Brahmserud 0 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hello guys! I haven´t written anything in here since the early naughties but now my comeback will kick off with a humble query about two specific arrangements; as performed by the City of Prague Philharmonic and included in the Silva Screen 6 CD box "The music of John Williams - The Definitive Collection" from 2012. I´m referring specifically to the extended versions of "Double Trouble" and "A window to the past". To my ears these two specific pieces sound like typical (and very thoughtful) JW "re-writings" in the same manner that he often creates for concert use but I can´t find any information anywhere about how or when (or even by whom) these are made. Are they JW originals or has some other composer/arranger masterfully arranged them to their new expanded (and as far as I'm concerned much more fulfilling) versions??? If they´re not from JW I´d love to meet the person behind them because (in my humble opinion) they blow their respective soundtrack counterparts clear of the water. Thoughts about this anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I believe John Williams created concert arrangements for both Double Trouble and A Window to the Past which he premiered in 2004 along with Wizards, Wands and Witches suite. The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra release doesn't have the arranger information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 A Window To The Past from that collection is one of my most played John Williams tracks of all time. It’s amazing. Arpy and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, rough cut said: A Window To The Past from that collection is one of my most played John Williams tracks of all time. It’s amazing. An excellent arrangement. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Well played as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 32 minutes ago, rough cut said: Well played as well. Yes indeed considering the patchy track record City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra has with Williams' material. Hal Leonard Publishing also offers Williams' own Signature Edition arrangement of the HPPOA suite including I. Witches, Wands and Wizards (4:40) II. Aunt Marge's Waltz (2:10) III. The Knight Bus (2:50) IV. A Bridge to the Past (3:45) V. Double Trouble (w/SATB chorus; full set includes 40 SATB octavos) (2:45) Brahmserud and bollemanneke 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 What is the thematic material in the first movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: What is the thematic material in the first movement? Quidditch, Third Year Chasing Scabbers the flute cue for the bird that flies into the whomping willow Snowball Fight TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 It is basically a compilation of material combining Quidditch 3rd Year, Chasing Scabbers, the flute solo from the Secrets of the Castle and The Snowball Fight. Ah ninja'd by Stu. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Sorry I've listened to those City of Prague tracks so much because they're the only performance of the full suite. It's a shame because, while I agree their "Window to the Past" is quite good, they slow down "Snowball Fight" way too much. The bird cue is too slow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 25 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Quidditch, Third Year Chasing Scabbers the flute cue for the bird that flies into the whomping willow Snowball Fight Ok, next question. Is it possible to create this editorially using the OST or does it contain unreleased material? You know, for those of us that have nothing better to do... bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The transitions are definitely not recreatable with the OST cues. And I don't have detailed info, but I believe the arrangements are subtly different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I always thought that Marge’s Waltz sounds better in theory than it actually does. When I listen to it, I always go “well, this is good, if only... just a little bit more of... if the arrangement would just...” I want it to have the oumph of the ending of “Presenting The Hook” from Hook, or reveal itself to be a distant cousin of “Devil’s Dance” from Witches of Eastwick” And at the end of it all, it’s frustrating. So close to greatness, but it ends up being... lackluster. I would love for a new arrangement of this to pop up and blow me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I see what you're saying, but the melody is so damn catchy. I can listen to that full OST, with so many great melodies, but I'll be whistling Marge's Waltz the rest of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I just listened to the Witches, Wizards and Wands on Youtube and the performance is indeed on the slower side. 14 minutes ago, rough cut said: I want it to have the oumph of the ending of “Presenting The Hook” from Hook, or reveal itself to be a distant cousin of “Devil’s Dance” from Witches of Eastwick” Devil's Dance is indeed another piece that should be played fast as the idea is that it expands in orchestration to a dramatic explosion point and changes from playful to thunderously chaotic. There is a solo violin and orchestra version on a CD called Chameleon by a violinist Anja Bukovec. This arrangement of violin and orchestra sounds good in theory but sadly the performance is lethargic when it needed nimble virtuosity. I have mentioned it before but hearing Indy's Very First Adventure live, which is a very energetic and fast piece, but performed at a lower speed was a weird experience as it felt that the whole orchestra was suddenly in slow motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Personally, I find the WW&W suite incredily clumsy, especially the way Quidditch just... stops. As for Double Trouble, I don't understand why JW just got rid of the second stanza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Personally, I find the WW&W suite incredily clumsy, especially the way Quidditch just... stops. As for Double Trouble, I don't understand why JW just got rid of the second stanza. Agreed. I am generally not of a fan of that kind of approach of just basically editing together film cues instead of writing a fully fleshed out concert suite based on the original score material. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 But it's all we got from my favorite Williams score of this century! I take what meager scraps I am given. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Where can I hear these arrangements? Never heard them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 https://www.amazon.com/Music-John-Williams-Definitive-Collection/dp/B006YZAPVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I’ve said it many times before, and I’ll say it again. Great album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I actually never bothered to pick it up. Maybe I'll get it for myself during the holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The best concert presentation of Double Trouble is from the end credits from 0:34 to 2:45. If this had a clean ending, this would be the best representation of that theme. https://youtu.be/zg__wAowsLs?t=36s Once and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nightscape94 965 Posted November 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2017 Agreed. The end credits for POA still piss me off since it started out fantastically, and then segued into a bunch of theme edits stitched together. To be blunt, it had the potential of being one of Williams greatest end credit suites. Shame. Jediwashington, crumbs and bollemanneke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, rough cut said: I’ve said it many times before, and I’ll say it again. Great album! Um... No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,284 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 On 11/1/2017 at 9:36 AM, crumbs said: Where can I hear these arrangements? Never heard them! On 11/1/2017 at 9:53 AM, nightscape94 said: https://www.amazon.com/Music-John-Williams-Definitive-Collection/dp/B006YZAPVE Or: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WGY44A Or: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00701QW1S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,983 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I've never heard any of the Prague this performance so I'm not even familiar with Window to the Past arrangement. But I've heard the first three movements from the suite played live and it was a lot of fun. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 8 hours ago, crocodile said: I've never heard any of the Prague this performance so I'm not even familiar with Window to the Past arrangement. But I've heard the first three movements from the suite played live and it was a lot of fun. Karol I have heard the whole suite live. On 19.5.2009 at 8:31 AM, Incanus said: Witches, Wand and Wizards: Quidditch Third Year (relentless, breathless piece and very well performed), Chasing Scabbers, Secrets of the Castle part 2 (the wonderful flute solo for the poor bird meets the Whomping Willow scene) and Snowball Fight plus a flute coda. The Flautist was really superb. Aunt Marge's Waltz The Knight Bus A Window to the Past: The concert version with the lovely oboe solo. Another piece superbly performed. Highlight of the evening for me. Double Trouble: Funniest selection of the evening Three members of the orchestra suddenly stand up on conductor's orders, a violinist, an alto violinist and a cellist, and form a wizardly trio (all dressed up in costumes) to sing the song with gusto and funny enthusiasm. Both fun and a good way to end the evening. Disco Stu and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I'm just listening to a piano arrangement of the whole Azkaban suite and have to say it's such a weird construct. Especially Witches, Wizards and Wands feels so cobbled together (well, it is). Same for Knight Bus. Buckbeak's Flight's exlusion is such a misser too. And then Double Trouble completely discards the second stanza and needlessly elaborates on the first. Just weird. Only Bridge to the Past stands out, really. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I remember the question of this arrangement coming up before (maybe in this very thread), and I listened to the "Window to the Past" arrangement without it making much impression on me. Not so this time. It's excellent! (Maybe I have better speakers now than I had in 2017?) Thanks for bumping this, @bollemanneke! Muad'Dib and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 It took until the last two posts for me to realize this thread was from 2017, but it got me listening to that City of Prague album, so it's been a fun time. Haven't gotten up to the Potter stuff yet, though. igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Wow, and you still haven't turned it off in disgust? The LSO, BP or LA Phil really needs to record all three suites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 When the music's pretty, they do an amazing job. When it's frantic, fast, and action packed, they don't know wtf is going on. crumbs and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I'm really annoyed with Prague because of how lazy they got with recording Harry Potter. Their "complete" Harry Potter collection only has three tracks from the last three films, and only one of those appears to be original to the album and not reused from a previous album. This is the same Prague/Silva Screen that knowingly released their Twilight Saga album less than a year before the last score came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,800 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 3/8/2021 at 6:03 PM, bollemanneke said: I'm just listening to a piano arrangement of the whole Azkaban suite and have to say it's such a weird construct. Especially Witches, Wizards and Wands feels so cobbled together (well, it is). Same for Knight Bus. Buckbeak's Flight's exlusion is such a misser too. And then Double Trouble completely discards the second stanza and needlessly elaborates on the first. Just weird. Only Bridge to the Past stands out, really. But both Double Trouble and Knight Bus have excellent endings, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Oh yes, agreed, it's just the Double Trouble middle part that is so terribly off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 17 hours ago, Drew said: I'm really annoyed with Prague because of how lazy they got with recording Harry Potter. Their "complete" Harry Potter collection only has three tracks from the last three films, and only one of those appears to be original to the album and not reused from a previous album. This is the same Prague/Silva Screen that knowingly released their Twilight Saga album less than a year before the last score came out. I kinda can't blame them. I wouldn't want to waste space on the last three or four movies worth of Potter music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said: I kinda can't blame them. I wouldn't want to waste space on the last three or four movies worth of Potter music. Hmm. I like all of the HP scores. None of them are bad music. Some of them just are not JW quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I wouldn't use the word "bad" to describe them. Lifeless and forgettable would more accurately describe it, though I know there are some who dig at least the last two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I think Hooper's music is fine and if you take away the words "Harry Potter", then everyone would have said they were decent fantasy scores. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,280 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 41 minutes ago, Drew said: I think Hooper's music is fine and if you take away the words "Harry Potter", then everyone would have said they were decent fantasy scores. Exactly that. They aren’t up to JW or even Patrick Doyle but they’re more engaging and colourful than Alexandre Desplat’s efforts which I’ve never been able to get into at all (and I generally like his stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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