble up their own preferred version but a finished and well thought out and rounded experience of its own be the tracks separated or combined. It can be comprehensive but not detrimental to the flow and intentions of the music and the composer. What I am getting at is that you shouldn't have to tinker with it.

 

Like the JP Collection for example. Bless you Mike Matessino!  

[Jay 37,289]

1 minute ago, Incanus said:

I feel that a commercial release of a complete score should not just be a dump of raw materials in one place from which everyone should/can cobble up their own preferred version but a finished and well thought out and rounded experience of its own be the tracks separated or combined. It can be comprehensive but not detrimental to the flow and intentions of the music and the composer.

 

 

Yes!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

6 hours ago, Incanus said:

I feel that a commercial release of a complete score should not just be a dump of raw materials in one place from which everyone should/can cobble up their own preferred version but a finished and well thought out and rounded experience of its own be the tracks separated or combined. It can be comprehensive but not detrimental to the flow and intentions of the music and the composer. What I am getting at is that you shouldn't have to tinker with it.

But then we won't be able to have thousands of crappy fan edits from the forum that must not be named!

11 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Its just the concert version tracked in.

He's obviously referring to the film take. It is the concert arrangement, but the film take has never been released.

[Jay 37,289]

That is true! 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

It should be individual cues, but some of them can be connected. Not as much connections like on the SE and not as many cues as on the Ultimate Edition. 30-40 Tracks would be fine.

[CGCJ 394]

Sessions style. Can't stand when cues are needlessly combined when they were clearly recorded separately. (I don't care how short they are or if they're combined in the film) I can also do without the Fox Fanfare being included as I've never counted it as part of the scores anyway. Would also have to be presented in chronological order, with John Williams' original cue titles, e.g "Lost R2" for "Binary Sunset" or at-least have them noted in the accompanying booklet. All original source music would have to be included also, so the film version Lapti Nek and not Jedi Rocks.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Extremists!  This product is going to have please both the mass market of Star Wars fans and you guys!  But more the former.

[Bespin 8,480]

I'm agree, ok it's clear that the Star Wars Main Theme was meant to fit with the 20th Century Fox Fanfare... but It's for the movie experience, we don't need it on the CDs.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 09/08/2017 at 10:51 AM, Incanus said:

In some cases he even creates a little gap between consecutive cues meant to go together like The Stegosaurus and the Visitor in San Diego on the new TLW release where both are labeled "Extended" when in truth there is no new music, just two cues separated by a sliver of silence when they were more tightly edited on the OST.

That explains a lot! I did wonder what it was about those tracks that was different from before.

Now I wonder if I should change it back. I'm not a big fan of needless silence when I could be hearing music instead.

Oh well, just barely a second, right?

 

On 09/08/2017 at 5:03 PM, filmmusic said:

By the way, studying now the star wars special editions soundtracks, i saw that they had placed the inserts as they pleased in the cd!

In Empire Strikes back, the insert in 2 instances I think, was placed right after the passage it was meant to replace. (i think such was an instance with an insert in A.I. too)

In Return of the Jedi (i'm on track 2 right now) the insert (which replaces a portion of a cue) is placed after the whole cue is ended, right before the next cue starts.

I reckon that's pretty clever! What's the point in having alternate tracks if they're 99% identical to the normal ones.

Or to have really short inserts completely separate. If those inserts are inserted somewhere, at least you get to hear them as part of some sort of listening experience.

I did the same on my own TPM edit and I like it that way.

 

On 09/08/2017 at 9:54 PM, BloodBoal said:

 

So, let's say for a complete Potter release, you'd like to have each cue for the Quidditch Match sequence to be presented separately?

Please no.

I don't mind super long tracks, as long as the music fits together. A good example is The Battle of Both.

A bad example are the Battle of Endor tracks because those completely shift style every few minutes.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,500]

CD Discs 1+2

The compete scores, including all extensions, source, and unreleased music.

 

CD Discs 3+4

The 1997 presentations, remastered.

 

CD Discs 5+6

The complete scores, as heard in the film.

 

CD Discs 7+8

The OSTs.

 

CD Discs 9-19

The complete sessions, presented in chronological order, cross-referenced in the accompanying 250-page "coffee table"- style book, to allow your CD player to be programmed to play them in recording order.

 

Disc 20

Bonus Blu Ray disc, of CD discs 1+2, remixed in DTS Master Audio 5.1, by Steven Wilson.

 

 

 

 

[Jay 37,289]

3 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

That explains a lot! I did wonder what it was about those tracks that was different from before.

Now I wonder if I should change it back. I'm not a big fan of needless silence when I could be hearing music instead.

Oh well, just barely a second, right?

 

 

Oh god no, definitely don't change them back!  The edits within those two tracks on the 1997 OST are very clunky!  The new versions sound significantly better; The listening experience has been improved!  

Also, these aren't cues that were ever meant to be connected!  The two cues inside The Stegosauraus track are actually separated by a bunch of scenes that aren't scored at all.  If MM was starting from scratch, they certainly would have each been in their own track!   He only had to keep them in the same track here, because the 1997 OST put them in the same track.

[Incanus 5,713]

41 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

Oh god no, definitely don't change them back!  The edits within those two tracks on the 1997 OST are very clunky!  The new versions sound significantly better; The listening experience has been improved!  

Also, these aren't cues that were ever meant to be connected!  The two cues inside The Stegosauraus track are actually separated by a bunch of scenes that aren't score at all.  If MM was starting from scratch, they certainly would have each been in their own track!   He only had to keep them in the same track here, because the 1997 OST put them in the same track.

Do you know was keeping those tracks together a JW request or something mandated by contractual reasons?

[crumbs 14,301]

29 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Do you know was keeping those tracks together a JW request or something mandated by contractual reasons?

 

This is only my vague recollection so I could be wrong, but MM mentioned something about signing over the rights from UMG to a different subsidiary of Universal if he made any editorial changes to existing OST tracks, such as restoring microedits (a key example being Rescuing Sarah).

 

He was encouraged by JW's camp to avoid doing this where possible, to help UMG retain ownership over the music from as many OST tracks as possible.

 

Perhaps separating two cues (previously connected in the equivalent OST track) with silence isn't considered a drastic enough change to require transferring the ownership rights? Only when substantial changes are made, like restoring microedits or adding inserts?

 

Thus he was required to keep the track assembly as is, but allowed to separate the cues with silence.

[Jay 37,289]

I think whenever possible they have to keep album tracks, so if an album track contains two cues that are chronologically consecutive anyway, with no unreleased cues that go in between them, they just stay together.  It's easy enough to separate those two cues into their own tracks, same as Fire At Camp / Corporate Choppers, and The Compys / The Compys Dine.  I love that about MM releases, that if he puts 2 cues in the same track that aren't intended by the composer to be combined, he grants enough space that we can separate them.  In all cases I've found, the listening experience of just leaving them the way he did it is perfectly fine, though (like some early tracks on his ID4 release).

[crumbs 14,301]

It makes perfect sense for very short cues, too. 

 

For scores with lots of very short unreleased cues (I believe Munich and Azkaban may be offenders here), combined tracks make perfect sense if they are musically compatible.

[Jay 37,289]

Right.

[Incanus 5,713]

Also there is the whole curious hurdle of renaming the cues/tracks for new releases when they can't use the exact same names if the content is changed even a little. Hence all these "extended versions" and "film versions" they have to put at the end of the track when they are licenced again. Or so I have understood from those Matessino interviews when he was talking about e.g. renaming some of the tracks on the Intrada Jaws release.

[Jay 37,289]

Yea, I dislike that practice, but what can you do

[aj_vader 533]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:30 AM, Stefancos said:

Its just the concert version tracked in.

It's a different recording, different tempo, different mix. 

[MrScratch 294]

22 hours ago, Jay said:

Yea, I dislike that practice, but what can you do

 

Rename them yourself in iTunes or whatever device you use.

[Jay 37,289]

Right, exactly

[CuriousMan 16]

On 8/9/2017 at 7:19 AM, Manakin Skywalker said:

How would you want a Star Wars complete score edited?

Suite tracks, tracks with bracketed notes "alternate"/"film version" etc. and source tracks as bonuses.

Sessions style, manuscript/OST titles.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Other: sessions style, but everything crossfaded that was crossfaded in the movies.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Other: sessions style, but everything crossfaded that was crossfaded in the movies.

Like it's always musically right the way it was edited together in the movie...

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Every sensible crossfade should be retained.

[Jay 37,289]

Here's a better way my explain it:

 

Every cue in its own track, unless the composer intended two cues to segue together.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

23 hours ago, Jay said:

Here's a better way my explain it:

 

Every cue in its own track, unless the composer intended two cues to segue together.

Pretty much that. I mean, I'm happy to have the Battle of Hoth as a single track, but wouldn't complain if it were broken down into individual tracks, but definitely happy to leave it broadly to the discretion of an experienced producer. Sometimes there's enough momentum from one cue to the next where it makes sense for them to play continuously but any point where there's a clear gap then it makes sense to put one in, even if it's a short one, as a breather.

 

A couple of minor digressions on the same topic.... Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall anyone mentioning that in Solo, Dice and Roll is presumably meant to effectively play continuously into the end credits, but there is a small gap. I don't mind hugely although it does slightly kill the momentum having that gap, a bit like the clunky gap between the revised Victory Celebration and the End Credits on the 1997 Jedi album. Then again, the film version edits them together and it doesn't quite work... I'm surprised JW didn't write it with a view to ensuring the segue still worked. Then again, if it were up to me, he'd have kept the less ostentatious finale/credits segue from Star Wars which I vastly prefer. OK, I digressed too much.

 

I've been a bit frustrated by the way some of the Disney Legacy albums have been edited as they play almost continuously, even from one track to another. Mostly it's OK, but sometimes the gap really needed to be longer. Particularly noticeable on Beauty and the Beast where a couple of the score tracks pick up just a bit too quickly after a song even when they aren't especially meant to. Not deal breaking and not always an issue, but it does make you realise how good production can ensure the rhythm of an album can be impacted with only minor differences.

[Pellaeon 593]

I would hope the new material recorded in 1997 (Victory Celebration, etc.) would not be in the main programme; that should be the 1983 score.

 

Re: Beauty and the Beast, can you explain? The presentation I have always heard has all the songs first and then all the instrumental cues.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

2 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

I would hope the new material recorded in 1997 (Victory Celebration, etc.) would not be in the main programme; that should be the 1983 score.

 

Ideally they would have the option of the ending of Jedi with either version, although which one was the main programme and which was the bonus would likely remain contentious forever (although I'd favour the Ewok Celebration in the main programme and Victory Celebration as the bonus). They might even through in the orchestra and chorus only version that's included on the Arista set...

 

3 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

Re: Beauty and the Beast, can you explain? The presentation I have always heard has all the songs first and then all the instrumental cues.

 

This is the Legacy Editions which are (mostly) complete new versions of some classic Disney scores. They have done Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid and Pocahontas by Alan Menken. For these editions, the songs and score are sequenced chronologically as they appear in the films. But yes, the original soundtracks are songs first, score second (although of the Menken scores, Hunchback is essentially film order... yet to receive a Legacy Edition).

[Richard Penna 3,672]

I usually go for sessions-style, supplemented by putting multiple short cues in the same track (separated by silence), and re-ordering the odd thing for listening.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Album style, exact replicas of the OSTs.

[crumbs 14,301]

Complete film score > Concert suites > Alternates/rarities

 

No tracks longer than 5-6 minutes, except the credits suite. Certainly no gigantic combo tracks like the Battle of Endor on the ROTJ SE.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Everyting in one gigantic suite.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

No tracks longer than 5-6 minutes

Why would you generalize it like that? Time Past / Saving Buckbeak works and if it makes sense musically I don't care about the actual lenght.

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Certainly no gigantic combo tracks like the Battle of Endor on the ROTJ SE.

The point here is that they do not belong together and that is remarkably abvious.

[publicist 4,643]

19 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Everyting in one gigantic suite.

 

Because 'suite' has an enigmatic allure to many score fans and automatically upsells simple music edits into the realms of the concert hall.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It helps choppy cues flow better.

[stravinsky 203]

On 8/9/2017 at 9:54 PM, BloodBoal said:

 

So, let's say for a complete Potter release, you'd like to have each cue for the Quidditch Match sequence to be presented separately?

 

I think in terms of the original Trilofy scores it would be like hearing everything anew. I really hope any future expanded release separates each and every single cue. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

11 minutes ago, stravinsky said:

I think in terms of the original Trilofy scores it would be like hearing everything anew. I really hope any future expanded release separates each and every single cue. 

 

I don't think John would ever approve such a release.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Absurd idea as well. Too many folks here have become accustomed to hearing session leaks of all these itty bitty cues all thoughtlessly dumped into a computer folder, and think that's how an official release should be. Fuck that, I don't want to spend time editing shit, I just wanna drop it in the tray, close it and press play.

[stravinsky 203]

5 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

I don't think John would ever approve such a release.

 

Can I ask was it yourself who put up your own edits of the scores on YouTube? 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

1 hour ago, stravinsky said:

Can I ask was it yourself who put up your own edits of the scores on YouTube? 

 

Film Score Media? Yessir.