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Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring!


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4 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

I imagine with Ireland you could utilize many of our Norman castles and extend them digitally (much like Game of Thrones).

 

Yeah, but game of thrones takes place in what feels like a much more medieval world. Lord of the Rings feels much more ancient, so you can't use existing castles and old European cities like you do in Game of Thrones.

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You should be thankful people at TORN aren't as lazy as you or I:     That last quote should strike fear into all our hearts. I had to laugh at her answer when pressed on examples of

Let us not deny the Return of the King!      

13 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Yeah, but game of thrones takes place in what feels like a much more medieval world. Lord of the Rings feels much more ancient, so you can't use existing castles and old European cities like you do in Game of Thrones.

 

Look at the shots of Helms Deep on the ground level. That looks just like a medieval castle. When you go wide and see the miniature it obviously looks completely different but for scenes of people in courtyards and hallways it’d be perfect.

 

Minas Tirith is far more European and Reneisance looking though and something like Rivendell just wouldn’t exist without building it. 

 

New Zealand not being available (especially for brand new locations) wouldn’t be the deal breaker for me.

 

Recasting characters (except where appropriate for ages) would be though. 

12 minutes ago, Barnald said:

With regard to the setting, TORN tweeted it would be between The Hobbit and LOTR, so that narrows it down a great deal (and creates potential for all kinds of bollocks). Of course, they might be wrong, who knows?

 

Shadow of Mordor: The TV Series!

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Just now, BloodBoal said:

Of course, it could means loads of things. But whatever they choose to adapt, it would still have to be expanded upon to be made into a full season. Which of course implies made up stuff (good or bad, now that's the question).

 

Oh that’s a given. The Appendices only give the bones of the story. 

 

The Tolkien Estate have been mentioned a bit and some people seem to think that that means the rights The Sil or UT have been sold but I don’t think that’s the case. I think they have to be involved in all discussions because they are entitled to a share of the profits. 

 

Warner Bros have sold the TV rights to the Middle-earth stories that they have. That means The Lord of the Rings. MGM haven’t been mentioned so that excludes Hobbit. 

 

To me that means the show will use whats in the Appendices which seems to be Second Age. 

 

At at least that’s what I’d do.

 

 

Instead we’ll probably get Shadow of Mordor: The TV Series!

Featuring callbacks of callbacks!

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52 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Look at the shots of Helms Deep on the ground level. That looks just like a medieval castle. When you go wide and see the miniature it obviously looks completely different but for scenes of people in courtyards and hallways it’d be perfect.

 

Minas Tirith is far more European and Reneisance looking though and something like Rivendell just wouldn’t exist without building it. 

 

Rohan in general feels like northern Europe in the Middle Ages, so that gets a pass. Gondor doesn't look mediveal at all: its very mediterranean in both its greco-roman touches, and in the use of Ablaq from the Islamic period.

 

Generally speaking, The Lord of the Rings is not only a geographic travel, its time travel: You start in the Shire which is effectivelly an 18-century English farming community, and as you progress geographically you also go further back in history.

 

35 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Oh that’s a given. The Appendices only give the bones of the story. 

 

Everything that exists of the second and third age outside of The Lord of the Rings is basically just connective tissue. The appendices present the material sufficiently. Really, what does the Akallabeth tells us about the downfall of Numenore that the appendices do not?

 

35 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The Tolkien Estate have been mentioned a bit and some people seem to think that that means the rights The Sil or UT have been sold but I don’t think that’s the case. I think they have to be involved in all discussions because they are entitled to a share of the profits. 

 

 

It doesn't. Surely, had such a deal been made it would have come to the public awareness outside of the context of this deal. Its the equivalent of the rights to Star Wars being sold to Disney at the time. It would have merited its own headline, to be sure.

 

If anything, I think that in the grand scheme of things, its all just building up towards the Silmarillion which, again, would fare better as a film adaptation.

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19 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Rohan in general feels like northern Europe in the Middle Ages, so that gets a pass. Gondor doesn't look mediveal at all: its very mediterranean in both its greco-roman touches, and in the use of Ablaq from the Islamic period.

 

Generally speaking, The Lord of the Rings is not only a geographic travel, its time travel: You start in the Shire which is effectivelly an 18-century English farming community, and as you progress geographically you also go further back in history.

 

 

Everything that exists of the second and third age outside of The Lord of the Rings is basically just connective tissue. The appendices present the material sufficiently. Really, what does the Akallabeth tells us about the downfall of Numenore that the appendices do not?

 

Detail. Detail that they wouldn’t be able to use without the rights. In fact, they’d have to contradict lots of stuff in Akallabeth if it isn’t clear in the Appendices.

 

See the whole chance meeting stuff from The Hobbit and Quest in UT. 

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It’s a while since I’ve read either and I don’t have them in front of me right now but stuff like names would have to be present in Appendices to be used. 

 

It goes back to the Blue Wizards. They’re mentioned in the Appendices so they can be referenced. They can’t be named though because their names only exist in UT.

 

If the show was to focus on the five wizards they’d have to start making up names. 

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I have. Between the War of Wrath and the sack of Erebor, all that you need is in the appendices. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

It goes back to the Blue Wizards. They’re mentioned in the Appendices so they can be referenced. They can’t be named though because their names only exist in UT.

 

Actually, they are never called Blue Wizards in the Lord of the Rings, so technically using that term was a violation of rights, but the Estate simply knew better than to fuss over such a little detail.

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I've seen a lot of speculation on TORN and such that this project probably won't have anything to do with Jackson's cinematic vision, both in terms of aesthetics and narrative cohesion. But this doesn't make sense to me if they're doing a prequel series and New Line/WB are on board. I mean, why not just do a full-on reboot of the LOTR if you want to forge your own vision? No, I have to think this will look to connect to the films, as this will help generate infinitely more interest.

 

As for Jackson, Deadline are saying he's yet to be contacted. While I don't expect him to be involved per se, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Amazon tried to get him on board as an Executive Producer (which we all know is largely meaningless anyway), just so they can use that branding. Moreover, if they're looking to build this around the films they'll have to liase extensively with Weta, even if they won't be utilizing their services as such (of course we don't yet know if they are).

 

One thought - if MGM aren't involved, does that mean they can't use designs/creations from The Hobbit films, or do they lie with Warner? Happily this would mean no Tauriel, but if they do have Balin you would want him to be Ken Stott, looking as similar as possible (ditto Oin, but I'd very much welcome a new Ori). Christ what the fuck am I talking about, of course they won't have Balin in this, that storyline isn't sexy enough. Speaking of sexy, Elladan and Elrohir have to be certs right?

 

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

Those expecting NZ+ Shore are likely to be disappointed... The music is one of the aspects I'm the least hopeful for. Production design? Probably/hopefully will be a great/the best aspect of the show. The cast? Probably will be fine. The scripts? A bit of a question mark at the moment. The music? Yeah, no...

 

 

Much of it will probably be made up stuff, anyway. Tolkien didn't go into enough detail to fill entire seasons. Expect newly-created characters, too.

 

 

Thing is, I'm not actually against additions in principle, so long as they're done thoughtfully and adhere to the spirit (and logic) of Tolkien's works. Trouble is, I can't see that happening.

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Why are people so convinced it won't be filmed in NZ? Has that already been ruled out?

 

I said previously I thought Europe was the obvious choice...and still is, if they show isn't going to be connected to Jackson's trilogy. But if it is, NZ would seem like a logical place to shoot. I'm not saying it will be filmed there...it probably won't. But why not?

 

As for the arguments that Middle-Earth is "medieval" and therefore you could use existing castles, etc...I'm not sure that would fly, for either exterior or exterior shooting. I'm not sure how many of you have spent a lot of time around castles in Europe, but aside from establishing shots most of them aren't exactly film production ready.  And in any event they'd immediately convey a feeling of old Europe, and not Middle-Earth. GOT is an entirely different thing that it's basically historical fiction, which makes it much more suited to that kind of thing.

 

For those concerned about the budget, news reports are saying this is going to be 100-150 mil per season, which is GOT level.  Budget isn't going to be an issue.

 

 

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It hasn't been ruled out. Really, its all too early to talk about all of these specifics. Its just toying with ideas.

 

I would like it to be filmed in New Zealand. I do believe it will be tied into the existing film series, so Warner Bros can make it into a fully fleshed-out cinematic universe. Not that's its necessarily a good idea, though.

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27 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Not so much a conviction. More of a hunch. Let's say they go the Game Of Thrones route and end up with a mostly European cast, I think it'd be probably easier to shoot in Europe than to convince the whole cast to relocate to New-Zealand for god knows how many years.

 

Well they did for Xena, The Shannara Chronicles and Legend of the Seeker! So if those shows can attract a high calibre cast willing to live in NZ, surely LOTR can as well!

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13 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

I said "(very) rarely", I didn't say "never" (even though I strongly suggested it ;)).

 

Plus, the show was created by McFarlane, someone who truly cares about musical scores, so it has that going in its favor.

 

Amazon will have to spend a lot of money on this new show, and the producers will try to find ways to spare some expenses. "The music?", they'll say, "Let's not worry about that. Does any of you remember the music from Game Of Thrones? No? Well, it doesn't stop that show from drawing huge numbers. Why spend our money on getting a proper composer and a full orchestra? That'd be ridiculous!"

 

If we get someone like Lorne Balfe I might just have to cut off my ears 

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And so it begins...
 

Quote

Amazon’s LOTR series also has the opportunity to correct a longtime criticism of Tolkien’s work: The Lord of the Rings is frequently held up as an example of fantasy literature’s overwhelming whiteness, and when it comes time for Amazon to cast its new series, there is absolutely no reason why a show about Hobbits, Elves, dwarves, orcs, and giant talking trees can’t cast actors of color.

 

 

Quote

Middle-earth’s race and gender issues are manifold, and if Amazon goes all-white on this cast, or only casts people of color as villains, I’ll be beyond frustrated. And if they don’t thoughtfully write more women into this thing, either by changing the genders of established characters or adding new ones, I will also be annoyed beyond measure.

 

 

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That's such a backwards approach to gender politics. Middle Earth is ostensibly continental Europe. When, in pre-modern times, were people of color found in that society?

 

The goal should be to do what best serves the story! Movies should not be politicized!

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@Jay

 

No doubt you'll notice I used a screenshot image to fully "quote" Nick1066 above. I'm curious how YOU would have achieved the same thing using only the forum tools, in mobile view. Because for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to quote both him and his embedded quotations. It seemed impossible.

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30 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

That's such a backwards approach to gender politics. Middle Earth is ostensibly continental Europe. When, in pre-modern times, were people of color found in that society?

 

The goal should be to do what best serves the story! Movies should not be politicized!

 

Amen!

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