Barnald 363 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Me, I'd be happy with having a complete Black and Asian cast, with lots of lesbian and gay characters, just to piss you off! If I didn't know better I'd say you were a Neogaf refugee who murdered BB and took over his account. Bilbo and DarthDementous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 363 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 But what if the Balrog is also black trans gay? We can't discount this possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 3372 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3609 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Neogaf is awesome! I'm not sure what is this "BB" you're referring to, though. Breaking Bad? Great show! The Balrog will just be as Tolkien described him: shadow and flame. He will have no identifiable gender nor skin colour nor sexual orientation, not to offend anyone. It will have wings though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 363 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: The Balrog will just be as Tolkien described him: shadow and flame. He will have no identifiable gender nor skin colour nor sexual orientation, not to offend anyone. Surely they've come up with an official designation for this persuasion by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 3372 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 30 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Me, I'd be happy with having a complete Black and Asian cast, with lots of lesbian and gay characters, just to piss you off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 2931 Posted November 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 4, 2017 The stories of Middle Earth take place in a part of the continent that is supposed to parallel continental Europe, so there is a reason for there not being Asian or Black characters. The only chance was in Laketown, but that part of the series already had a lot of characters: Bard, his daughters, again, the Master, Alfrid, Percy, etc... Insisting on this too much is a really regressive approach to diversity, to the point that it becomes a matter of box checking. To me, it's enough that the movie isn't racist or homophobic in its messages. John, Nick1Ø66, Holko and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 484 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 . Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 363 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Don't be silly guys, we all know logic has no place in this project. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 For once, I'm glad Christopher is still around and is very protective of his father's vision. If the Tolkien Estate is in the talks, he'll try and make sure it'll be so faithful to the books it'll be almost unwatchable. gkgyver and Bilbo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 363 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Quite a few people think that might be a mistake, and that the article might have meant Middle-earth Enterprises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1643 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Barnald said: Don't be silly guys, we all know logic has no place in this project. We all know that people nowadays have become so sensible towards being given a bad hand and being allegedly discriminated, that it has become a mass paranoia, where social pressure, created by media-born images, forces people into uncomfortable molds, where they are unhappy, not themselves, and much more likely to lash out. Not in honest feelings of being hurt by a movie or comment, but in envy, that others dare to say and do what they themselves can't or won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1126 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 On 4 November 2017 at 2:44 AM, JohnSolo said: Perhaps a Silmarillion adaption? Nah, I've already informally reserved the rights to adapt The Silmarillion. I haven't technically informed the Tolkien Estate, but they're sure to have seen my declaration and synopsis on JWFan. I'll let you know when it's made. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2031 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Are you... Disney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1126 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 The Disnerillion... Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Ain't no way the Estate is going anywhere near Disney. Tolkien hated Walt. Warner Brothers effectively have the right to the entire second age. If you think about it, the Silmarillion doesn't really add something that substantial to the deluge of Numenore compared to the Appendices of Lord of the Rings. Too bad it just isn't as good a story. By that Way, the mention of "Blue Wizards" in An Unexpected Journey is technically a violation of rights: they're never called that in Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Goes to show that the Estate isn't as overprotective as we are made to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 "Blue Wizard" is not a term Tolkien actually invented, so I'm not sure using it constitutes a violation of rights. Actually naming them (Alatar and Pallando), now that would constitute a violation of rights. John and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 They did name Ungoliant, I don't remember if that name actually popped up in the bowels of the Appendices or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Yep, found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3609 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Ain't no way the Estate is going anywhere near Disney. Tolkien hated Walt. Warner Brothers effectively have the right to the entire second age. If you think about it, the Silmarillion doesn't really add something that substantial to the deluge of Numenore compared to the Appendices of Lord of the Rings. Too bad it just isn't as good a story. By that Way, the mention of "Blue Wizards" in An Unexpected Journey is technically a violation of rights: they're never called that in Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Goes to show that the Estate isn't as overprotective as we are made to think. No it’s more complicated than that . The Appendices are the bones of the Silmarilion and that’s all they can use. Any meat they put on it absolutely has to be different from any additions in the Sil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 And the Unfinished Tales are also off-limits, which are our only source on Númenorian and early Gondorian life. Fuck Bombadil, I want to see the mariner's wife! And Queen Berúthiel's cats! (Technically, they were mentioned in LotR, but the story behing the proverb is forbidden territory.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 You can clearly see the influence of the Unfinished Tales in The Hobbit. It's clear that the screenwriters read "The Quest of Erebor" as they were writing the script. Even Shore didn't use The Hobbit book to write the score. He used the Annotated Hobbit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10254 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: You can clearly see the influence of the Unfinished Tales in The Hobbit. It's clear that the screenwriters read "The Quest of Erebor" as they were writing the script. They were able to use The Quest Of Erebor because a short version of it is contained in the appendix of ROTK. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: They were able to use The Quest Of Erebor because a short version of it is contained in the appendix of ROTK. Sure, but I mean that it feels like they read through the whole thing: the abberivated version in Return of the King doesn't flesh out the White Council or the fate of Thrain in the way that the drafts in "The Quest of Erebor" do, and those scenes in the films, while not directly derived from that material, were clearly inspired by it. Even the idea that Sauron and Smaug are "in league" and that Sauron is behind the Battle of the Five Armies is taken from the idea that, had Smaug not been slayen and/or had Bolg won the Battle of the Five Armies, it would have ensured Sauron's victory in the war of the ring. I think the entire production team worked (or were asked to work) with the annotated Hobbit rather than just the original novel. Here's Shore's copy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10254 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 I'm not sure I get your point? Yes Jackson, Boyens and Walsh know all the books. Thats nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 What I mean is that they know the material even outside of the bounderies of the material they are legally allowed to base their adaptations about so, while they can't draw from it directly, they can use it as inspiration and a rough guideline. I think that's great, both for the adaptations themselves and as a groundwork for whatever future projects this "cinematic universe" entails. Also, these adaptations have, I believe, the "blessing" and support of Tom Shippey, the greatest Tolkien scholar in town. Professor Lotem, who translated Tolkien's writings to Hebrew and has been in touch with Shippey, once told me that Shippey (being the man who replaced Tolkien in his academic position) probably sees himself as an heir of Tolkien's work just as much as Christopher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10254 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 They drew as much as they could from Tolkien's world without risking copyright infringement. Like mentioning the other wizards, but not their names. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 3372 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Also, these adaptations have, I believe, the "blessing" and support of Tom Shippey, the greatest Tolkien scholar in town. Professor Lotem, who translated Tolkien's writings to Hebrew and has been in touch with Shippey, once told me that Shippey (being the man who replaced Tolkien in his academic position) probably sees himself as an heir of Tolkien's work just as much as Christopher. If Shippey thinks this, he's deluded. He's a Tolkien scholar, and probably the world's foremost one, to be sure. But he hasn't spent his life editing Tolkien's manuscripts, and as far as I know isn't associated with the Tolkien estate at all. As far a Tolkien goes, Shippey is basically a very specialised literary critic, but isn't an "inheritor" of anything other than perhaps a certain academic and literary tradition...and Tolkien's seat at Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7536 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I seem to recall him being positive towards some of the changes in that trilogy: namely the way Thranduil is incorperated into the Prologue in An Unexpected Journey. Although to be fair all I've heard from him on the matter comes from the documentarie attached to the production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1643 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: I'm not sure I get your point? Yes Jackson, Boyens and Walsh know all the books. Thats nothing new. Yet, they don't know that Lake-Town isn't located at the Anduin River. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 You could make the argument that since the Anduin is the longest known river in Middle-Earth, it would be a realistic idiom to say "he's halfway down the Anduin by now", as everyone knows that is a great distance. Kind of like he's halfway to the Antarctic or halfway to Timbuktu by now. It's just unfortunately placed, and we're not really given any precedent with idioms of this king. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 It does sound proverbial in the film. Anyhow, there's nothing in the dialogue to suggest that he sailed straight from the river Running into the Anduin, which of course is impossible. Its much better than saying that he's sailing towards somewhere more geographically appropriate but that we never heard of and never hear of again in the films, e.g. Dorwinion. Anyhow, all of this is beyond nitpicking. It never even occurred to me until just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 348 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 This could be good. Lots of different angles they could take this. I don't suggest trying to adapt The Silmarillion though, at least not at first. That's a whole another undertaking in of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5394 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It wouldn't be impossible. As far as The Silmarillion goes, I'd assume an adaptation to focus on Beren and Lúthien, and I wouldn't even be surprised if the writer tied it in with the Downfall of Númenor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 2931 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 The Silmarillion needs to be a film series. Something along the lines of a Beren and Luthien movie (with the story of Feanor told in the opening prologue), the tale of Turin Turambar (probably needs two films), Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin, and a film about the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath. I doubt anyone would touch the fall of Numenor. It's not quite as character driven, and so would be very difficult to adapt to a visual medium. That being said, Beren and Luthien isn't easy to adapt either. It still has fairytale elements that stuck to it across its various drafts (the metamorphosis) and the ending would require the filmmakers to illustrate Luthien's sacrifice while still leaving enough mystery around Mandos. Nick1Ø66 and Dixon Hill 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3609 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 confirmed. multi seasoned set before Fellowship. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5394 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 WE ARE NOW AT DEFCON 1 John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 30902 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I have a feeling this won't be very good bollemanneke and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10254 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 I have a feeling you might be right. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 7999 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 At least they're not overwriting the existing movies. If set before Fellowship, it could be about Young Aragorn and the hunt for Gollum, or something like that. But yeah, I don't have any expectations this'll be good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1643 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Scouring of the Shire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3251 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Good Lord... And with that, the Tolkien subforum just renewed its lease for the next 10 years. JWMike and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5394 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hang on so this is directly tied into the existing New Line features? I suppose it's possible Shore's themes could be implemented to some extent then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10254 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Would you want TV versions of his themes, done by someone else though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 363 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 If they did this with thought and care, they could make something interesting, even if it did require embellishment. They won't however. Setting it outside of the films merely gives them free licence to make up loads of bullshit, bullshit of the very worst sort (see my previous concerns). Will they be borrowing the iconography established by the films then? I take it they're allowed, given the deal with Warner. And yes, the music situation will also be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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