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Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring! (Rings of Power news thread)


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9 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Me, I'd be happy with having a complete Black and Asian cast, with lots of lesbian and gay characters, just to piss you off!

 

If I didn't know better I'd say you were a Neogaf refugee who murdered BB and took over his account.

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4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Neogaf is awesome!

 

I'm not sure what is this "BB" you're referring to, though. Breaking Bad? Great show!

 

 

The Balrog will just be as Tolkien described him: shadow and flame. He will have no identifiable gender nor skin colour nor sexual orientation, not to offend anyone.

It will have wings though!

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5 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

The Balrog will just be as Tolkien described him: shadow and flame. He will have no identifiable gender nor skin colour nor sexual orientation, not to offend anyone.

 

Surely they've come up with an official designation for this persuasion by now?

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30 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Me, I'd be happy with having a complete Black and Asian cast, with lots of lesbian and gay characters, just to piss you off!

 

 

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For once, I'm glad Christopher is still around and is very protective of his father's vision. If the Tolkien Estate is in the talks, he'll try and make sure it'll be so faithful to the books it'll be almost unwatchable.

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1 hour ago, Barnald said:

Don't be silly guys, we all know logic has no place in this project.

 

We all know that people nowadays have become so sensible towards being given a bad hand and being allegedly discriminated, that it has become a mass paranoia, where social pressure, created by media-born images, forces people into uncomfortable molds, where they are unhappy, not themselves, and much more likely to lash out. Not in honest feelings of being hurt by a movie or comment, but in envy, that others dare to say and do what they themselves can't or won't.

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On 4 November 2017 at 2:44 AM, JohnSolo said:

Perhaps a Silmarillion adaption?

 

Nah, I've already informally reserved the rights to adapt The Silmarillion. I haven't technically informed the Tolkien Estate, but they're sure to have seen my declaration and synopsis on JWFan. I'll let you know when it's made.

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Ain't no way the Estate is going anywhere near Disney. Tolkien hated Walt.

 

Warner Brothers effectively have the right to the entire second age. If you think about it, the Silmarillion doesn't really add something that substantial to the deluge of Numenore compared to the Appendices of Lord of the Rings. Too bad it just isn't as good a story.

 

By that Way, the mention of "Blue Wizards" in An Unexpected Journey is technically a violation of rights: they're never called that in Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Goes to show that the Estate isn't as overprotective as we are made to think.

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They did name Ungoliant, I don't remember if that name actually popped up in the bowels of the Appendices or not.

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11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Ain't no way the Estate is going anywhere near Disney. Tolkien hated Walt.

 

Warner Brothers effectively have the right to the entire second age. If you think about it, the Silmarillion doesn't really add something that substantial to the deluge of Numenore compared to the Appendices of Lord of the Rings. Too bad it just isn't as good a story.

 

By that Way, the mention of "Blue Wizards" in An Unexpected Journey is technically a violation of rights: they're never called that in Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Goes to show that the Estate isn't as overprotective as we are made to think.

 

No it’s more complicated than that .

 

The Appendices are the bones of the Silmarilion and that’s all they can use. 

 

Any meat they put on it absolutely has to be different from any additions in the Sil. 

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And the Unfinished Tales are also off-limits, which are our only source on Númenorian and early Gondorian life. Fuck Bombadil, I want to see the mariner's wife! And Queen Berúthiel's cats! (Technically, they were mentioned in LotR, but the story behing the proverb is forbidden territory.)

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You can clearly see the influence of the Unfinished Tales in The Hobbit. It's clear that the screenwriters read "The Quest of Erebor" as they were writing the script.

 

Even Shore didn't use The Hobbit book to write the score. He used the Annotated Hobbit!

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

You can clearly see the influence of the Unfinished Tales in The Hobbit. It's clear that the screenwriters read "The Quest of Erebor" as they were writing the script.

 

They were able to use The Quest Of Erebor because a short version of it is contained in the appendix of ROTK.

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

They were able to use The Quest Of Erebor because a short version of it is contained in the appendix of ROTK.

 

Sure, but I mean that it feels like they read through the whole thing: the abberivated version in Return of the King doesn't flesh out the White Council or the fate of Thrain in the way that the drafts in "The Quest of Erebor" do, and those scenes in the films, while not directly derived from that material, were clearly inspired by it.

 

Even the idea that Sauron and Smaug are "in league" and that Sauron is behind the Battle of the Five Armies is taken from the idea that, had Smaug not been slayen and/or had Bolg won the Battle of the Five Armies, it would have ensured Sauron's victory in the war of the ring.

 

I think the entire production team worked (or were asked to work) with the annotated Hobbit rather than just the original novel. Here's Shore's copy:

Picture1.png

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What I mean is that they know the material even outside of the bounderies of the material they are legally allowed to base their adaptations about so, while they can't draw from it directly, they can use it as inspiration and a rough guideline. I think that's great, both for the adaptations themselves and as a groundwork for whatever future projects this "cinematic universe" entails.

 

Also, these adaptations have, I believe, the "blessing" and support of Tom Shippey, the greatest Tolkien scholar in town. Professor Lotem, who translated Tolkien's writings to Hebrew and has been in touch with Shippey, once told me that Shippey (being the man who replaced Tolkien in his academic position) probably sees himself as an heir of Tolkien's work just as much as Christopher.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Also, these adaptations have, I believe, the "blessing" and support of Tom Shippey, the greatest Tolkien scholar in town. Professor Lotem, who translated Tolkien's writings to Hebrew and has been in touch with Shippey, once told me that Shippey (being the man who replaced Tolkien in his academic position) probably sees himself as an heir of Tolkien's work just as much as Christopher.

 

If Shippey thinks this, he's deluded.

 

He's a Tolkien scholar, and probably the world's foremost one, to be sure. But he hasn't spent his life editing Tolkien's manuscripts, and as far as I know isn't associated with the Tolkien estate at all. As far a Tolkien goes, Shippey is basically a very specialised literary critic, but isn't an "inheritor" of anything other than perhaps a certain academic and literary tradition...and Tolkien's seat at Leeds.

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I seem to recall him being positive towards some of the changes in that trilogy: namely the way Thranduil is incorperated into the Prologue in An Unexpected Journey. Although to be fair all I've heard from him on the matter comes from the documentarie attached to the production.

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3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I'm not sure I get your point?

 

Yes Jackson, Boyens and Walsh know all the books. Thats nothing new.

 

Yet, they don't know that Lake-Town isn't located at the Anduin River.

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You could make the argument that since the Anduin is the longest known river in Middle-Earth, it would be a realistic idiom to say "he's halfway down the Anduin by now", as everyone knows that is a great distance. Kind of like he's halfway to the Antarctic or halfway to Timbuktu by now. It's just unfortunately placed, and we're not really given any precedent with idioms of this king.

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It does sound proverbial in the film.

 

Anyhow, there's nothing in the dialogue to suggest that he sailed straight from the river Running into the Anduin, which of course is impossible.

 

Its much better than saying that he's sailing towards somewhere more geographically appropriate but that we never heard of and never hear of again in the films, e.g. Dorwinion.

 

Anyhow, all of this is beyond nitpicking. It never even occurred to me until just now.

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This could be good. Lots of different angles they could take this. I don't suggest trying to adapt The Silmarillion though, at least not at first. That's a whole another undertaking in of itself. 

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It wouldn't be impossible. As far as The Silmarillion goes, I'd assume an adaptation to focus on Beren and Lúthien, and I wouldn't even be surprised if the writer tied it in with the Downfall of Númenor.

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The Silmarillion needs to be a film series. Something along the lines of a Beren and Luthien movie (with the story of Feanor told in the opening prologue), the tale of Turin Turambar (probably needs two films), Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin, and a film about the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath.

 

I doubt anyone would touch the fall of Numenor. It's not quite as character driven, and so would be very difficult to adapt to a visual medium.

 

That being said, Beren and Luthien isn't easy to adapt either. It still has fairytale elements that stuck to it across its various drafts (the metamorphosis) and the ending would require the filmmakers to illustrate Luthien's sacrifice while still leaving enough mystery around Mandos.

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At least they're not overwriting the existing movies. If set before Fellowship, it could be about Young Aragorn and the hunt for Gollum, or something like that. But yeah, I don't have any expectations this'll be good either.

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If they did this with thought and care, they could make something interesting, even if it did require embellishment. They won't however. Setting it outside of the films merely gives them free licence to make up loads of bullshit, bullshit of the very worst sort (see my previous concerns).

 

Will they be borrowing the iconography established by the films then? I take it they're allowed, given the deal with Warner. And yes, the music situation will also be interesting.

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