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Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring!

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There are 4 possibilities

 

1) Shore has absolutely no involvement whatsoever

 

2) Shore writes a few new themes/suites, but another composer scores the actual cues for each episode, sometimes using that material (and old Shore material)

 

3) Another composer scores the show, using Shore's old themes from the movies when appropriate

 

4) Another composer scores the show without using any Shore material at all

 

I think 3 or 4 are certainly most likely, 2 and 1 are possible but not very likely.

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On 2/28/2019 at 11:21 PM, Bilbo said:

I think they will call it The Lord of the Rings. It’s the marketable name. People already know the name. It had three super successful films behind it and it’s the name they’re already using on social media. 

 

Sauron will surely be the big bad of the series. They’re going to want to be able to market pre-existing images for this series. Narsil, the one ring, the great eye. 

 

2nd age allows them to do so much of that and have it tie into the films. 

 

Downfall of Númonor and forging of the Rings definitely seems to be what they’re going for. 

Oh, 2nd age confirmed 

 

 

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I think they'll just get another composer on board and ignore what Shore did. His themes aren't known well enough to the masses.

 

I don't like the idea of Shore writing themes for another composer to use - I've never liked that idea.

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At any rate, Shore has already mapped so many of the thematic material needed to musically chart those stories: There's a Numenore theme; a whole host of thematic material for Sauron and his servants, the Weakness arpeggio will be especially handy for tales of Numenore, as will the Fall of Men, etcetra...

 

What's really missing, in terms of the cultural scheme? A theme for Eregion?

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16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

At any rate, Shore has already mapped so many of the thematic material needed to musically chart those stories: There's a Numenore theme; a whole host of thematic material for Sauron and his servants, the Weakness arpeggio will be especially handy for tales of Numenore, as will the Fall of Men, etcetra...

 

What's really missing, in terms of the cultural scheme? A theme for Eregion?

 

I very much doubt that the hired composer will use or even be familiar with Shore's leitmotivic lexicon. I can see a couple of cameos or references to popular themes (Shire, Fellowship, Ring/Sauron), and maybe building a similar sound to Shore's palette, but none of the other stuff. Many reappearing characters or races/cultures will probably get new themes/ideas.

 

5 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is this going to have the same art direction as the films? Is Peter Jackson production company involved at all? It will be areal shame if everything looks too much different...

 

I believe there were rumours that they would be building off of Jackson's art direction and production design.

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Oh, I agree: especially when it comes to some of the more subtle motives. But here's for hoping!

 

Ideally, any new composer coming to score a property in this series should read (or be compelled to read) @Doug Adams' book/s as a basis for their work; and I do like the concept (unlikely though it may be) of Shore writing a new theme or two.

 

38 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Is this going to have the same art direction as the films? Is Peter Jackson production company involved at all? It will be areal shame if everything looks too much different...

 

They better! The films do offer glimpses into the second age, so we know what Numenorean soldiers should look like; what Ost-in-Edhil looks like, etcetra. Not to mention places which endured to the third age such as Lorien and Lindon.

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4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

At any rate, Shore has already mapped so many of the thematic material needed to musically chart those stories: There's a Numenore theme; a whole host of thematic material for Sauron and his servants, the Weakness arpeggio will be especially handy for tales of Numenore, as will the Fall of Men, etcetra...

 

What's really missing, in terms of the cultural scheme? A theme for Eregion?

2nd age versions.

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18 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Ideally, any new composer coming to score a property in this series should read (or be compelled to read) @Doug Adams' book/s as a basis for their work; and I do like the concept (unlikely though it may be) of Shore writing a new theme or two.

 

Why should they be compelled to follow Shore's work to that extent? That's his master work, and now very likely another composer will likely get to create their own take.

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People seem to be on board with the idea of composers for Star Wars spinoffs using Williams' thematic language; so why not do the same with Shore's (significantly more robust) language, in this series?

 

Again, not that I think its likely but still.

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If it does build on the PJ production design, then throwing well-established themes connected to the world and history out completely and writing something new would be quite incongruous with that. Depends on where they're setting and taking it, of course, but even 2 or 3 nods to Gondor, Nature or the Evil of the Ring would help give it more legitimacy and authenticity.

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Recurring elements in the map such as the Mountains of the East and the presence of Sea Serpents in Belegaer would seem to suggest that the series is in continuity with the films. Its really not surprising: in the era of the cinematic universe, its very much a norm.

 

I do think there's a chance to take Shore's absolutely immense catalogue of recurring themes and build upon it.

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Having a completely different vision for the world could be exciting, if hard to stomach at first, but then everything should be different from Middle Zealand, not just the score or just the... I dunno, elvish design aesthetic.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

People seem to be on board with the idea of composers for Star Wars spinoffs using Williams' thematic language; so why not do the same with Shore's (significantly more robust) language, in this series?

 

Again, not that I think its likely but still.

 

Because Star Wars started with Williams' music as part of its very fabric - and everything evolved from that.  That's quite different to the case of Shore's work on Peter Jackson's films, which although by far the largest in scale and scope, nevertheless sits in the context of many musical interpretations of Middle Earth by other composers, such as Stephen Oliver, Donald Swann, Leonard Rosenman, Johann de Meij to name but a few.

 

I personally do not wish to hear any of Shore's music in this new adaptation - it should have its own identity conceived by a new composer.

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True - it's the only major live-action adaptation.  But the point I was making was that Star Wars started life as a film with a score, and everything else that's happened grew out from that.  Middle Earth existed long before Jackson or Shore came along, and many other composers had a bash at it in the meantime.

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But being that its most likely going to be in continuity with the films (the map is taken from The Lord of the Rings, with features which are unique to the adaptation), it makes sense for there to be continuity in the music, as well.

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The problem with commissioning new LOTR music is that Shore had extreme amounts of time to make sure it was great. Even getting a very good composer to replace him will not be enough unless everything is written and pre-produced way in advance.

I have heard a work rivaling a LOTR score only once (save for Williams back in the prime days), and the two composers were given a full year.

This is not happening.

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On 3/10/2019 at 6:46 PM, Incanus said:

Just have Amazon hire Ramin Djawadi and be done with the music!

I rate Djawadi’s GoT a bit better than most on here (a lot of it is generic but there are some very good themes that have seen 7 seasons worth of development and there are some great highlights) but I don’t want him near Middle-earth.

 

There are definitely worse options though. 

 

This would be the perfect oppertunity for Soule though. 

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So they are filming it (or at least most of it) in New Zealand after all:

 

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2019/06/30/106671-amazon-middle-earth-series-to-film-in-new-zealand/

 

 

I'm not convinced they were ever really set on Scotland, I think that was just intended to exert pressure on the New Zealand folks to offer better terms, given that we know negotiations reached an impasse several months back. And that stuff about them wanting safety assurances after Christchurch strikes me as nonsensical (their government has pretty much said as much), you'd struggle to find anywhere safer than New Zealand I'm sure.

 

 

And more new developments: https://deadline.com/2019/07/the-lord-of-the-rings-j-a-bayona-direct-amazon-series-juan-antonio-bayona-1202640048/

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Some of it is still set to be filmed in Scotland, though; or so I gather.

 

I like New Zealand for this series, but sprinkling-in other places to help diversify the landscape isn't a bad idea. Scotland's amazing, and nearby Australia, for instance, could make for one hell of a Harad.

 

Rauros, for instance, was a composite of Niagra falls.

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23 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Some of it is still set to be filmed in Scotland, though; or so I gather.

 

I like New Zealand for this series, but sprinkling-in other places to help diversify the landscape isn't a bad idea. Nearby Australia, for instance, could make for one hell of a Harad. Rauros, for instance, was a composite of Niagra falls.

 

I think they probably will branch out where need be, though being close to WETA and the pre-existing sets (where needed) can only be a good thing.

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lol!  I've never seen a show advertise itself before by spending the time to make a minute and a half listing/montage of the creative staff and what their prior credits are.  Amazon is sure desperate to begin the hype train as soon as possible with this.

 

Cool that John Howe is involved, though!

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The 'writing consultant' is especially peculiar. She has no real credits aside from being an Assistant Editor on a handful of productions. Certainly nothing in terms of writing for film/TV, and no online profile. You'd think... nevermind.

 

Anyway if turns out to be anything other than stupendously awful and a thorough defiling of Tolkien's writing and world I'll sell my arse on Amazon.

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5 hours ago, Barnald said:

The 'writing consultant' is especially peculiar. She has no real credits aside from being an Assistant Editor on a handful of productions. Certainly nothing in terms of writing for film/TV, and no online profile. You'd think... nevermind.

 

I stumbled across one of her tweets:

 

 

I think the show is in good hands.

 

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Oh give me a break. Like Jackson inventing "strong female characters" in his Hobbit trilogy, for a manufactured love triangle no less? How many hours did you waste trawling through their social media feeds just looking for an excuse to be triggered?

 

Believe it or not, people are perfectly capable of separating their personal views from their professional work, especially when it comes to writers and adaptation. Maybe you should wait and see before being so judgemental.

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https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/30918/exklusive-interview-with-tom-shippey-concerning-lotronprime/?fbclid=IwAR3M2TSkuuYJkRs_C0FDAnVqnD-y-XvsYcZqnKlaVaMUXvSDt6NAo-gg3z0

 

Interview with Tom Shippey, snippets about rights and boundaries. The Estate is very much capable of saying no and Amazon cannot write anything that would contradict a word of Tolkien, otherwise they have a relatively free hand. First Age is off limits.

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Almost every TV show has a writer's room, overseen by a showrunner or showrunners.  Shows that are widely considered the best dramas of all time, things like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, The Wire, etc. had writers' rooms.  Shows that maybe aren't so highly regarded but still super-popular do as well - The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc.  This is no different. 

 

There are very few shows that don't.  The typical production schedule doesn't allow for it, for one thing.  Those are usually shows written and/or directed by an auteur.  Twin Peaks The Return didn't.   True Detective was another.  I'm sure if you Googled, you'd find a very short list.

 

To the other part:  I don't think there's necessarily a problem with the estate having their hands in this.  It's a whole age, so the writers have a pretty large canvas.  Maybe a more critical third party would have shaped the Hobbit movies into something more watchable.

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A Writer's room isn't the issue. The need to maintain fidelty to the source material, enforced by a third party, is.

 

Filmmakers need to be merciless - and aplauded for their mercilessness - with handling source material. Imagine if someone told Lean: "No, David, the bridge doesn't explode in the book!" or called Kubrick on his treatment of Stephen King's writing in The Shining.

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