Rings of Power Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring! (Rings of Power news thread)

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

A part of me still wonders what he might have done with Saruman.

 

Thinking more about this, it occurs to me that ROP could use someone of Jeremy Iron's stature.  George Lucas was smart of enough to cast Alec Guinness, and Peter Jackson knew what he was doing by brining in Ian McKellen. Both Lucas & Jackson knew that these fantastical stories needed an actor of gravitas to anchor the whole thing.  Even Star Trek TNG had Patrick Stewart, and I think people underestimate how much credibility Sean Bean brought to Game of Thrones early on. In fact if you read about the making of GOT, Bean was brought on specifically for this reason. Who is that person in ROP?

 

I don't know man, without serious actors, and without a very grounded production design, the show could very easily slip into generic TV fantasy, no matter the pedigree of the source material.

 

 

[Chen G. 2948]

23 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Both Lucas & Jackson knew that these fantastical stories needed an actor of gravitas to anchor the whole thing.  Even Star Trek TNG had Patrick Stewart, and I think people underestimate how much credibility Sean Bean brought to Game of Thrones early on. Who is that person in ROP?

 

Right. Even The War of the Rohirrim has the brilliant Brian Cox!

 

To be fair, I think in their mind, probably Peter Mullan (who, all credit to them, was born to play a Dwarf) and Sir Lenny Henry fulfill that function.

[Barnald 364]

52 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

To be fair, I think in their mind, probably Peter Mullan (who, all credit to them, was born to play a Dwarf) and Sir Lenny Henry fulfill that function.

 

Amazon's mind must be in a seriously dire state if that's the case.

[Chen G. 2948]

He even appears in the onscreen credits as Sir Lenny Henry, which is something I've not seen since Dame Gwyneth Jones' credit on Quartet.

[Bilbo 3623]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Thinking more about this, it occurs to me that ROP could use someone of Jeremy Iron's stature.  George Lucas was smart of enough to cast Alec Guinness, and Peter Jackson knew what he was doing by brining in Ian McKellen. Both Lucas & Jackson knew that these fantastical stories needed an actor of gravitas to anchor the whole thing.  Even Star Trek TNG had Patrick Stewart, and I think people underestimate how much credibility Sean Bean brought to Game of Thrones early on. In fact if you read about the making of GOT, Bean was brought on specifically for this reason. Who is that person in ROP?

 

I don't know man, without serious actors, and without a very grounded production design, the show could very easily slip into generic TV fantasy, no matter the pedigree of the source material.

 

 

Bean and Dinklage. 
 

could you imagine how quickly HBO would have shut down GoT if someone like Warwick Davis had to be cast as Tyrion?

[Mr. Who 635]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

He even appears in the onscreen credits as Sir Lenny Henry, which is something I've not seen since Dame Gwyneth Jones' credit on Quartet.

I’m not British but I don’t know who Lenny Henry is lol. What has he done before and why is he a given for a hobbit role in Amazon’s eyes?

[Bilbo 3623]

He’s a comedian. And not a very funny one. 

[Mr. Who 635]

I think it’s interesting to see how the marketing Amazon has done for ROP differs so much from what HBO has been doing for HOTD. Even the cast interviews have a different vibe. even the cast of HOTD seem to talk much more about the story, the characters and staying true to the source material than the ROP actors are doing.
 

The ROP message seems to be that they’re changing the world of TV, which given their budget maybe they are, but it just seems a lot less genuine as the focus seems to be so much on how groundbreaking it is and less so on the tolkien that they are telling.

 

Of course, as a huge GRRM fan and being very excited about HOTD, maybe I’m a bit biased but every bit of info I’ve seen from ROP has made me want to watch the show less and less and I definitively won’t watch it while it’s airing which is something I never thought would be the case as a big Tolkien fan lol

[Bilbo 3623]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

I think it’s interesting to see how the marketing Amazon has done for ROP differs so much from what HBO has been doing for HOTD. Even the cast interviews have a different vibe. even the cast of HOTD seem to talk much more about the story, the characters and staying true to the source material than the ROP actors are doing.
 

The ROP message seems to be that they’re changing the world of TV, which given their budget maybe they are, but it just seems a lot less genuine as the focus seems to be so much on how groundbreaking it is and less so on the tolkien that they are telling.

 

Of course, as a huge GRRM fan and being very excited about HOTD, maybe I’m a bit biased but every bit of info I’ve seen from ROP has made me want to watch the show less and less and I definitively won’t watch it while it’s airing which is something I never thought would be the case as a big Tolkien fan lol

When it comes to books I’m definitely more of a Tolkien fan. I have more than an ikea Billy bookcase full of Tolkien books. I was initially excited about the TV show. But like you, the more I’ve seen the less I’ve liked.

 

Hot D has completely pulled me in though. It has the same high production values of GoT, it has an amazing cast, it has a true line with the music and visuals from GoT, it has the potential to be a very good show. There’s loads of potential for great stories in Fire and Blood.

 

RoP is made by people I know nothing about, from a studio who has made nothing that I enjoy, but seems to only want to host about how much money they’ve spent. There’s loads of potential for great stories in the Second Age, but it doesn’t seem as if they’ve gone about it right. They don’t know whether they want us to think of the PJ films or not. 
 

Honestly, I don’t think Amazon knows what they want from this show… aside from more Amazon Prime subscribers. 

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

19 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Honestly, I don’t think Amazon knows what they want from this show… aside from more Amazon Prime subscribers. 

 

I don't think Amazon isn't as concerned with viewers as, for example, Netflix is. Viewers are Netflix's bread and butter, Amazon's is retail sales. Amazon only offers streaming to keep people buying toasters and blenders in their store, and the way they do that is by keeping people in Prime. The association with Tolkien, and a big show like ROP just makes the Amazon brand and Prime more attractive.

 

My guess is the first few episodes will get huge streaming numbers, Amazon's biggest ever, and they'll crow about it. Then the numbers will taper off, and then we'll hear nothing about it. But in any event, given their huge investment in the show, I suspect Amazon is committed to it no matter what the numbers, fans or critics say, and I think it's almost a foregone conclusion it will go the full five seasons.

[Chen G. 2948]

O have mercy!

 

 

 

[Jay 31058]

This show has had a lot of trailers

[Chen G. 2948]

And not one was more consciously high-fantasy/fairytale looking than this one. Those Wargs!

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

I think it’s the result of the disastrous marketing. None of the trailers have been particularly effective thus far, so they keep trying a different tack with each one. Though curiously none of them have said what the show’s about, this still feels like a teaser. I mean, most people familiar with the Appendices can piece together what they’re trying to do, but I imagine casual viewers just see it as something something Lord of the Rings. They’ll find out the truth soon enough.

 

I'm pretty sure Meteor Man is Gandalf. Or at least, Gandalf as he once was.

[Chen G. 2948]

1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Im pretty sure Meteor Man is Gandalf.

 

Me too.

 

And its...the panderingest pandering pander ever pandered in the history of pandering!

[blondheim 1020]

It would be nice if it was a Blue Wizard… but we know it’s not.

[Chen G. 2948]

I think a lot of people think "Eh, it would just be a blue wizard fullfilling the function of Gandalf" but I feel like if its "not Middle Earth without Hobbits" it sure as hell ain't Middle Earth without Gandalf, and the showrunners know this.

 

You don't play around with something like Gandalf: you don't do a red herring Gandalf, you don't do an ersatz Gandalf: you either do the genuine article, or you don't.

[Jay 31058]

But there is no Gandalf theme on the soundtrack release?

[Chen G. 2948]

I doubt its a reveal that happens in this season.

[blondheim 1020]

Oh I completely agree with you. The Stranger is Gandalf and that reveal is not coming this year.

 

but I would be happier if it were a blue wizard. For so many reasons

[Holko 8034]

ugh

[Pellaeon 573]

Unless.....

 

[Nick1Ø66 3425]

If you believe, in the man on the moon...

[Chen G. 2948]

We should be so lucky that it should turn out this isn't Gandalf and those bloody Harfoots undergo a Hobbicaust.

 

But we won't.

[Mr. Who 635]

55 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I think a lot of people think "Eh, it would just be a blue wizard fullfilling the function of Gandalf" but I feel like if its "not Middle Earth without Hobbits" it sure as hell ain't Middle Earth without Gandalf, and the showrunners know this.

 

You don't play around with something like Gandalf: you don't do a red herring Gandalf, you don't do an ersatz Gandalf: you either do the genuine article, or you don't.

If they are gonna include Gandalf, why can’t he just arrive on a boat? Why do the meteor story?

Just now, Chen G. said:

We should be so lucky that it should turn out this isn't Gandalf and those bloody Harfoots undergo a Hobbicaust.

 

But we won't.

Maybe they will show something similar to the scourging of the shire with the harfoots?

[Jay 31058]

I thought people thought The Stranger was Sauron based on the album.  Now people say The Stranger is Gandalf?  Then who is Sauron?

[Bilbo 3623]

Amazon really does not have any idea how to market thing….

[Chen G. 2948]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I thought people thought The Stranger was Sauron based on the album. 

 

If the identity of the Stranger is not revealed in this season - which I think its likely - then to base any conclusions on who he might be from the album. Its like...remember those people who tried to find clues to who Snoke was or what's Rey's lineage by looking at Williams' music?

[Jay 31058]

Hehehe

[Incanus 5569]

The fan fiction just gets more fan fictional. What a travesty.

[Holko 8034]

"fan" fiction

[Jay 31058]

Can someone remind me what the LOTR appendices tell us that Gandalf, Radagast, Sarumon, and the blue wizards are up to during the Second Age?

[Incanus 5569]

Just now, Holko said:

"fan" fiction

Yeah that should indeed be in quotes.

[Barnald 364]

23 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

We should be so lucky that it should turn out this isn't Gandalf and those bloody Harfoots undergo a Hobbicaust.

 

But we won't.

 

That's about the only scene I'd watch at this point.

[Holko 8034]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Can someone remind me what the LOTR appendices tell us that Gandalf, Radagast, Sarumon, and the blue wizards are up to during the Second Age?

They arrive c. 1000 Third Age. So that's simple, they were just hanging around in Valinor.

[Jay 31058]

Ahhhh yes that's right, of course!  I remember now!

 

So yea The Stranger being Gandalf (or any wizard) would be a straight up contradiction of Tolkien's intentions.

[JohnTheBaptist 47]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I think it’s the result of the disastrous marketing. None of the trailers have been particularly effective thus far, so they keep trying a different tack with each one. Though curiously none of them have said what the show’s about, this still feels like a teaser. I mean, most people familiar with the Appendices can piece together what they’re trying to do, but I imagine casual viewers just see it as something something Lord of the Rings. They’ll find out the truth soon enough.

 

I'm pretty sure Meteor Man is Gandalf. Or at least, Gandalf as he once was.

You're assuming that Amazon pays any attention to what creepy internet nerds have to say. This is for general audiences. The idea that multiple trailers being released is a sign that the previous ones "failed" is so absurd that I have to wonder if you've been in a coma for 30 years. Every major production has multiple trailers, especially ones that need to recoup a billion dollar investment. 

[Barnald 364]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

So yea The Stranger being Gandalf (or any wizard) would be a straight up contradiction of Tolkien's intentions.

 

Thank goodness we have that bastion of fidelity, the Tolkien Estate, to keep Amazon on the straight and narrow, eh?

[TheUlyssesian 2247]

I guess I just don't understand this about modern story-telling. How can the cast of characters of a show be a spoiler? It is just bizarre to me. Is even the premise of a show, who's in a show nowadays a twist?

 

Like jesus christ. Why not do a regular story about Numernor, its corruption and downfall - that's plenty dramatic enough. Do there have to be twists? And reveals? And hoodwinking?

 

I am trying to think where does this originate from? This is not germane to Tolkein right? Someone remind me - but LOTR isn't founded on sudden twists or sudden reveals right? Sure there are several deux ex machina - but its not the same thing as constant charades.

[Jay 31058]

2 minutes ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

You're assuming that Amazon pays any attention to what creepy internet nerds have to say. This is for general audiences. The idea that multiple trailers being released is a sign that the previous ones "failed" is so absurd that I have to wonder if you've been in a coma for 30 years. Every major production has multiple trailers, especially ones that need to recoup a billion dollar investment. 

 

Is it possible for you to share an opinion you have that is different from another poster's opinion without being so argumentative and aggressive?

[Holko 8034]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

So yea The Stranger being Gandalf (or any wizard) would be a straight up contradiction of Tolkien's intentions.

Pretty much everything they're doing with Galadriel is, too

[Pellaeon 573]

Tolkien did decide that the Blue Wizards and Glorfindel arrive in Middle-earth in the 2nd Age. This was published in The Peoples of Middle-earth.

 

Of course they arrive by boat. Elven ships, I mean. I.e., space ships.

 

So nobody seriously likes my Man in the Moon idea? He is really a Tolkien character who appears in at least 5 writings I can think of, most significantly Roverandom where he is described as a powerful wizard, and in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, essentially a collection of “hobbit lore” (although the one where the Man in the Moon falls from the sky is a Gondorian legend). If the showrunners went looking for hobbit legends, they might have found it.

[Jay 31058]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Pretty much everything they're doing with Galadriel is, too

 

What do the appendices say that Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Celebrían are up to during the Second Age again?

 

2 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

So nobody seriously likes my Man in the Moon idea? He is really a Tolkien character who appears in at least 5 writings I can think of, most significantly Roverandom where he is described as a powerful wizard, and in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, essentially a collection of “hobbit lore” (although the one where the Man in the Moon falls from the sky is a Gondorian legend). If the showrunners went looking for hobbit legends, they might have found it.

 

I thought the showrunners only had rights to the LOTR appendices and nothing else?

[Chen G. 2948]

45 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I am trying to think where does this originate from? This is not germane to Tolkein right? Someone remind me - but LOTR isn't founded on sudden twists or sudden reveals right? Sure there are several deux ex machina - but its not the same thing as constant charades.

 

I'm going to far afield with this and feel free to stop me at any point if you think I'm talking nonesense, but for the meanwhile, humour me.

 

This the first Middle Earth project (well, since Bakshi's) that's helmed by Americans. Could it be that these showrunners have been reared on another, more American fantasy series - Star Wars, for instance - and are importing some of its style, including a prediliction to surprises and plot twists? I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this show seems Star Wars-flavoured to me.

[JohnTheBaptist 47]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Is it possible for you to share an opinion you have that is different from another poster's opinion without being so argumentative and aggressive?

Everyone here seems upset and angry, I thought I was matching the tone. 

[Holko 8034]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

What do the appendices say that Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Celebrían are up to during the Second Age again?

Explicitly nothing I think. But as Tolkien wrote her, Galadriel was strong but feminine - her power lay in her magic, understanding people and their intentions, foretelling the future or possible futures, never in taking up weapons, leading armies, climbing mountains and shit, the most explicit active such action she takes was with Dol Guldur in the War of the RIng, "[she] threw down its walls and laid bare its pits" after Celeborn took it with the host of Lórien.

 

If Sauron is indeed Halbrand and they have some romance... then they took away everything she had because she never trusted Sauron in any form.

[TheUlyssesian 2247]

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I'm going to far afield with this and feel free to stop me at any point if you think I'm talking nonesense, but for the meanwhile, humour me.

 

This the first Middle Earth project (well, since Bakshi's) that's helmed by Americans. Could it be that these showrunners have been reared on another fantasy series - Star Wars, for instance - and are importing some of its style, including a prediliction to surprises and plot twists? I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this show seems Star Wars-flavoured to me.

 

Or game of thrones. Game of thrones was literally founded on sudden shocks, sudden twists.

 

This is third rate story-telling to me, remember a time when we used to ridicule M Night Shayamalam for this kind of storytelling.

 

It perpetuates this horrifying "spoiler" culture pervading film/tv these days. 

 

If your story is built on surprises and reveals, no wonder it has no replay value because once seen, the story is pointless.

 

That's not what Tolkein is. Tolkein's story is constructed on feeling and insight, of choices made and fate, about moments of courage, and empathy, it is not founded here is a sudden shock twist, here is a sudden reversal, here is a complete twist. That's just ... risible.

 

It's like Wild Things that sleazy Denise Richards movie from the 90s. Twist-twist-twist. 

[Chen G. 2948]

Quite.

 

One of the things I do like though:

 

 

Some people were born to play Dwarves and Peter Mullan is at the top of that list, and now he's playing THE Dwarf!

[JohnTheBaptist 47]

8 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

That's not what Tolkein is. Tolkein's story is constructed on feeling and insight, of choices made and fate, about moments of courage, and empathy, it is not founded here is a sudden shock twist, here is a sudden reversal, here is a complete twist. That's just ... risible.

 

Yeah, Tolkien would never include a shocking twist, like Saruman being in league with Sauron. That would be way beneath him. 

[Bilbo 3623]

19 minutes ago, JohnTheBaptist said:

Everyone here seems upset and angry, I thought I was matching the tone. 

You’re the only one throwing out personal attacks